Zoom Talk MN18 Honeyball Sutta-WbICo4YkPXE.en.vtt.txt

From: https://youtube.com/watch?v=WbICo4YkPXE

Context: Throughout this transcript, Bhante Vimalaramsi is the speaker unless otherwise indicated.

[Music]

i love the honey ball suta

[Music]

oh there you go jeanette now he's gonna

do it

oh that's great

so good afternoon to all

or whatever your time is

it's afternoon here so that's what i'm

going away

so we're going to do the honeyball suta

this is the suit that inspired

yananda to write a book called

concept and reality

and once i ran across that book i

couldn't put it down

and i've read it many times over

it is quite good

do we still have copies of that

no good concept in reality yes

we still have some copies of that if you

want once and i will send it to you

okay

thus have i heard on one occasion the

blessed one was living in the sakian

country at cape villa

to negrotus park cap de la vatu

is where the the uh

the bodhisatt uh grew up

he was born in cape villa too well

he wasn't he was conceived in capital

about two

but he was born on the way to another

town

so he was very popular

with all the people that lived in the

area

then when it was morning the blessed one

dressed taking his bowl and outer robe

went and get into capilovatu for alms

when he'd wandered for alms in capilla

vatu

and returned from its alms round after

taking his meal

he went to the great wood for the days

abiding

entering the great wood he sat down at

the root of a bulva

sapling for the days abiding

dan de penny adandapanti

was one of the minor rulers of the area

and he was very much into

the sakian way of or not the sake and

the

i can't think of it right now

the head of the of the

four different groups of people

anyway

he was very much opposed to anything

different than what had been being

taught

before the buddha came around

while walking and wandering for exercise

he also went to the great wood

when he'd entered the great wood he went

to the bowl the sapling where the

blessed one was

and exchanged greetings with him

witness courteous and amiable talk was

finished

this is something that's actually

not practiced in

in the west so much

is a little bit of small talk

with each other to find out how their

health is and if everything is going

along all right

that's one of the reasons why the

westerners have a

tendency to think of

the easterners as uh

not relevant in their in their speech

because they always ask how the how

their day is going and that sort of

thing

but it is it is very polite to use that

kind of speech

he stood at one side leaning on his

stick now because he was

a minor ruler of the area

he considered himself higher than the

buddha

and it's a show of disrespect to the

buddha

himself that he would keep his head

higher than the buddhas

and he asked what does the recluse

assert

what does he proclaim

friend i assert and proclaim

such a teaching

that one does not quarrel with anyone in

the world with its

gods its maras and its promise

in this generation with its recluses and

brahmanas

its princes and its people

[Music]

such a teaching

that preconceptions no more

underlie that brahman who abides

detached from sensual pleasures

without perplexity shorn of worry

free from craving for any kind of being

when this was uh dandapani the sakyan

without having any other explanation

behind it

he heard this and he saw well this is

absurd everybody argues

everybody has their own opinion

so he shook his head

wagged his tongue and raised his

eyebrows

until his forehead was plucker puckered

with three lines

then he departed leaning on a stick

probably

thinking this young whipper snapper

doesn't really

understand how the world works

when it was evening the blessed one rose

from his meditation

went to the negro went to negrota's park

where he sat down on a seat made ready

and told the monks what had taken place

then a certain monk asks the blessed one

venerable sir what is the teaching

that the blessed one asserts

whereby one does not quarrel with anyone

in the world with its gods its maras and

brahmas

in this generation with its recluses and

[Music]

