Zoom Talk MN 22 Simile of the Snake -with Delson Armstrong-5sXFYQrHHyE.en.vtt.txt

From: https://youtube.com/watch?v=5sXFYQrHHyE

Context: Throughout this transcript, Bhante Vimalaramsi is the speaker unless otherwise indicated.

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[Applause]

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[Applause]

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right so this is majaminikaya 22

it's the

allah

a simile of the snake

that's have i heard on one occasion the

blessed one was living at salvati

in jethro's grove another pindicus park

now on that occasion a pernicious view

had arisen in a bike named arvita

formerly of the vulture killers thus

oh he had this view thus

as i understand the dhamma taught by the

blessed one

those things called obstructions by the

blessed one are not able to obstruct one

who engages in them

that's a pretty bad view because what

he's saying is when he talks about

obstructions he's talking about sensual

pleasures

and what he's saying is

those sensual pleasures

won't obstruct somebody who engages

in them

with the intention or his intention is

that

i can go ahead and indulge in sensual

pleasures and it's not going to affect

me i'm not going to be affected by them

and

i'm not going to attach to them or i'm

not going to have aversion to them

but having that kind of a view

as we'll see is a pernicious view

because

it can cause a person to act on their

underlying tendencies

and therefore cause the arising of

craving clinging being and so on

because what we have to understand is

that the feeling whether it's painful

pleasant or neutral

is just a feeling it's how you react to

the feeling which will convey whether

there will be

uh any kind of craving or clinging

but here this person arita is under the

idea or under the impression that if he

engages with them

makes it

makes it something more than their they

are which is just an impersonal feeling

and engages with them by taking them

personally it's not going to affect him

but we'll see what goes on

several bikus having heard about this

went to the biku arita and asked him

friend arita is it true that such a

pernicious view has arisen in you

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exactly so friends as i understand the