brahmanas

the princes and its

people

and venerable sir how is it that

perception

no more underlies that brahman

who abides detached from sensual

pleasures

without perplexity shorn of worry

free from craving for any kind of being

so the buddha told him what he talked

about

and then a monk came back and said well

just by asking the questions

he got a deeper kind of

explanation

monk as to the source through

which perceptions and notions tinged by

mental proliferation

that means thinking about getting really

caught up in your thoughts and your

opinions

and your ideas of how everything works

how they beset a man

if nothing is found there to delight in

welcome and hold to

this is the end of the underlying

tendency to lust

the end of the underlying tendency

to hatred or aversion

the end of the underlying tendency to

craving

the end of the underlying tendency to

views

of the underlying tendency to doubt

of the underlying tendency to conceit

of the underlying tendency to desire

for being of the underlying tendency to

ignorance

this is the end of resorting to rods and

weapons

of quarrels brawls disputes

recrimination

malice and false speech

here these evil unwholesome states cease

without remainder

that is what the blessed one said having

said this

the sublime one rose from his seat

and went into his dwelling

then soon after the blessed one had gone

the monks considered now friends the

blessed one has

risen from the seed and gone into the

dwelling

after giving a summary in brief without

expounding the detailed meaning

so they made a major mistake

by not asking questions

now who will expound this

in detail than they considered the

venerable

maha kachana is praised by the teacher

and esteemed by his wise companions in

the holy life

he is capable of expounding the detailed

meaning

suppose we went to him and asked him the

meaning of this

then the monks went to the venerable

mahaka china and exchanged greetings

with him

when this courteous and amiable talk was

finished

they sat down at one side and told him

what had taken place adding

let the venerable mahaka-chana expound

to us

the venerable mahaka-chana replied

friends

it is though a man seeking heartwood

needing heartwood wandering in search of

heartwood

thought that heartwood should be sought

for among the branches and leaves of a

great tree standing possessed of

heartwood

after he had passed over the root in the

trunk

so it is with you venerable sirs

that you think i should be asked about

the meaning of this

after you pass the blessed one by

when you were face to face with the

teacher

for knowing the blessed one knows i like

this part of the passage it really

uh makes me appreciate the buddha in his

words

much more after reading this

seeing he sees his vision his knowledge

he is the dhamma

he is the holy one he is the sayer the

proclaimer

and elucidator of meaning

the giver of the deathless the lord of

the dhamma

the tatagata that was the time

when you should have asked the blessed

one the meaning

as he told you so you should have

remembered it

surely fred katrana

knowing the blessed one knows seeing he

sees

he is vision he is knowledge he

is the dhamma he is the holy one

he is the sayer the proclaimer

the elucidator of meaning

the giver of the deathless the lord of

the dhamma the tattagata

that was the time when we should have

asked the blessed one the meaning

as he told us so we should have

remembered it

yet the venerable chana is praised by

the teacher and esteemed by his wise

companions in the holy life

the venerable mahaka-chana is capable of

expounding the detailed meaning of this

summary

given by the blessed one without

expounding the detailed meaning

katrana he's in other suttas

and the only thing that he was willing

to talk about

was different aspects or see

ways of seeing the links of dependent

origination

he was really sold on that

which is sounds about right it should be

like that

monica china expounds it without finding

it troublesome

then listen friend and attend closely to

what i shall say yes friend

the monks who replied the venerable

mahaka chana said this

friend when the blessed one rose from

his seat

and went into his dwelling after giving

a summary

in brief without expounding the detailed

meaning that

is monk as to the source

through which perceptions and notions

tense with mental proliferation beset a

man this

basically is talking about

your own thoughts your own opinions your

own ideas

but it's all mental

[Music]

verbalization continual

thinking thinking thinking thinking

and convincing yourself that you're

right and somebody else is wrong

if nothing is found there to delight and

welcome and hold to

this is the end of the underlying

tendency to lust

the end of the underlying tendency to

aversion

the end of the underlying tendency to

craving the end of the underlying

tendency to views the

end of the underlying tendency to doubt

of the underlying tendency to conceit

of the underlying tendency to desire for

being

of the underlying tendency to craving

and clinging of the underlying tendency

to ignorance

this is the end of resorting to rods and

weapons

of quarrels brawls and disputes

recrimination malice and false speech

here these evil and wholesome state

cease

without remainder

i understand the detailed meaning of

this to be as follows

dependent on the eye and form's eye

consciousness

arises with the meeting of the three

there is eye contact

with eye contact as condition there is i

feeling what one feels

that one perceives what

one perceives that one craves

what one craves that one thinks about

what one thinks about that one mentally

proliferates

what one has mentally proliferated as

the source

perceptions and notion tense with mental

proliferation beset a man

with respect to past future

and present forms cognizable through the

eye

dependent on the ear and sounds ear

consciousness arises

with the meeting of the tree there is

air contact

with ear contact as condition there is

ear feeling

with here what one feels that one

perceives

what one perceives that one

craves what one craves

that one thinks about what

one thinks about that one mentally

proliferates

and this is your old habitual tendencies

and emotional states

so if you

learn how to use the six of ours

correctly

you won't get into that mental

proliferation

i just ran across something very

interesting

it's the difference between right effort

and right striving what is the

difference do you know

right effort is

using the six r's

right striving is when

it becomes the 6rs become automatic

you don't have to think about the 6rs

anymore they just automatically happen

that only occurs after using the 6rs

with right effort

many many many many times

[Music]

okay

dependent on the ear and sounds ear

consciousness arises

with the meaning of the three there is

ear contact with ear contact as

condition there is air feeling

what one feels that one perceives

what one perceives

that one craves

what one craves that one thinks about

what one thinks about that one

mentally proliferates

with what one has mentally proliferated

as the source

perceptions and notions tanged with

mental proliferation beset a man

with respect to the past future and

present

smells cognizable through the nose

[Music]