dhamma taught by the blessed one

those things called obstructions by the

blessed one are not able to obstruct one

who engages in them

then these beakers desiring to detach

him from that pernicious view pressed

and questioned and cross questioned him

thus

friend aretha do not say so do not

misrepresent the blessed one

it is not good to misrepresent the

blessed one the blessed one would not

speak thus or in many ways the blessed

one has stated how obstructive things

are obstructions

and how they are able to obstruct one

who engages in them

the blessed one has stated that sensual

pro sensual pleasures provide little

gratification

much suffering and despair

and that the danger in them is still

with the simile of the snake with the

simile of the piece of meat with the

simile of the grass torch

with the simile of the pit of coals

with the simile of the dream

with the simile of the borrowed goods

with the simile of the fruits on a tree

with the simile of the butcher's knife

and block with the simile of the sword

stake

and

with the simile of the snake's head the

blessed one has stated that sensual

pleasures provide little gratification

much suffering and despair

and that the danger in them is still

so i was just going through these

similes and the first seven similes with

the simile of the skeleton with the

simile of the piece of meat

the simile of the grass torch the pit of

coals of the dream

of borrowed goods and the fruits on a

tree

these can be found in majminikaya 54

and the buddha goes through each of them

to explain

how they are in relation to sensual

pleasures

now if i remember correctly the

butcher's uh knife and block and the one

with the sword stake in the snake's head

is probably in the

the suit that right after this which is

the ant hill suit though but we'll go

through it a little by little

yet although pressed and questioned and

crossed questioned by those beakers in

this weighing beku arita formerly of the

vulture killers

still obstinately adhere to that

pernicious view and continue to insist

upon it

since the bikus were unable to detach

him from that pernicious view they went

to the blessed one and after paying

homage to him they sat down at one side

and told him all that had occurred

adding

venerable sir since we could not detach

the biku arita formerly of the vulture

killers from this pernicious view

we have reported this matter to the

blessed one

then the blessed one addressed a certain

bee kudus kambiku tell the biku aretha

formerly of the vulture killers in my

name

that the teacher calls him

yes venerable sir he replied

and he went to the beaker arita and told

him

the teacher calls you friend arita

yes friend he replied and he went to the

blessed one and after paying homage to

him sat down at one side

the blessed one then asked him arita

is it true that the pernicious following

pernicious view has arisen in you

as i understand the dhamma taught by the

blessed one those things called

obstructions by the blessed one

are not able to obstruct one who engages

in them

exactly so venerable sir as i understand

the dharma taught by the blessed one

those things called obstructions by the

blessed one are not able to obstruct one

who engages them

misguided men to whom have you ever

known me to teach the dharma in that way

misguided man have i not stated in many

ways how obstructive things are

obstructions and how they are able to

obstruct one who engages in them

i have stated that

sensual pleasures provide little

gratification

much suffering and despair

and that the danger in them is still

with the simile of the skeleton with the

simile of the piece of meat with the

simile of the grass torch with the

simile of the pit of coals with the

simile of the dream

with the simile of the borrowed goods

with the simile of fruits on a tree with

the simile of the butcher's knife and

block and with the simile of the sword

stake and the simile of the snake's head

i have stated that sensual pleasures

provide little gratification

much suffering and despair and that the

danger in them is still more

but you misguided man by your own grasp

have misrepresented us

injured yourself and stored up much

demerit

for this will lead to your harm and

suffering for a long time

so this whole process of dressing down

narita in this way is very similar to

majuminikaya 38 where sati son of a

fisherman has that view that

consciousness is

unified and one consciousness that

transmigrates from one

one lifetime to the next uh so this is

very similar in in terms of the way it's

structured but here we are talking about

aretha formerly of the vulture killers

as he's known

then the blessed one addressed the bikus

das bikus what do you think

has this biku arita formerly of the

vulture killers kindle even a spark of

wisdom

in this dhamma and discipline

how could he venerable sir no venerable

sir when this was said the biku aretha

formerly of the vulture killers

sat silent dismayed with shoulders

drooping and head down

glum and without response

then knowing this the blessed one told

him misguided man you will be recognized

by your own pernicious view i shall

question the beakers on this matter

then the blessed one addressed the

because thus

because do you understand the dhamma

taught by me

as this bhikkhu or aretha formerly of

the vulture killers does when by his

wrong grasp he misrepresents us injures

himself and stores up much to merit

no venerable sir

or in many ways the blessed one has

stated how obstructive things are

obstructions and how they are able to

obstruct one who engages in them

the blessed one has stated that sensual

pleasures provide little gratification

much suffering and despair and that the

danger in them is still more

with the simile of the skeleton with the

simile of the snake's head and so on

the blessed one has stated

that the danger in them is still more

good because

it is good that you understand the

dhamma taught by me thus

or in many ways i have stated how

obstructive things are obstructions and

how they are able to obstruct one who

engages in them

i have stated that sensual pleasures

provide little gratification

much suffering and despair and that the

danger in them is still more

with the simile of the skeleton and so

on i have stated that the danger in them

is still more

but this biku aretha formerly of the

vulture killers

by his wrong grasp misrepresents us

injures himself and stores up much

demerit

or this will lead to this misguided

man's harm and suffering for a long time

because that one who that one can engage

in sensual pleasures without sensual

desires

without perceptions of sensual desires

without thoughts of sensual desire

that is impossible

so let's break that down he says that

one can engage in sensual pleasures

without sensual desires

without perception of sensual desire

without thoughts

of sensual desire that is impossible

so we understand from the scope of

dependent origination that feeling

whether it's painful pleasant or neutral

can give rise to craving

but that is only if you engage in those

experiences and when we say engage we're

being very specific here what we're

saying is

taking that feeling that sensual

experience as being personal

once you start taking it personal

there is craving liable to arise

there is a version liable to arise there

is further identification with that

experience

and that brings about the perceptions

of that craving aversion

or identification

and so

there will be thoughts of that sensual

desire in the form of clinging this is

really what the buddha is talking about

when you take a feeling to be personal

whatever feeling it might be

if you take it to be personal then you

are no longer having mindfulness of it

you're taking it personal you're taking

it as me mine or myself

and in doing so

you bring up conceit you bring up

ignorance you bring up craving and

therefore there is the thoughts

and when you talk about thoughts or

thinking

that process of thinking happens in the

link of clinging

which starts the ideation and

conceptualization process of why it is

that you like what you like or why it is

what you don't like is what you don't

like and so on and so forth

now we're going to get into the simile

of the snake

before we do what's also important to

understand is sensual desire or sensual

central pleasures as we are

we're reading about

this is really in regards to

the five physical senses but that calls

the five physical senses the

the chords of sensual pleasures

but it's through the mind through the

mental realm that you experience higher

pleasures higher mental good feelings

which come in the form of love and

kindness for example or compassion or

joy or equanimity and ultimately give

you the experience of the factors of the

jhanas the more somebody is able to do

this the more somebody actually really

is able to master the janas

and experience the jhanas in such a way

that they will

see central pleasures

the less uh

they'll see central pleasures in a way

that is

less interesting

the more they're in ghana the less the

central pleasures become interesting and

eventually

you know there's a level of

disenchantment with sensual experiences

that

they no longer are engaged with as me

mine or myself so that means the

collectedness has given rise

to an experience of disenchantment and

that this enchantment continues to

inform the mindfulness in every moment

when there is an experience so that

somebody is aware of the three

characteristics of existence of that

experience

meaning that experience is impermanent

and not worth holding on to and

therefore not me mine or myself when

that happens

a person does not react

towards the underlying tendency towards

aversion or craving or ignorance or any

of the other

seven underlying

tendencies

when that happens they won't have

craving and therefore they won't have

clinging being and the rest of suffering

the birth of action and suffering and so

dear because some misguided men learned

the dharma discourses stanzas exposition

versus exclamations sayings birth

stories marvels and answers to questions

but having learned the dharma they do

not examine the meaning of those

teachings

with wisdom

not examining the meaning of those

teachings with wisdom they do not gain a

reflective acceptance of them instead

they learn the dhamma only for the sake

of criticizing others and for winning in

debates and they do not experience the

good for the sake of which they learn

the dhamma

those teachings being wrongly grasped by

them

and used to their harm and suffering for

a long time why is that

because of the wrong grasp of those

teachings

suppose a man needing a snake seeking

the snake wandering in search of a snake

the eyelash name and breast oil

oils or its tail

it would turn back on him and bite his

hand or his arm or because one of his

limbs

and because of that he would come to

death or deadly surf suffering

why is that because of this wrong grasp

of the snake

so to hear some misguided men learn the

dharma and so on

because of

and they're not able to grasp it because

of the wrong grasp of those teachings

so really what this is pointing out to

is the fact that you might go to the

suda's you might go to the jataka tales

you might go to the commentaries and

other places

and read

and then that's really just intellectual

knowledge that's really just book

learning

and that can give rise to clinging to

views as well and we're not

is to

having seen

the dhamma experience the dhamma and

still having some

amount of clinging to the dharma in the

form of the

in the form of seeing the dhamma as

being me mine or myself this is what

happens with the anagami

they take the dhamma and they make it

something more

than just

just an experience to be able to let go

of suffering and so there's reverence

for the dharma and so on you look at in

the pure abodes all of the anagamis are

the pure boats they have wonderful

reverence for the wonderful reverence

for the dhamma wonderful reverence for

the sangha but they're still attached to

the dharma as a thing as a thing to be

attached to so that's one level of

misunderstanding and wrong level of

grasping to to the teachings

but ultimately you go from wrong view to

right view to clinging to no views

in other words you're no longer even

identified with the understanding of

dependent origination or the experience

of the dhamma

but here what the buddha is specifically

talking about is people who read the

suttas without any kind of

experience as such in other words they

will read the sutas and interpret it in

a certain way for the sake of having

critical thinking and debates and things

like that this happened a lot in ancient

india where people would go through the

different vedas and different upanishads

and they would actually have debates and

they thought it was for the welfare for

the welfare of the people because people

would learn from those debates

but some of those debates became um

basically grounds for clinging to

certain views there was even a story of

how there was a debate that went on

where if somebody lost that debate they

would have to then toss themselves into

the river and so

all of these things for the sake of just

trying to prove i'm right and you're

wrong and all of these things they

continue to strengthen the clinging of

wrong to to the right view they continue

this

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you're taking the dhamma as something

you have to be proven you're taking the

dharma as something that needs to be

debated about rather than experienced

and as a tool to let go of suffering and

see suffering altogether

so then the buddha says here because

some clansmen learn the dharma and

discourse

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examine the meaning of those teachings