dependent on the tongue

and flavor's tongue consciousness arises

with the meeting of the three there is

tongue contact

with tongue contact as condition there

is tongue feeling

what one feels that one perceives

what one perceives that

one craves what one craves

that one thinks about

what one thinks about that one

mentally proliferates

with what one has mentally proliferated

as the source

perceptions and notion tends tend

tinged by mental proliferation beside a

man

with respect to the past future and

present

taste cognizable through the tongue

excuse me

well

dependent on the body intangibles

body consciousness arises

with the meaning of the three there is

body contact

with body contact as condition there is

body feeling

what one feels that one perceives

what one perceives that one craves

what one craves that one thinks about

what one thinks about that one mentally

proliferates with what one has mentally

proliferated as the source perceptions

and notion

tanged by mental proliferation beset a

man with respect

to the past future and present

tangibles cognizable through the body

dependent on mind and mind the objects

there is my

consciousness with the meeting of the

three

is mind contact

with mind contact as condition there is

mind feeling

what one feels that one perceives

what one perceives that one craves

what one craves that one thinks about

what one thinks about that one mentally

proliferates

with what one has mentally proliferated

as a source

perceptions and notion hinged by mental

proliferation beset of man

with respect to the past future

and present mind

objects cognizable by mine

okay when

there is the eye of form

and i consciousness it is

possible to point out the manifestation

mind or eye contact

when there is the manifestation of eye

contact it is possible to point out the

manifestation of i feeling

when there is the manifestation of i

feeling it is possible to point out the

manifestation of perception

now you see how all of these links

are together but they're not necessarily

named in the 12 links of dependent

origination

in the order that the 12 links are

consciousness which is a second

link is the potential

for consciousness to arise

but it still needs a condition for it

to arise like i ate in color and form

then eye consciousness arises

so this is quite a bit different than

just straight dependent origination

this works with your everyday life

this works with how the sense doors

actually do come into being and their

consciousness

arises and what we do with that

after it has occurred

so when we were talking about carmel

what

happened in the past

and what you do with what arises

in the present it dictates what's going

happen in the future

if you want your 6rs to become automatic

you need to recognize each one of the

cent stores

and six are them

because they're all impersonal you don't

ask them to come up these come up by

themselves

and what you do with what arises

dictates what happens in the future

so if you want your right effort to turn

into right striving

that means you have to recognize each

one of the sense doors

mostly while you're sitting it's hard to

do with your daily activities

but when you're sitting you recognize

each of these scent stores and six are

them because they are a disturbance

they're pulling your attention away from

your object to meditation

that's why it's a disturbance that's why

it is a hindrance

when there is the manifestation of

perception it is possible to point out

the manifestation of

craving when there's a manifestation of

craving it is possible to point out the

manifestation

of thinking when there is to

manifestation of thinking

it is possible to point out the

manifestation

of being beset by

perceptions and notion tense with mental

proliferation

getting caught up

and taking personally

whatever sense door there is

and we've been doing it for so many

lifetimes so

for so long we think that

this is actually the way things work

but that's why it takes a buddha to come

around

and to show us

how intricate what we

call mind is and what that consciousness

actually is and it's

part of an impersonal process it's not

part of a personal process

and every time you use the six r's

you start convincing yourself more and

that everything is impersonal

you're not in control of anything

everything

happens by itself

so it's an interesting

uh perception that you get

when you start looking at things in this

way

in the way of dependent origination

when there is the ear as sound in ear

consciousness

it is possible to point out the

manifestation of ear

contact when there

is the manifestation of ear contact it

is possible to point out the

manifestation of

ear feeling when there is a

manifestation of ear

feeling it is possible to point out the

manifestation of perception

when there is the manifestation of

perception it is possible to point out

the manifestation of craving

when there is the manifestation of

craving it is possible to point out the

manifestation of thinking

when there is the manifestation of

thinking it is possible to point out the

manifestation of

being beset by perceptions and notion

tend by then tinged

by mental proliferation

tinged by is an interesting kind of

phenomena

because tinged by is actually

saying colored by

it colors the way you see the world

around you

and the way you act around or

react as the case may be

when you use the six r's you start

responding with a wholesome mind

because you've let go of craving every

time you use the six r's you're letting

of craving and that gets