with wisdom

examining the meaning of those teachings

with wisdom they gain a reflective

acceptance of them they do not learn the

dhamma for the sake of criticizing

others and for winning in debates and

they experience the good for the sake of

which they learned the dhamma

those teachings being rightly grasped by

them conduce to their welfare and

happiness for a long time

why is that because of the right grasp

of those teachings

suppose a man eating a snake seeking a

snake

wandering in search of a snake saw a

large snake and caught it swiftly with a

cleft stick

and having done so grasped it rightly by

the neck

then although the snake might wrap its

coils around it his hand or his arms or

his limbs

still he would not come to death or

deadly suffering because of that why is

that

because of his right grasp of the snake

so to hear some klansmen learn of the

dharma and so on

but they grasp brightly because of the

right grasp of the teachings

therefore because when you understand

the meaning of my statements remember it

accordingly and when you do not

understand the meaning of my statements

then ask either me about it or those

because who are wise

now this is very important to understand

what what they're saying what he's

saying is

they examine those teachings or the

meaning of those teachings with wisdom

and gain a reflective acceptance of them

and whenever we have the word wise or

wisdom what we are talking about is the

experience of the four noble truths and

the experience of

dependent origination

your experience will inform you how to

how to interpret let's say the sutas and

what i mean by that is sometimes you'll

go to a certain suta

and you'll read it and you have no idea

what is being talked about or you have

very little understanding of what's

going on whatever it is that they're

talking about

but the more you are able to

meditate and go into jhana and

experience these things for yourself

you're seeing them for yourself how this

process arises how you let go of the

hindrances with the six hours how the

smiling strengthens the mindfulness and

then ultimately seeing how the links

independent origination arise

seeing the tiny formations seeing the

tiny consciousnesses arise and pass away

and so on all of this is from direct

experience and that direct experience

equals wisdom and so when you go back to

the teachings when you go back to the

reading of the sutras

you go back with a different

understanding it's like the experience

has unlocked a kind of code which helps

you decipher the meaning of the suttas

and because of that as the buddha says

they gain a reflective acceptance of

them so when you read the sutas just

take them for what they are but you

don't have to accept them just do it

yourself

see for yourself how this process works

and then by that your experience will

help you to confirm

what is being taught or talked about in

the suttas

so don't read the suttas because you

want to be book smart

be street smart through the experience

of meditation and then you'll be wise

and be able to then reflect correctly

and grasp correctly the teachings

because i shall show you how the dhamma

is similar to a raft being for the

purpose of crossing over not for the

purpose of grasping listen it and attend

closely to what i shall say

yes venerable sir the because replied

the blessed one said this

because suppose a man in the course of a

journey saw a great expanse of water

whose near shore was dangerous and

fearful and whose further

was safe and free from fear but there

was no no ferry boat or bridge for going

to the far shore

then he thought there is this great

expanse of water

who's near shore is dangerous and

fearful and is further sure is

safe and free from fear

but there is no ferry boat or bridge for

going to the far shore

suppose i collect grass

twigs branches and leaves and bind them

together into a raft and supported by

the raft and making an effort with my

hands and feet i got safely across to

the far shore and then the man collected

grass twigs branches and leaves and

bound them together into a raft

and supported by the raft and making an

effort with his hands and feet he got

safely across to the far shore then when

he had got across and had arrived at the

far shore he might think thus

this raft has been very helpful to me

since supported by it and making an

effort with my hands and feet i got

safely across to the far shore suppose i

were to hoist it on my head or load it

on my shoulder

and then go wherever i want now because

what do you think by doing so would that

man be doing what should be done with

that raft no venerable sir

by doing what would

by doing what would that man be doing

what

should be done with that raft

sorry by doing what would that man be

doing

what should be done with that raft

here because when the ma when that man

got across and arrived at the far shore

he might think thus

this raft has been very helpful to me

since supported by it and making an

effort with my hands and feet i got

safely across to the far shore

suppose i were to

haul it onto the dry land

and set it adrift in the water

and then go wherever i want now because

it is by doing so that the man would be

doing what should be done with that raft

so i have shown you how the dhamma is

similar to a raft

being for the purpose of crossing over

not for the purpose of grasping

because when you know the dhamma to be

similar to a raft

you should abandon even the teachings

how much more so contra so how much more

so things contrary to the teachings

so in other words

when you experience something wonderful

in jannah or whenever you experience

something like the way of wisdom you

have an attainment or see the links that

depend origination

that's wonderful

but don't make it a big deal

don't get attached to it don't make that

a source of grasping

don't make the dhamma a source of

grasping the dhamma the experience of

the dhamma is for letting go of

suffering

if you grasp wrongly and start clinging

to the dhamma there is still some

suffering that will arise

it won't be through any kind of sensual

craving but it can be for

clinging to the dharma clinging to right

view it can be for craving to be

in a certain state whether it's a jhana

or any other kind of experience rooted

in the dharma

and when that happens then there is a

self which

connects with that dharma which makes

that dharma as me or mine or myself

and because of that there are views that

arise that are that need to be defended

there are insights that arise that need

to be

defended there are concepts and ideas

which then becomes sources for debates

and quarrels and all kinds of things

and when you notice this

if you notice this in your own practice

that you have

attendance

somebody who says something about the

dhamma to

to criticize them because they have

wrong understanding instead of saying

well have you considered it this way

have you thought about it this way or

you know i've heard about it in this way

so there is a way there's a method in

understanding the dharma and being able

to explain the dhamma in a way that is

kind and courteous and intentionally

wholesome but if you go ahead and become

pri uh proud and conceited about the

dharma and say now this is the only way

i know it to be

and this is the way you should be doing

then you are clinging to views

and so now that is the wrong grasping of

the teachings

and so the

and so the buddha says

because there are these six standpoints

for views

what are the standpoints

here be accused an untaught ordinary

person who has no regard for noble ones

and is unskilled and undisciplined in

their dharma

who has no regard for true men and is

unskilled and undisciplined in their

dharma regards material formed us this

is mine this i am this is myself

he regards feelings thus

this

is mine this i am this is myself he

regards perception thus

this is mine this i am this is myself he

regards formations thus

this is mine this i am this is myself he

regards what is seen heard since

cognized encountered sought mentally

pondered thus

this is mine this i am this is myself

the last israeli all about consciousness

awareness of what is seen

awareness of what is heard awareness of

the other sixth sense

the rest of the sixth sense faces and so

on and this standpoint for views namely

namely that which is the self is the

world

after i shall be permanent everlasting

eternal not subject to change i shall

endure as long as eternity this too he

regards thus this is mine this i am this

is myself so this is that viewpoint that

eternalist viewpoint where i am the

athman i am the self and when i die

according to this view when i die

i will become one with brahman one with

cosmic consciousness and i will be

forever immortal and eternal and so on

but there's a lot of

inconsistencies in that view because

that view considers there to be a

permanent self

and if self by definition is supposed to

be permanent and everlasting and

unchanging

then you cannot consider any of these

including the view of this idea of the

personal permanent self to be

to be permanent you cannot because

material form continues to change

feelings continue to change in every

moment perceptions continue to change in

every moment formations and

consciousnesses arise and pass away in

every moment

and so that cannot be considered to be

self the view itself that there is a

self that is permanent and everlasting

arises as a form of a mental

idea that is subject to be experienced

through the process of the mind

and whatever is tied to the experience

of the sixth sense faces which includes

the mind

is dependent upon causes and conditions

and whatever is dependent upon the sixth

sense basis

is liable to change and therefore even

this idea is liable to change it cannot

be considered

something that is independent or outside

the scope of dependent origination

because a well-taught noble disciple who

has regard for noble ones and is skilled

and disciplined in their dhamma who has

regard for true men and is skilled and

disciplined in their dharma

regards material form thus this is not

mine this i am not this is not myself

he regards feeling thus this is not mind

this i am not this is not myself now he

regards perception thus

this is not mine this i am not this is

not myself

he regards formations thus this is not

mine this i am not this is not myself he

regards what is seen heard

sensed cognized encountered sought

mentally pondered thus