more and more clearer as you do it more

and it's one of the things that

helps the meditation to be fun

it actually

does

a wholesome action

and you're purifying your mind more and

as you do that you start going deeper

into your meditation

and you start understanding the process

of dependent origination more clearly

as you understand it more clearly

then

you become successful with your

meditation

now people that are successful with the

meditation i give them

a while to get used to it and then i'll

ask them if they want to start teaching

that is the requirement

for teaching being

successful with the practice

yourself

too many times there are people that

claim to be teachers that don't

truly understand what the buddha is

talking about

but they like the idea and the

pride-filled idea

of i'm a teacher i'm something

special and you have to respect me

the thing is you gain respect

as you teach the buddhist teaching

a lot of people have a lot of respect

for me because

of my habit

of reading from the suttas themselves

so you know that it's not coming from me

it's not my

words and i don't claim them to be

my words they happen

all on their own

and the respect gained by that the

understanding that people

have is amazing

now when i first started out i was

teaching straight

vipassana because that's what i knew

and there was always some disrespect

that was going around oh you don't know

what you're saying you make a mistake

here and there

but as i started

reading the suttas and this i am forever

beholding to

venerable puniti

who guided me to start reading the

suttas

i would give a retreat and all of a

sudden

everybody would be benefiting from the

dhamma talks in a way that their

meditation

went deeper faster than i'd ever

expected

i couldn't believe how fast people were

understanding

and that's just from going

to well i'm going to freelance my talks

to going to i'm going to read you

what the buddha said now if i was a

if i was a very young monk

i actually would spend my time

memorizing

each one of those sutas so that i could

recite them at any time

but because i was an old man when i

became a monk

i have to read them

if you're successful with your

meditation

if you follow the directions like

they're given in the suttas

and the

directions that i give

in a retreat

uh you will be successful

now a lot of people have this idea they

want to be

a teacher but they just want the

prestige of being a teacher

and that's not it

that's uh

prestige who cares

people say oh but monty you're so

popular

so many people know you

i don't care i honestly

don't care

because it is not my teaching i can't

take

credit for it it's the buddha's teaching

and that honor and respect should go to

the buddha

let's see we did

when there is the nose and odors

and nose consciousness arises

it is possible to point out the

manifestation of nose contact

when there's a manifestation of nose

contact

it is possible to point out the

manifestation of nose feeling

when there is the manifestation of nose

feeling it is possible to point out the

manifestation of perception

when there is a manifestation of

perception it is possible to point out

the manifestation of craving

when there is a manifestation of craving

it's possible to point out the

manifestation of thinking

right now we're talking about

your observations while you're in the

lower

janus the first genre to the fourth

jhana

then you get to the mental realm

[Music]

there is no manifestation of the eyes or

ears unless there is contact

in other words you don't see anything if

your eyes are closed

if there is contact with the nose

or the tongue or the body

in any way or the ear

if there is contact there is a

manifestation of this consciousness

if there is no contact

and you are in a mental realm

where there is no more body

then you are watching

more and more closely the subtle

nature of everything

you're starting to see more and more

clearly

how all of this actually does work

and you start believing that this is the

way it works

and it's not made up

it's the way it actually is

and this is how your face

becomes strong from your direct

personal experience

now it's real interesting because i tell

people

over and over again you

are your own teacher you have to have

the direct experience

to see how this kind of stuff works

before you're going to be able to teach

it to anyone else

when you see things as they actually are

you wind up having so much confidence

that it's amazing

and that confidence pulls over into the

way that you do the reading or the

explaining of the suttas

so if people are really ready to try and

follow the way you're talking

then it is pretty amazing

to be able to see the progress

that your students will make

and it all comes back from

listening to the suttas practicing the

way the buddha is said to practice

and the way the teacher

says to practice because of the direct

experience that they have

that is how you get to be a teacher

and you teach by example

more than you're talking

and trying to convince somebody of

something

when there is the manifestation of

craving

then it is possible to point out the

manifestation of thinking

when there's the manifestation of

thinking

it is possible to point out the

manifestation of

being beset by perceptions and notion

tanged by mental proliferation

colored by your mental proliferation

and what you want to be doing is going

to a state

where you have stronger and stronger

balance of mind where you have stronger

and stronger

equanimity

david

i just ran out of water

[Music]