this is not mine this i am not this is

not myself

and this standpoint for views namely

that which is the self is the world

after death i shall be permanent

everlasting eternal not subject to

change

i shall endure as long as eternally this

too he regards thus this is not mine

this is this i am not this is not myself

since he regards them thus he is not

agitated about what is non-existent

when this was said

a certain coup and blessed one venerable

sir can there be agitation about what is

non-existent externally there can be

beku the blessed one said yarabiku

someone thinks dust alas i had it

alas i have it no longer

alas may i have it unless alas i do not

get it

then he sorrows greaves and laments he

weeps speeding his breast and becomes

distraught

this is how there is agitation

about what is not

what about what is non-existent

externally

venerable sir can there be

no agitation about what is non-existent

externally

there can be beku the blessed one said

hirabiku someone does not think thus

alas i had it alas i have it no longer

alas may i have it unless alas i do not

get it

then he does not sorrow grieve and

lament he does not weep

beating his breast and becoming

distraught that is how there is no

agitation about what is non-existent

externally

when he talks about what is non-existent

externally what he's talking about this

idea of the brahman this idea about the

supreme cosmic consciousness

if you are experiencing it you are

experiencing it within the scope of the

sixth sense basis namely the mind

if it's a mental experience and you take

that to be something myself or mine or

myself and so on

then when you grasp it you have it when

it goes away you realize i don't have it

anymore and that is liable to cause

suffering but if somebody grasps it

correctly which is actually through not

grasping that is to say understanding

correctly that this experience is just

tied to the experience of mind and

therefore should not be worth holding on

to because it is impersonal

it is not mine it is not me it is not

myself

and they won't have any kind of ideas

about

something being there something not

being there

having been there done they just see

that as an impersonal process

so when they see it this way they won't

have any craving they won't have any

clinging they won't have any being

they won't have birth of new karma new

action and therefore further suffering

and so on

venerable sir can there be

agitation about what is non-existent

internally there can be beku the blessed

one says said

hirobiku someone has the view that which

is the self is the world after death i

shall be permanent everlasting eternal

not subject to change i shall endure as

long as eternity

he hears that

teachings

the

tata teaching the dharma for the

elimination of all standpoints

decisions

obsessions adherences and underlying

tendencies

for the stilling of all formations

or the relinquishing of all attachments

or the destruction of craving

or dispassion for cessation for nibana

he thinks thus

so i shall be annihilated so i shall

perish

so i shall be no more then he sorrows

grieves and laments

he weeps beating his breast and becomes

distraught that is how there is

agitation about what is non-existent

internally

venerable sir can there be no agitation

about what is non-existent internally

there can be beku the blessed one said

you're the biku hirabiku someone does

not have the view that which is the

world itself and i shall endure as long

as eternity

he hears that

or the disciple of the taga teaching the

dhamma for the elimination of all

standpoints decisions

obsessions adherences and underlying

tendencies

for the stilling of all formations for

the relinquishing of all attachments for

the destruction of craving for this

passion for cessation for nibana he does

not think thus so i shall be annihilated

so i shall perish

so i shall be known more

then he does not sorrow grieve and

lament he does not weep beating his

breast and become distraught this is how

there is no agitation about what is

non-existent

internally

so here first we talked about externally

this idea of a cosmic consciousness or

this idea of

some kind of larger self

there's also the idea of the atman there

is that which exists internally within

the body

controlling everything that's going on

this is really what the open issues talk

about they say that the

um the hearer the seer the the the one

who listens

the one who who uh who who smells and

tastes and so on is the atman is the

soul

and uh just a brief aside

of the bar cloth was somebody who had

that understanding from the upanishads

that the seeing the seer and so on

the cognizing the cognizer and so on

these are all part of self part of

athman

and the buddha understood this when he

came to the buddha but he asked him to

give him the teaching to become an

arahant and the buddha said

in the hearing there is only the herd in

the seeing there is only the scene in

the sensing there is only the sense

in the cognizing there is only the

cognized when there is no self

before that

when there is no self in it or any self

after it

then that just is the cessation of

suffering so in the same way here what

the buddha is saying somebody has the

standpoint or the view that i am the

self

i am the independent self that is not

able to be killed and so on and so forth

and so when they come across this

understanding of the dhamma and

nibana

they take that to be annihilationism

and when that happens they see this as

being an annihilationist view but in

truth

the idea that there was a self and then

the self is destroyed and so on is a

wrong view because in truth the idea of

a self in itself

is dependent upon causes and conditions

take away and cease the causes and

conditions and there is no self to begin

with

but that understanding that insight into

the experience of anata

doesn't lead to annihilationism it leads

to the cessation of suffering

so somebody doesn't hold that view

that's what's going to happen they can

correctly grasp the teaching and see

this that it doesn't matter whether

there is a self or not self that's not a

question to be looked at that's not a

question to be understood the question

should be

how does

how does cessation how does suffering

arise and how does it cease

because it's in the process of

independent origination where things are

taken personal as self that the craving

arises and then through that process the

clinging and the being and then from

that sense of self the action that

arises is liable to cause suffering but

when you see it for what it really is

that that this whole process

is impersonal then you're not going to

be causing yourself suffering or

yourself meaning you're not going to

have suffering there's not going to be

an experience of suffering because i

won't be craving clean being or any of

the links that lead to suffering in that

sense

when you're in the practice when you're

deep in quiet mind oftentimes

there will be some kind of a fear that

arises just before cessation happens

and that is the clinging of conceit that

is the formation of

i am

that subtlest formation of i am

is what causes the fear because you're

still taking this to be an impersonal

process

and that clutching to it when you feel

like you're falling when you feel like

everything is going to cease there are

people who describe it in such a way

that they feel like they're going to die

and why they say that or why they feel

that is because they're still coming

from that sense of self

so when you do come across this

experience of cessation just before let

see the fear as being arising because of

that subtle formation of i am

and just relax it and let it go and keep

letting it go and

there won't be any fear and there won't

be any reaction

to that experience prior to the

to the cessation

of perception feeling and consciousness

when there is no fear there won't be any

agitation there won't be any uh clinging

to it linking to this false notion of

self that prevents you or prevents the

mind from experiencing the sensation of

suffering

because that's where that wrong view of

self is holding on to the idea that if i

let go now i'm no longer going to be

alive

and that's true because the self

is impermanent

the idea of consciousness arises and

passes away

an understanding

that the self

as you understand the self to be

impermanent arises and passes away in

every moment and eventually after having

actually seen for yourself

that this is an impersonal process you

no longer put any kind of notion of self

to it and you ultimately experience the

cessation of perception feeling and

consciousness

because you may well acquire that

possession that is

permanent everlasting

eternal not subject to change and that

might endure as long as eternity

but do you see any such possession

because no venerable sir that's an

interesting question so the buddha

starts off with saying you may well

acquire that possession

it's almost like a trick question and he

says

you see that and they say no venerable

sir good because because i too do not

see any possession that is permanent

everlasting eternal

not subject to change and that might

endure as long as eternity

because you may well cling to that

doctrine of self that would not arouse

sorrow lamentation pain grief and

despair in one who clings to it again

it's a true question do you see any such

doctrine of self because

no venerable serb good because i too do

not see any doctrine of self that would

not arouse

sorrow lamentation pain grief and

despair in one who clings to it

because you may well take as a support

that view that would not arouse sorrow

lamentation pain grief and despair in

one who takes it as a support

but do you see any such supportive views

because no venerable sir good because i

too do not see any support for views

that would not arouse

sorrow lamentation pain grief and

despair

and one who takes it as a support that

means even right view you don't want to

take it as a support

see it as the raft it gets you across to

the other shore gets you

away from suffering and ceases suffering

and that's basically what it's used for

don't use that as a standpoint

as a foundation where from which you

cling to that view

because

there being a self

would therefore would there be for me

what belongs to a self yes venerable sir

there being what belongs to his self

would there be for me a self yes

venerable sir

since the self and what belongs to