when there is the town in flavors into

unconsciousness it is possible to point

out the manifestation of tongue

contact when there is a manifestation of

tongue contact it is possible to point

out the manifestation of

tongue feeling when there's a

manifestation of tongue

feeling it is possible to point out the

manifestation of perception

when there is a manifestation of

perception it is possible to point out

the manifestation of craving

when there is a manifestation of craving

it is possible to point out the

manifestation of thinking

when there is a manifestation of

thinking it is possible

to point out the manifestation

of being beset by perceptions

and notions tinged with mental

proliferation

when there is the body intangibles and

body consciousness it is possible to

point out the manifestation of body

contact

when there is a manifestation of body

contact it is possible to point out to

manifestation of body feeling

when there is a manifestation of body

feeling

it is possible to point out the

manifestation of perception

when there's a manifestation of

perception it is possible to point out

the manifestation of

craving when there's a manifestation of

craving it is possible to point out the

manifestation of thinking

when there's the manifestation of

thinking it is possible to point out the

manifestation of

being beset

by perceptions and notions

tinged by mental proliferation

when there is mind and mind objects mind

consciousness arises

it is possible to point out the

manifestation of mind contact

when there's manifestation of mind

contact

it is possible to point out the

manifestation of mind feeling

when there is a manifestation of mind

feeling it is possible to point out the

manifestation of perception

when there is a manifestation of

perception

it is possible to point out the

manifestation of craving

when there's a manifestation of craving

it is possible to point out the

manifestation of thinking

when there is a manifestation of

thinking it is possible to point out the

manifestation of being beset

by perceptions and notion tends by

mental

proliferation

now we're getting into the mental realm

and it says when there is no

i no forms no i consciousness

it is impossible to point out the

manifestation of

eye contact if that

consciousness can't arise because

you're in a mental state and you're

staying

with the quiet mind

this is a whole different ball game

when you're in this state it's important

for you to understand

that

your mind is very pure

at that time there is no craving

there is no disturbance

pulling you away there is no hindrance

your mind is just quiet

this is where you purify your mind the

most

when you get into neither perception or

non-perception it's

leading to

nibana the cessation of perception

feeling and consciousness and

nibana itself which is an undescribable

when there is no manifestation

of i of eye

contact it is impossible to point out

the

manifestation of eye feeling of course

all of those things

follow it's impossible to point these

things out because they don't arise

and if they do arise then

there's something that is pulling your

attention

to it

quite often uh especially in

[Music]

malaysia and indonesia i have a lot of

students that can get

to neither perception or non-perception

but they get

caught up in their thinking and they

keep making a big deal

out of that not realizing that they

are causing themselves suffering

so i've cut the six r's down

to saying if you

see this kind of thing arising and

pulling your attention away

relax

allow it to be there by itself don't

follow it

the second step of right effort

letting the distraction

be there by itself without putting your

attention

on it at all

and when you do that then it's easy

to relax at tension and tightness caused

by that distraction

so you relax

and come back to the quiet mind come

back to your object the meditation

stay with your object to meditations

long as you can

which when you get to this state

can be quite long it can be 20 minutes

30 minutes even

an hour i have one student that

he had a five hour sit and i asked him

how many times his mind wandered away

and he said no it was just five hours

of staying with

his quiet mind

so it is possible to do that

it is rare that somebody can do it for

that long i have to say but

he worked at it he worked at it for

quite a few years before he was able to

do that

but i tell you just as a goal that you

can

try for yourself eventually

sitting with that quiet mind is very

very

important and necessary

when there's no manifestation

i forgot what the scent story was uh

was it a higher ear okay okay

i feeling it is impossible to point out

the manifestation of perception

when there's no manifestation of

perception it is impossible to point out

the manifestation of craving

see if there is no disturbance at

all then

it's not going to come up it's not going

to cause you

any kind of problem

okay and this is important

to realize

you don't want to use the 6rs

as some kind of a stick to beat away

your disturbance that's not what it's

about

the whole reason for the six hours

is to let go of craving

craving is the source of all suffering

so the more you use the six arms and

let go of the disturbance without

keeping your attention on it

the purer your mind becomes the more

balanced your mind becomes the quieter

your mind becomes

so it's an interesting process and

it does turn out to be quite fun as

you learn how to do it yourself

when there's no manifestation of

craving then it is impossible

to point out the manifestation of

thinking

if craving doesn't arise thinking won't

arise

if thinking won't arise mental

proliferation won't arise

if mental proliferation doesn't arise

the birth of action doesn't arise

if the birth of action doesn't arise

guess what

aging and death sorrow lamentation

pain grief and despair will not arise

and when it happens like that

guess what

you have experienced nirvana

there's an awful lot of people that are

uh doubtful

about being able to attain nibbana in

this time but

most of that occurs

because

of what they heard from their teacher

and their teacher hasn't been practicing

quite the same way in in the

suttas as is necessary for you to

experience

this so they have doubts on their own

and in the west

it's brought to the attention of a lot

people that you're not supposed to talk

about your spiritual

experiences with anybody but a teacher

and they get that idea because in

the roles of vinnia monks

don't talk about that sort of thing with

uh with laymen

because they won't understand

if i know somebody is an onigami or i

know

that they are very advanced

and i have questions for them

then we discuss that kind of thing

[Music]