yourself are not apprehended as true and

established

then this standpoint for views namely

that which is the self is the world

after death i shall be permanent

everlasting eternal

not subject to change i shall endure as

long as eternity

would it not be an utterly and

completely foolish teaching

what else could it be venerable sir but

an utterly and completely foolish

teaching

because what do you think is material

form permanent or impermanent

impermanent venerable sir

is what is impermanent suffering or

happiness

suffering venerable sir

is what is uh impermanent suffering and

subject to change fit to be

regarded thus this is mine this is this

i am this is myself

no venerable sir

because what do you think is feeling is

perception are formations is

consciousness permanent or impermanent

impermanent venerable sir

is what is impermanent suffering or

happiness suffering interval sir

is what is impermanence suffering and

subject to change fit to be regarded

thus

this is mine this i siyam this is myself

no venerable sir

therefore because any form or any kind

of material form whatever whether past

future or present internal or external

brass or subtle

inferior or superior far or near

all material form should be seen as it

actually is with proper wisdom thus

this is not mine this i am not this is

not myself

any kind of feeling whatsoever any kind

of perception any kind of formations

any kind of consciousness whatsoever

whether past

future or present

internal or external gross or subtle

inferior or superior

far or near all consciousness all all

consciousness and the rest of the

aggregates

that is to say feeling perception and

formations

should be seen as it actually is with

proper wisdom thus

this is not mine this i am not this is

not myself

seeing thus because a well-taught noble

disciple becomes disenchanted with form

disenchanted with feeling disenchanted

with perception is enchanted with

formations disenchanted with

consciousness

being disenchanted he becomes

dispassionate

through this passion his mind is

liberated so what we're talking about

here is

yes you might see formations arise in

your practice when you get to the quiet

mind but eventually all of these things

just become

disinteresting they become uninteresting

anymore

because of that there's disenchantment

and you're no longer interested in any

of that you're now just with your object

and you let go of any kind of

formation of i am you're not even

disinterested in you're disenchanted

with that as well and eventually that

leads its passion

and through that dispassion there is

cessation of

perception feeling and consciousness

and then there can be the mind that is

liberated

and so when it is liberated there comes

a knowledge it is liberated and so one

understands birth is

destroyed birth is destroyed in the

sense that there is not going to there's

not going to be any more new action

that is liable to cause new karma

a liberated mind sees all experiences as

old karma and therefore

doesn't hold on to it because it sees it

as being impersonal sees it as being

impermanent

because it sees it that way it won't

have any kind of clinging it won't have

any kind of grasping onto any underlying

tendency

because that's the case there won't be

any kind of craving there won't be any

kind of clinging and therefore there

won't be any kind of being from which

there can be birth of

new karma earth of new action

and ultimately on the macro level no

more rebirth that is how birth is

destroyed the holy one has been lived

what had to be done has been done there

is no more coming to any state of being

because in truth the arahant

has destroyed all all experience of

clinging to a sense of self in relation

any of the five aggregates

there is a definition of being in the

sutas which is one is considered a being

when there is any kind of identification

in relation to any of the five

aggregates

but the arahat sees the five aggregates

as they really are which is impersonal

so there is no more being in that mind

there is no sense of

being in that mind there's nothing to

defend there's nothing to

uh try to hold on to there's nothing

that is to be taken personal

there's so much relief and freedom in

such a mind

because these speed crew is called one

whose crossbar has been lifted whose

trench has been filled in

whose pillar has been uprooted

one who has no bolt

a noble one whose banner is lowered

whose burden is lowered who is

unfettered

and how is the beku one who whose

crossbar has been lifted

here the beku has abandoned ignorance as

cut it off at the root

made it like a palm stump done away with

so that it is no longer subject to

future arising

that is how the beku is the one whose

crossbar has been lifted when we talk

about ignorance we're talking about not

understanding the four noble truths

choosing not to see the four noble

truths in every moment

and that is because of lack of

mindfulness every time the mind slips

and doesn't have mindfulness it adds

energy back to the taint of ignorance

and therefore continues to add strength

to the link of ignorance which continues

to influence the formations that arise

but every time you 6r you regain your

mindfulness every time you are mindful

in the sense of seeing how your

attention moves how the mind's attention

moves and are able to see that process

as being impersonal and not taking it as

a self seeing it as impermanent that

attention that yoni so man is the car

that what i call

that's what i call

attention rooted in reality because it's

rooted in the understanding that this

experience right now

is impersonal that this experience right

now is impermanent and therefore not

worth holding on to every time a person

or being or a mind sees it in this way

they are

moving a

grinding way at aids

the mindfulness you have which is

maintaining your smile

using the six hours whenever craving or

clinging a rise

the more that happens the less there is

ignorance and ultimately wisdom arises

and how is the be crew one whose trench

has been filled in here the beku has

abandoned the round of birds that brings

renewed being has cut it off at the root

so that it is no longer subject to

future arising

rightly so when there is no more

ignorance and one has seen things as

they really are which is to say that

they understand that this is impermanent

this is

impersonal and not worth holding on to

then such a being has cut off any kind

of repeated patterns

when we think about rebirth rebirth

israeli on different levels

there is a rebirth when we talk about in

the arising and passing away of

consciousnesses in every moment

there is a larger level of rebirth from

one lifetime to another but there's a

rebirth that arises when you see that

you start to become acquainted with the

same kind of people and same kind of

situations

rebirth is another way of looking at

insanity definition of which is doing

the same thing over and over and again

expecting a different result

so you find yourself in certain kinds of

patterns or certain kind of situations

that you were in before

and if you have ignorance and you're not

able to see what that process is which

is impersonal and permanent and hold on

to an intention to react to it

there's liable to be rebirth of those

similar situations

but the moment you let go of it you're

not holding on to them and you're seeing

them as being impersonal

then you're whittling away at the old

karma of these situations eventually

if they arise again they won't be seen

as me mine or myself and eventually

won't be dealing with such situations

because the old karma is completely run

out

that is how the biku is one whose trench

has been filled in and how is the beku

one whose pillar has been uprooted

here the biku has abandoned craving has

cut it off at the root so that it no

longer so that it is no longer subject

to future or arising

this is how the be

is one whose pillar has been uprooted

can we talk about craving craving is

taking something to be personal and

seeing it as affecting a me on mine

myself

that is my uh possession i like it

because it makes me feel good i don't

like it because it's painful

or i identify in this way this is really

craving but they are not is one who

takes everything as impersonal and so

even a pleasant experience

painful experience it might hurt the

body but there won't be any agitation

there won't be any aggravation there

won't be any irritation because they're

not taking the body they're not taking

the mind they're not taking anything a

self

and so they have abandoned craving

altogether

and who how is uh the how is the beaker

one who has no bolt here the beku has

abandoned the five lower feathers has

cut them off

at the root

so that they are no longer subject to

future arising this is how the beaker is

one who has

no bolt we talk about the five lower

fetters when they have abandoned that

then you become another gun

that means when you become a sorapana

you let go of any kind of intellectual

belief in a personal self you understand

that this is indeed an impersonal

process

you let go of any doubt in the teaching

or that this is the path leading to

ibana and you let go of any kind of

rights or rituals

or clinging to any kind of rights and

rituals with the belief that they will

take you to nirvana

when you become asaka nagami you weaken

this the

better of sensual craving and you weaken

the fetter of aversion

when you become an onigami you have no

sensual craving coming up at all

and you have no aversion coming up at

all with the sakuragami they might

experience the arising of craving just a

little bit but then they're able to

immediately recognize it and 6r

with the onigami it doesn't happen at

all doesn't come up at all so this is

one who has

abandoned the five lower fetters

and how is the biku a noble one whose

banner is lowered

whose burden is lowered who is

unfettered

here ebike who has abandoned the conceit

i am has cut it off at the root

so that it is no longer subject

the future

arising that is how the beku is a noble

one whose banner is lord

whose burden is lord who is unfettered

you think about the five higher fetters

this is to say restlessness craving for

form realms craving for

being in formless realms

uh conceit and ignorance now consumers

already destroyed once you completely

understand the four noble truths and no

longer take anything to be personal

but

that's ignorance ignorance allows you to

see the

[Music]