but i would never do that with

layman

and a lot of people they they have all

kinds of claims for me

i must be an arahat because they've been

a monk for

so long well i'll tell you

i spent 12 years in asia looking for an

arahat and i never found one and i

certainly

am not one

so it's a

personal

experience for me

what difference does it make if i'm a

soda pan arden and

saktagami or onigami

what difference does that make to you

is that going to help your practice get

better

well i have not found that to be the

case

ever but a lot of the teaching

that i give is by example

okay

when there is no nose

no odors no

nose consciousness it is impossible to

point out the manifestation of

nose contact makes sense doesn't it

when there is no manifestation of nose

contact

it is impossible to point out the

manifestation of nose feeling

well all of this makes perfect sense

because this is the way it works if

there

is no disturbance at the

the nose door

then how can there be a consciousness

there's not going to be any smell

because there's nothing

causing it

and that is getting into

the mental realms

when there's no manifestation of nose

feeling

it is impossible to point out the

manifestation of perception

there's nothing to perceive there's no

contact there is not going to be

any perception at all

that because there no feeling arises

when there's no manifestation of

perception it is impossible to point out

the manifestation of craving

so if there's no perception of anything

why would craving arise just to be

annoying

just to be it needs to have

a condition before it will

occur

okay when there's

no manifestation of cravings there's no

manifestation of thinking

it is impossible to point out the

manifestation of being beset by

perceptions and notion tense by mental

proliferation

and this goes through all the sensors

now when the blessed one rose from his

seat

and went into his dwelling after giving

a summary and

brief without expounding a detailed

meaning

that is monks as to the source through

which

perceptions and notion tinged by mental

proliferation said a man

[Music]

if nothing is found there to delight in

it welcome it

and hold to it this is the end of the

underlying tendency lust

of the underlying tendency to aversion

of the underlying tendency to craving

of the underlying tendency to conceit

of the underlying tendency to desire for

being

of the underlying tendency to ignorance

this is the end of resorting to rods and

weapons of quarrels brawls

disputes recrimination and malice

and false speech

here these evil unwholesome states cease

without

remainder i understand the detailed

meaning

of this summary to be thus now

friends if you wish go to the blessed

one ask him about the meaning of this

as the blessed one explains it to you

so you should remember it

then the monks having delighted and

rejoiced

in the venerable mahaka-chana's words

rose from their seats and went to the

blessed one

after paying homage to him they sat down

at one side and told the blessed one

all that had taken place after he left

adding then venerable sir

we went to the venerable machichanna

and he expounded the meaning to us

with these terms statements and phrases

mahaka chana is wise monks mahaka

has great wisdom if you'd asked me

the meaning of this i would have

explained it to you in the same way

that mahakatrana has explained it

such as the meaning of this and so you

should remember it

now when this was said the venerable

ananda

said to the blessed one venerable sir

just as if a man exhausted by hunger

and weakness came upon a honey ball

in the course of eating it

he would find a sweet delectable flavor

so too venerable sir any able-bodied

person in the course of scrutinizing

with wisdom

the meaning of this discourse on adama

would find satisfaction and confidence

of mind

venerable sir what's the name of the

discourse on the dhamma

as to that ananda you may

remember this discourse on the dhamma as

the honey ball

discourse because it is so sweet

that is what the blessed one said none

venerable and not that was satisfied and

delighted in the blessed one's words

so i really like this suta because it

spells out exactly

what to expect with your meditation

and how to really see the

impersonal nature of everything

that's good i very much appreciate it

so do you have any questions

yeah can you hear me good afternoon

thank you for your talk

yes um i'm just struggling at

some of the concepts to make sure i

understand them and

where the suitor reads what one feels

one perceives for me perception

i have interpreted that as a mind object

it's

it's our mind a thought about what an

object is

so is that incorrect and if so what

actually is a part of the mind that

names the feeling

okay perception and feeling are always

conjoined they're always together

a happy feeling arises

automatically your mind says oh that's

happy

but that's not a thought that's

our mind thinking that we're happy that

isn't a thought

it is as a thought object it is a

thought that

comes up it is a kind of thought

it's an observation thought

okay it seems to me that then we're

having a

when a thought comes up we have a mind

contract

sorry well

when that mind contact occurs perception

arises right after that

they are conjoined they are always not

disjoined

but feeling comes up after the contact

so i'm just trying to get clear where

the

perception arises you just said it

arising after

feeling

okay it's the part of the mind that

names it

pleasant painful neither painful or

pleasant

this is where our conceptual thinking

begins with perception

but it and it is a mind

object perception

it is a mind object

i don't quite know what you're talking

about here

you're trying to make it as something

separate and it's not

okay it is conjoined with feeling

it is the part of the mind that names

that feeling as pleasant painful neither

painful nor pleasant

okay now let's the next question then is

on the same thing when we have

craving what one craves

one thinks about is thinking about

right it is that the same as clinging or

is that another step

yeah i'm just putting this in the order

of clinging it is clean

and the mental proliferation

is bava

is right behind clinging

and that's where all of your emotional

ideas and thoughts and wants to control

your feeling with your thoughts

in other words that's where you really

are taking on heavily

the identification of this is my feeling

this is me

thank you okay

hello hello uh the extension to the same

question

uh can we replace clinging with

thinking always

yeah but the clinging is is

is more than just that

it's more than just thinking it's where

it really becomes cemented in

of taking something personally

that's where it gets really strong

it starts with craving i am

but it gets stronger when you have

thoughts opinions ideas

concepts things like that

and you take them personally

then you get into your emotional love

um trying to

come up with excuses why this or that

worked and didn't work

but it's all part of the ego game

of i am that

thank you

thank you okay monte

hey hey i have a question

okay i have a question about contact

and the way i understand it it's like

you have say an ear and then

there's a sound and i guess they

they and then there's a consciousness

and it's like they all

touch in that moment when they

touch that's contact is that right

that is contact okay

all right that's what i'm thinking about

okay

i'm just trying to put it together

yeah there are some people that have

this weird belief

that they are

in control of the contact

and the feeling and

that they can go beyond

that but this is all part

of the physical process that we go

through

we go from the physical into the mental

but then you have the

dhammapada verse that says mind is a

forerunner of all states

that doesn't necessarily mean thinking

that means

observing

it is the start

of conditioned things

okay

that's interesting i don't totally

understand everything you said

but you have to listen to it a few times

for it to really work

okay but i

i highly recommend getting a copy of

uh concept and reality

jana not venerable janando was

brilliant in a way

that he understood

uh well concepts and reality

and what we call concepts are our

opinions thoughts and ideas

hopes and wishes for things to be in a

particular way

but the reality is this is the way that

it works

and as you see that more and more

clearly

in your own practice as you start

realizing

it's not just 6r and carry on

but it's deeply understanding the

process

as you get more and more clear in that

the easier it is to

not get involved in the content of your

thinking

but allow it to be there by itself

with a relaxed craving free mind

okay yes that sounds nice

well but you got to teach yourself this

way that's the thing

yes

thank you okay so keep your practice

going daily

and have fun

appreciate the

understanding that you get and

play with that

the more fun you can have with your

practice

the easier it is

to be successful

and i truly understand that

because i had 20 years of not having fun

with the practice

so it's it's quite a bit easier now

well i like having fun so i'll try

all right you'll find your mindfulness

gets

really a lot sharper as you have fun

with everything

yes sir okay

any other question hi bunting

uh hello it's been a few weeks since

since i was here last so i i hope you've

been well i hope

everything's going well um

i have a few uh questions

um so i guess the most important

question

is uh in the last few weeks i've

uh felt that my practice is not

has not been going so well and i still

have good meditations i just

some sometimes feel the urge to just

leave after a certain amount

of time i'm not able to sit for as long

as i used to

um i i know that i'm supposed to use

the six hours yeah but uh it just

feels like i'm fighting with it at some

point

and i just wonder if you have any advice

about

uh about that

well when you first start out that's the

hardest

part of the meditation it gets

easier as you

[Music]

start teaching yourself how to use the

six hours properly because

that's the way you do it

don't say

each one of the six r's

do what the six r says

okay so you you'll see you'll

recognize that your mind is distracted

if you have a lot of distractions

ask your intuition

to find out what is the cause

of all of this mental mental

proliferation what's the

cause of all of these distractions

your intuition will guide you and

show you where you're making a mistake

and how to overcome it

okay but you have to develop

one thing and it's one of the harder

things to develop

and that is patience

if your mind tells you oh i want to get

up just

let it be no i'll sit here for another

10 minutes

okay

and it will get easier as you teach your

mind but right now your mind is like a

mad monkey it's jumping all over the

place

yep and don't fight it

don't tell yourself you shouldn't be

like that because

that's the way you are that's the truth

so laugh with it and have fun with it

don't criticize yourself and be hard on

yourself

the more you smile the more

you laugh the more you have

fun with life

the easier your sitting meditation will

become

right so i want you to smile more

you're being too serious

you're trying to accomplish something

there's nothing to accomplish but having

a happy mind

so smile into that and laugh with

yourself when you get serious

okay okay i guess that's the

that's the one thing that i haven't been

able to

uh to implement in my own life

well because we don't teach ourselves

that way for the first however many

years you've been alive yeah you've

taught to be

serious well

okay let's start a new habit

let's smile let's have fun

okay okay

uh bunty just a couple more questions

i'll try to be as

brief as i can okay

uh so um when when one practices

mata and karana and in the way that you

and

uh and i was reminded as you said of of

the late

uh great vulnerable uh punnerji who is

also a hero of mine

um but uh i aren't

uh so when you practice mata and karuna

aren't those

cravings as well they're just not for

oneself they're

no that's you're purifying your mind

there's no craving and wholesome

i see but uh the idea that i

want all beings to be happy isn't that a

desire isn't that a great

i want them to be happy just wish them

happiness

okay there's no i

in there there's just a

a wishing for all beings

to be free and happy

and uplifted

[Music]