the truth of the moment that is to say

you're able to see it in the context of

the four noble truths

you understand suffering you've

abandoned the craving that leads to

suffering you experience a cessation of

suffering and you have perfected the

eightfold path that leads to the

cessation of suffering this is how

ignorance is done away with now the

other three feathers the restlessness

the cling of the craving for being in

the form realm the craving for being in

a foreign is actually dependent upon

conceit

so when you cut off conceit

it's like a house of cards the other

feathers of restlessness

um of craving to be in a form room and

the craving to be uniformless from

completely demolished like a house of

cards

so that's because that sense of i am

arises when you want to be in a jhana or

you desire to be in a jhana or in a form

realm you desire to be in a rupa jana or

in a formless room or you just have

agitation with identifying with

something which could be even the dhamma

itself that this dharma is mine that's

the conceit

that's the restlessness that arises the

agitation from taking that to be mine

when the conceit goes away those

lower three feathers in the five ayah

fetters that restlessness

that craving to be in a form the craving

to be in a performance from those become

destroyed

because the gods with indra that is to

say saka in the tawa teams of heaven

with brahma and with prajapati seek a

beku who is thus liberated in mind they

do not find anything of which they could

say the consciousness of thus gone one

thus god is supported by this

why is that one thus god i say is

untraceable here and now

mind cannot be

understood completely at all they can't

it cannot be traced by the devas or by

the brahmas

that mind is empty of any kind of

clinging empty of any kind of conceit

and ignorance

when you think about the mind of an

arahat there is no sense of being if

there is no sense of being how could

there be a support

for this idea of such a person being

able to be found there's no more person

or personality in the sense of a self

wrong view of self arising in such a

mind

if you were to

let's say hook up

an arahat to the

eeg or any other brainwave detector or

whatever it might be of course there's

activity in that mind because there's

contact there's feeling and there's

perception

but there won't be any sense of self

there won't be any more conceit there's

not going to be any kind of ignorance

so i will venture to say that in that

sense when you do an fmri of a possible

arahant you won't see certain kinds of

networks in the brain

that would be active networks associated

with craving networks associated with

identification

networks associated with the wandering

mind

the arahat's mind is completely empty

it's completely

void of any kind of feather

so because of this it is completely

untraceable in that sense

so saying because so proclaiming i have

been

basis baselessly vainly falsely and

wrongly misrepresented by some recluses

and brahmanas thus

the recluse gotama is one who leads

astray he teaches the annihilation the

destruction the extermination of an

existing being

as i am not as i do not proclaim so have

i been

baselessly vainly falsely and wrongly

misrepresented by some recluses and

brahmins does

the reckless gautama is one who leads

astray he teaches the annihilation the

destruction the extermination of an

existing being

but because both formerly and now what i

teach is suffering and the cessation of

suffering

whenever the buddha says i teach

suffering and the cessation of suffering

he's talking about the arising of

dependent origination that is to say

they are rising from ignorance all the

way to

suffering

when he says suffering when he says

cessation of suffering he's talking

about the cessation of the links of

dependent origination

the cessation of craving which leads to

the cessation of suffering the cessation

clinging the cessation of being the

cessation of ignorance the cessation of

conceit and so on the cessation of

formations feathered by conceived

craving and ignorance

that is the cessation of create of

suffering

if others abuse revile scold and harass

the talgad for that

the taga on that account feels no

annoyance bitterness or dejection of the

heart and if others honor respect revere

and venerate the target for that

on that account

feels no delight joy or elation of the

heart

if others honor respect revere and

venerate the titan for that the tagat on

that account thinks thus

they perform such services as these for

me in regard to which

to this which earlier was fully

understood

therefore because if others abuse revile

scold and harass you on that account you

should not entertain any anoints

bitterness or dejection of the heart

and if others honor respect revere and

venerate you on that account you should

not entertain any delight joy or

relation of the heart

if others honor respect revere and

venerate you on that account you should

think thus they perform such services as

these

for us in regard to this which earlier

was fully understood

there therefore because whatever is not

yours abandon it and you have abandoned

it that will lead to your welfare and

happiness for a long time

what is it that is not yours

material form is not yours abandon it

when you have abandoned it that will

lead to your welfare and happiness for a

long time

feeling is not yours

perception is not yours

formations are not yours consciousness

is not yours abandon them

when you have abandoned them that will

lead to your welfare and happiness for a

long time

because what do you think if people

carried off the grass sticks branches

and leaves in this jetta grove or burned

them or did what they liked with them

would you think

people are carrying us off or burning us

or doing what they like with us

no venerable sir why not

because that is neither our self nor

what belongs to ourself so too because

whatever is not yours abandon it when

you have abandoned it that will lead to

your welfare and happiness for a long

time

what is it that is not yours form is not

yours feeling is not yours perception is

not yours

formations are not yours

consciousness is not yours

abandon it

when you have abandoned it that will

lead to your welfare and happiness for a

long time

because the dhamma well proclaimed by me

thus is clear open evident and free of

patchwork

in the dhamma well proclaimed by me thus

which is clear open evident and free of

patchwork

there is no future round for

manifestation in the case of those bekus

who are our hearts with pains destroyed

who have lived the holy life done what

had to be done

laid down the burden reached their own

goal destroyed the fetters of being

and are completely liberated through

final knowledge

because

the dhamma well proclaimed by me thus is

clear free of patchwork

in the dhamma well proclaimed by me thus

which is clear

free of patchwork those bikus who have

abandoned the five lower fetters that is

to say anagami's are all due to really

appear spontaneously in the pure abodes

and there attain parinabana final nibana

without ever returning from that world

because the

dhamma well proclaimed by me thus is

free clear of is clear free of patchwork

in the dharma well proclaimed by me thus

which is clear free of patchwork

those beakers who have abandoned three

feathers and attenuated lust hate and

delusion

are all once returners

returning once to this world and making

an end of suffering

because the dhamma well proclaimed by me

thus is clear free of patchwork

in the dhamma well proclaimed by me thus

which is clear free of patchwork those

beakers who have attained

who have abandoned three fetters are all

stream enterers

no longer subject to perdition meaning

they are no longer subject to rebirth in

lower realms the animal

the hungry ghosts

and the hell realms

and they are bound for deliverance it

can take up to seven lifetimes it can

take up to three lifetimes you could

even take up to one lifetime

and headed for enlightenment we talked

about that there's the sodapana who

accepts seven lifetimes

there is the sodapana who is known as

the

polankala and that kolankala means from

one family to another

and they'll take rebirth maybe three f

three lifetimes and there is what is

like a

is known as the akabija sort of that's

the one cedar soda panel this is like a

super soda panel which is

very much like a sakuragani but they

take birth in a human realm

and they can end up suffering right

there and then and attain final naivano

because the dhamma well proclaimed by me

thus is free clear free of patchwork in

the dhamma welcome well proclaimed by me

thus which is clear free of patchwork

those because who are dharma followers

or faith followers are all headed for

enlightenment

so dharma followers and faith followers

those are those who do some experience

have some experience with impermanence

and are bound for

island ibano they are stream enterers

actually because they have investigated

and the faculty

of uh

of the dhamma in terms of understanding

the dhamma is strong in the dhamma

followers and with the faith followers

their faculty of faith is stronger and

so they are called faith followers

because the dharma well proclaimed by me

thus is clear open evident and free of

patchwork

in the dhamma well proclaimed by me thus

which is freer which is clear open

evident and free of patchwork

those who have sufficient faith in me

sufficient love for me are all headed

for heaven

these are beings who have

uh conviction in the triple gem

conviction in the buddha and they

maintain their precepts but they haven't

had an attainment yet they haven't

deeply understood through wisdom and

insight and experience

through the process of the jhanas

through the path to nibana

and such beings will

because of their virtue because of their

faith and conviction

they are liable or they can be headed

for the deva realms for the sixth

centurious realms uh heavenly realms

this is what the blessed one said the

beakers were satisfied and delighted in

the blessed one's words

so does anyone have any questions

nelson

hi anthra how you doing good thanks

thank you very much for that

reading and discussion i really

appreciate it

now

thinking about the simile of the raft

and

my question is

in taking the triple gem which we

before setting

what attitude

uh is appropriate in taking the triple

gym

yeah

well for one like when when we go on

retreat and we have the taking of uh

refuge in the triple gem and uh

taking the five precepts or the eight

precepts or whatever that might be or at

home

it should be seen not as a rights and

rituals it should be seen

as a foundation for an uplifted mind

as soon as you take reverence for that

there is an uplifted mind which is

primed for meditation when you take the

precepts

you make a commitment

to remember to take to to follow the

precepts and that causes your mind to be

uplifted