it's just a wish it's not a craving kind

of wish

it's just you're not demanding

that all beings be happy

you're wishing that

and that helps your mind to be uplifted

uh would you agree with the translation

of the word mother modita

as appreciative joy or do you have a

different i don't really like those kind

of definitions

because they go outside of mind

well i appreciate uh the success that my

father

had or some other relative or some other

person

but i call it simply joy

because it is a mental state

right

and i really don't like those

definitions

sympathetic joy sympathy

because somebody's experiencing joy

no no no no

altruistic well

we're still looking at someone outside

of yourself

and this practice is about going

deeper into yourself

to see where your old habits of

identifying with this and that happen

[Music]

do you see what i'm saying actually

i think okay i think i need more uh more

experience

to completely understand well

you just practice the loving kindness by

itself

you will develop the ability

to go into compassion into joy

into equanimity and beyond

but you have to have patience and you

have to have a sense of fun

about yourself rather than criticize

yourself okay

uh just one final question then i'll

uh i'll reveal um so i started reading

the

angutara nikaya today uh and

i honestly i've seen a couple of things

here that

kind of bother me a little bit so i'm

going to ask you about them

okay so as long as i stayed in the machi

monika

i was fine but uh so here uh

for example one thing that it says in

the book of the ones

is um i'm quoting it's impossible and

inconceivable that a woman could be

an arahant who is a perfectly

enlightened buddha

uh wheel turning monarch position of

sakha mara position of drama etc there's

no possibility

but it's possible that a man could

occupy the position of drama there is

such a possibility

this bothers me because

because uh to be equal between men and

women they're not

women have their own function

and they are

different from men let's say you go out

into the forest

and you want to sit in meditation

if a woman goes out into the forest

quite often they get attacked by

beasts because their odor

is different than men's

they are different they have different

functions

so i know this

women's equality and all of this kind of

stuff is really

important but it doesn't

happen in a real world in exactly the

same way

as they would like it to happen

and also you have to understand

that the brahmanas

right after the buddha died about 250

years after the buddha died

the brahman started taking over

the robes for monks

and they started changing a lot of

the suttas they started changing them

one of the suit is that it says that a

woman could

never become a leader of

a country and

whoops how many women leaders of country

are there

that is just the brahmana prejudice

now the further the text went away

from the actual buddha's teaching

the more uh confusion

and wrong thinking there is that's being

added into it

and it hasn't been cleared out all the

way even though there has been buddhist

councils that have tried to clear out

the mistakes there's still mistakes that

are made

but women have a different kind of body

they have a different kind of

outlook than men

and that's the truth whether you like it

or not

oh women can be arahats they just cannot

be buddhas

all right yeah

yeah and i i particularly point out that

women can be our

odds you know and some of the suttas

that i give

because they they were brilliant in a

lot of ways

but they're different

and would you agree that the difference

between an

arahant and a buddha is not limited only

the fact that they delayed um entering

uh nibana but also that buddha has

knowledge beyond

[Music]

simply that

the way that uh it's been described to

is that you have a bottle of whiskey and

you pour the whiskey

out you still have smell of whiskey

but and that would be like the the

arahats after the buddha

but the one that the buddha had it's

been

scoured out so that there's absolutely

no smell no imperfection in that

bottle

yeah and and also uh perhaps

knowledge of other things such as the

knowledge of previous er

eons and so on but

well i have friends that uh

they can uh

see an eon in their own practice

they developed uh doing past

lives and now

now they see past and and future in some

ways

the future is really difficult because

it's always changing

and depending on conditions

but she could remember

i i i've run across people

and they they do past life regression

and i can remember 182

different past lifetimes fine

but that's not very many

uh how many times have we been

actually reborn

so you can

you're reborn somebody it gave me a

number

i don't know where the number came from

whether it's really true or not

but one eon is equivalent to

one million lifetimes

that's a lot a lot of lifetimes and to

be able

to recall that at will

different lifetimes is a remarkable

ability

but a lot of people when they get into

past lifetimes

oh i want to remember all these past

lifetimes

they get kind of bored with it after a

while because it's all more of the same

it's uh

there's there's no surprises we've all

done

really bad things and we've all done

really good things

and

we keep coming around because we

have identified with the bad things and

the good things and taking them

personally and that's what karma is all

about

but with this practice

you start developing more and more

wholesome

nature in your mind

you stop taking things so personally and

you start

following the precepts without breaking

them and things like that

the more you do that

the more pure your mind becomes and

that's what allows you to get off of the

wheel of samsara

the wheel of birth and death

okay you very much banter

okay

anybody else i may have a question one

thing

okay um that days

that i have quite

strong memories from my early childhood

and my grandparents are very vivid

there of course they passed away

more than 50 almost 50 years ago

but somehow you know especially when i

practice when i do