and that creates

the grounds for very good meditation

practice

so i would say

you know even for like someone who has

crossed the str across the to the other

shore and let go of the raft that

doesn't mean that they don't have

reverence for the buddha the dhamma and

the sangha they definitely will still

have it

but they even see the buddha as being

obviously not self they seem they see

the dhamma as also being not self they

see the sangha as well as being not self

but there is still appreciation there's

still gratitude there's still

reverential uh

understanding

that the buddha went through such an

experience went through such a journey

and for that they have gratitude and

appreciation

that the dhamma is so so wonderful and

effective that it leads to this

experience of arahatship and for that

they have gratitude and that there is a

sangha a community that continues to

maintain that tradition and can be a

community of like-minded thinkers

where there can be discussion and

meditation and for that

there is uh reverential appreciation and

gratitude

but it seems to me that um

crossing the river with the raft um and

letting go of the wrath

that happens when you become an arahat

before you become an arahat you're still

clinging to the wrath because you

haven't finished the journey yeah

yeah so as long as some so so as long as

somebody is clinging to the raft which

is to say so as long as somebody is

taking the dharma to be

uh personal

making making things are concepts in the

dhamma that one understands as being a

big deal and seeing it more than it

actually is rather than just a raft to

let you

lead to the cessation of suffering

and that person still has clinging and

that person is not an arahania right

right

however if you're not an arahat there is

clinging to the wrath clinging to the

dhamma because

without doing that you're gonna fall

into the street into the stream and not

ever get across

yes seems like

so what i'm taking away from this is

that

taking the triple gem whether you're

you're just a worldly being or whether

you're an arahat you take it with a

sense of gratitude

yes

this is how i understand it

nelson i have a question for you

yes um

let me talk to you a little bit about

the nogles

oh there we go yeah

there it is

can you give some explanation of what

naga means and what these nagas are what

the naga realm is and are they here

well they're not here in this room right

now but

how do you know

nagas are nagas are known not only in

buddhism but also

in ancient india they were known as

these beings

who resided in what is known as the

realm of the four great kings

but they they can be

experienced in this particular realm

which is to say the human plane of

existence

and nagas

they're basically reptilian in nature or

they're snake-like beings and that's why

even the snakes in india are known in

some ways as nagas or nagini nagini

being the female form and the reason

being is because the snakes or reptiles

have a certain cold-blooded attitude

about things

uh in the same way the nagas actually

the nagas are not able to experience

loving-kindness not experience able to

experience warmer emotions

they're cold and calculating and they're

very protective of the dharma

interestingly enough

uh they have reverence and and so on but

it's it's a very

cold and calculating way of doing it

now

the nagas are also shape-shifters

shape-shifters in the sense like you

have

this concept of reptilians and things

like that that can shape-shift

absolutely they can shape-shift that's

why one of the we talked about this last

time i think where

one of the questions that is asked when

you ordain is are you an animal or are

you a naga uh pretending to be or

impersonating a human

for the very fact that uh there was a

story where there was a naga who

impersonated a human

took ordination and then

late at night when he slept when he was

asleep he changed back to his usual naga

form which is pretty scary i mean it

looks

like a reptilian they have very weird

snake-like eyes and scaly skin and all

kinds of reptilian features

so that definitely scared some of the

monks and there was a rule in the

vineyard that that's one of the

questions that should be asked which is

are you a naga

but there's another understanding that

arahat's also known as nagas not for the

fact that they are reptilian or anything

like that not for the fact that they are

cold and calculating it's because

naga is a contraction of two words in

sanskrit and pali so the na which is uh

and guna means innocent or good so

argona means not innocent or guilty or

blameworthy

and so when you contract these two it's

na aguna naga

one who is blameless and innocent

meaning they have no more fetters they

have no more conceit or other kinds of

feathers that can cause them to be blame

worthy of an action

that's one understanding now are the

reptilians here are the naga here

i mean i've heard stories of them being

in walmart and somebody told me that

they were they saw them at a walmart but

you know i can neither confirm nor deny

that but

but you can encounter them uh there was

a story i i was saying that uh one time

while i was in cambodia

now this is one of those really weird

stories so

you can take it with a grain of salt and

if you want to believe it you can

believe it you don't want to believe it

that's okay

but uh i i was at a i was

staying at my dad's hotel and uh he had

this guy who was uh who was working for

him and he just gave off this really

cold calculating vibes and just just

very

on the surface not very warm and things

like that and i had a realization that

this person is actually a naga and i

actually weirdly enough confronted them

about it

and they said yes

and and

they left they just went away they

realized okay i'm caught

i might as well go so they're around you

know they they can appear in human form

and uh

it's possible that uh

you might encounter one but you won't

know it you if you really look for

certain kinds of elements of what makes

up a naga you wouldn't really know it

you mean the black eyes

[Laughter]

well they can have black eyes they can

have uh

like snake-like eyes like the reptilian

features uh those kinds of things so

nagas will have different colored eyes

and things like that but yeah you're

talking about the children of the black

eyes who have nothing but the black eyes

they can appear in that way too in the

same way you see snakes of different

colored eyes as well you'll see in the

same way for nagas

okay

hi delson

thank you for your talk as insightful as

always nice to see you

i'm wondering if you can elaborate a

little bit

on suffering

uh and the reason why i ask is because i

came across the suture a few years ago

uh you know where

the buddha says because both formerly

now what i teach is suffering and the

cessation of suffering

right so that spoke to me you know a few

years ago i was like great you know

suffering around work suffering around

raising kids you know

lay life all these things are that i

consider suffering

but with the explanation today seem like

the buddha's talking about

the idea of suffering is much more

narrow in some ways

uh even though there's a lot more to it

uh in other words so what i thought

about suffering when i first came to

this path

all right seems to be like not quite

what the buddha's talking about

uh when i think of like i wanted my

suffering i think i don't want any more

troubles at work or troubles with my

co-workers or you know these kind of

mundane sufferings if you will but the

buddha seems to be talking about a whole

other level or type of suffering so can

if you can just help i guess it help me

understand like what that level is and

if is there a way to bridge you know

what i think of as mundane suffering

with what the buddha is really offering

to us

yeah so i i guess it depends on which

suture you read but i know that uh in um

the greater discourse on the four

foundations of mindfulness uh which is

which is uh

which is indiga nikaya i can't remember

which which number it is it's either 14

or 15. i i can't remember which one but

uh in there there's a really good

explanation of the forefront of the four

foundations of mindfulness and within

that

the four noble truths

and the buddha goes and says you know he

talks about suffering and he goes

through each of the different kinds of

suffering suffering includes illness

suffering includes sick aging suffering

includes death

getting what you don't want not getting

what you want

all of these things are suffering so

there's a whole like sort of list of

things so you might want to look at it

it's the mahasati patana so suffering is

also a

unpleasant feeling that's suffering as

well but that's old suffering that's why

i keep delineating it between old and

new which is

everything leading up to a feeling which

is which can be a pleasant or painful or

neutral feeling

is old karma if you add to it by craving

for it or averting against it or

identifying with it then there's new

suffering in the form of or new karma in

the form of craving clinging being birth

of action and uh jarana marana

jaramarana

so but when he talks about you know all

i teach are these two things which is

suffering and

the right uh the cessation of suffering

what he's really referring to is the

parent origination

so dependent origination when you see it

you see the four noble truths in every

link of dependent origination if you

read maj manikayan 9 that that will show

you how that clearly that that works out

but the understanding here is

yes he says i teach affordable truths

but just to encapsulate it he says i

show you how suffering arises through

this process of dependent origination

and such suffering can include pleasant

feelings or sorry pleasant feelings that

might change into unpleasant feelings or

unpleasant feelings it can change to

uh you know different kinds of dukkha

which is like the

which is the dukkha of the body the

suffering of the body suffering of the

mind which is anxiety and depression and

not writing what you want or not getting

what you want

getting what you don't want and all of

these things are divided into three

different categories of suffering

there's the dukkha

there's the vipari nama dhuka and

there's the sankhara dukkha

so the dukkha is really the physical

part of that

well the physical and mental the vipari

is the duke of change

the inherent stability instability of

life which is to say

you know suffering when you miss a

flight

suffering because uh you know your fight

got cancelled suffering because you were

in a hot shower and suddenly it became

cold

suffering because you were expecting it

to be a sunny day and suddenly it

started to rain

you know all of these are also suffering

and

what i'm explaining to you here in that

in those examples

can be extrapolated from

that uh understanding of suffering in

the mahaprabhu

that's uh 22 22.

nikaya 22. you're gonna 22. thank you

yes

thank you

awesome i'll go look at those thank you

so much really appreciate it

let's see i

delson i i really liked the suit a lot

did a really great job on it um

and also the um

the one thing i thought

it was cool about this suit i always

thought it was cool that

all of the different

examples the different um

similes

are mostly about follow the instructions

and everything works fine but if you

deviate from the instructions it doesn't

work right yeah

that's what i was teaching when i was

using this in a retreat about a month

ago and it and also

one of the things i stumbled on in this

that is kind of cool was nobody is stuck

nobody can say i got stuck

i got on this thing about me i had a

bunch of people who were saying i'm so

stuck i'm so stuck i said no nobody's

stuck

and then we talked about what i meant

you know nobody is stuck

only

you know what i mean

yes

yes you talk about that a little bit no

yeah i mean

yeah people you know when they go on the

path and they experience all of these

things in china's they might say oh you

know there was this

restlessness that arose and

and i'm stuck there because of the

restlessness but then as as monte will

say who is restless

you know or who is craving

uh you know or who wants it to be a

certain way and really what he's

pointing out is the impersonal nature of

this process

not only the impersonal nature of

suffering but even the impersonal nature

of the path leading to the cessation of

suffering and the cessation of suffering

itself

and ibana is impersonal so

you're not stuck you don't you're just

well there are there are impediments and

there are blockages and things like that

but it's not happening to anyone

it's just a process that's arising and

you take the tools to

apply whether it's forgiveness or any

other of the processes

like the six hours and so on

and you let go and that's it and in the

letting go you experience some kind of

relief

and by the way even that relief

is not yours

even that experience of nirvana is not

yours even the joy that experiences from

an attainment is not yours

that's cool

and um

the other thing was turning anitra

around

can you talk about anita because like

last year one of my students said

something and i didn't even think about

this before because anita is always

coming to us

as a nietzsche is this impermanence and

change and because we get annoyed with

that and human beings don't like it then

we suffer it and we see it always

presented like that

only she came to me and said she

discovered something and i said what she

said i think anita is my friend

and i said what do you mean

and and she had to tell me you know she

told me well the thing is

if something bad is going on if i just

remember anita it's like i want to put a

team flag on my wall because if i

remember and nietzsche is real in

everything everything is impermanent

then i'm not stuck

yes and that she was talking about not

stuck she wasn't using that term but she

was basically saying you know i'm not

stuck

yeah

did you experience this with this this

two-sided thing about anisha

oh definitely i mean in the beginning if

somebody takes something to be self and

they say oh what do you mean all things

are impermanent

uh then that leads to a lot of

discomfort with that idea because i want

this happy i want this happy feeling to

continue what do you mean that the

jhanas are impermanent i want to

continue feeling these chanas you know

what do you mean loving kindness is

impermanent well it is i mean all

conditioned things

are impermanent that is the

understanding

but i love that fact that she's able to

use impermanence as a friend because in

the realization of impermanence

you abandon any kind of taking of

anything as being personal

and that can lead to a deeper

understanding deeper insights

i know there's like seven different

types of perceptions or sometimes six

different types of perceptions that are

talked about which is they kind of lead

one to the other which is

uh and if i remember correctly it's like

the perception

of impermanence leads to the perception

of understanding dukkha the perception

of understanding dukkha leads to the

perception of understanding anatha and

personal impersonality

that leads to the understanding of

disenchantment and dispassion and

ultimately cessation and so on so

impermanence is really the key to to

start that whole process i've come

across a couple of sutas where the

buddha talks about seeing the

impermanence in this experience

lets you abandon the fetters lets you

abandon any of the attachments

but then seeing the impersonal nature of

things lets you uproot that

meaning so that they are not liable to

return

that they are not liable to emerge again

in terms of the feathers or any of the

attachments

yeah that's good that's cool

and i had a student just yesterday who

came to me

and said well i don't see why i have to

do this with the way you're explaining

it with the path and stuff because i

have i already have the second genre i

have it

and i

have you been have you been confronted

with the person who walks in and says

well i already have the fourth i have it

you know

[Music]

yeah that's the thing who's janna is it

i mean did you buy it at a store and now

you possess it or does it just come out

because of does it come about because of

causes and conditions that's

that's the way to really understand it

it's really terrific yeah thank you

thank you

hi delson um thank you for the talk um

the question for you on the uh the fear

of the cessation and you

pointed that

um could you elaborate more on that and

how to basically confront it and

i mean that that feeling

may come across few times

and

how to basically

embrace it or basically let that go

because

one of the fears could be uh

the fear of uh what happens if i don't

continue the status quo or

if the life gonna change significantly

what happened after that

basically

yeah could you elaborate more on that

how to basically let that go and

make make that passes smoother

yeah

so first of all when it comes to the

experience just before cessation

sometimes people kind of stubble stumble

into it

uh and then experience it and then

experience relief and joy and so on but

sometimes people have this

fear and that fear can be some kind of

blockage that they're not looking at

one of the tools you can use is your

intuition and ask

what is blocking this experience of

cessation to happen what is blocking uh

in the form of this fear

from going further

you ask the question one time

let it go and then like an insight it'll

arise and then it'll let you know what

it is that the mind is attached to that

is preventing

that experience of cessation to happen

and your six art and let it go

and that allows you to actually

experience

in the

in the meditation when that experience

happens

uh or the fear of that experience

happens rather you have the information

of why this is happening and you let it

go right there and then

now letting go doesn't mean you try to

let go letting go doesn't mean i am

letting go because

what is being abandoned is that

formation of i am

what is being abandoned is the sense of

self so how can the self let go of the

self that's that's what you have to

understand it's not that that's not

what's going on

what's actually going on is when there

is an abandoning it's just a letting go

in the form of let's say you're carrying

a heavy burden and you just let it go

that's it there's no there's no there's

nothing beyond just letting go there's

nothing beyond like i have to let go or

i have to do it in the very observation

of seeing that there is a hindrance in

the form of this tension or in the form

of this attachment to self

there is some relief there in seeing

that because it stops that flow and then

you

you relax and you

you you release and you relax and so on

and that lets it go and that that

replaces

that old model of thinking and

perceiving things with a new model it

replaces the unwholesome with the

wholesome so it even the six hours is an

impersonal process

if you see it with that understanding

and you use your intuition

that should help

johnson can we say that that's is that

the same thing as doubt right

that point would be doubt so if we went

to upeck kalasa and

it's one of the ones he said as soon as

you understand that doubt is an

imperfection we abandon it

yeah yes yes and that can happen with

any of the any of the upperculasis or

any of the hindrances in the in the

actual recognition of it it stops it

it stops the flow of any of that doubt

or restlessness or whatever and then the

rest of that process is just uh

doing the rest of the four right efforts

abandoning it by just releasing it

letting it go and relaxing it smiling

which is generating the wholesome and

then maintaining it by collectiveness by

coming back to your objective meditation

so the first right effort of uh

recognizing it or preventing it from

continuing on is happening through that

process of realization

right i guess

the other

side of the coin i guess is one side is

is that fear but the other side of the

coin because

i know there is a lot of talking about

that and you read a lot of that

is the excitement

saying that oh it's happening

and that prevents that as well

so how to i mean how to basically come

across that or how to put that behind

that's the longing that's the other part

of it and actually longing is one of the

classes that are mentioned in the lupica

sutras and uh in the uber killer isuta

and that longing is happening because

you have an intention or an expectation

of how this meditation is going to

happen

or if you don't have an expectation of

how this meditation is going to happen

and you start off with saying let's just

see what happens that's the attitude

that everybody should have like

i don't know what's going to happen with

this meditation let's just see what

happens

if you start continue with that attitude

even when you're in the quiet mind then

there won't be any longing but in the

recognition and that's why i say

arguably that it's uh

it's easy to get into cessation for

stream entry but after stream entry to

get into cessation again is more

difficult because you know the path you

know the signposts you know the things

that are going to lead to that

experience and as soon as you grasp onto

those signposts

there's no cessation so

when you find the mind starting to

recognize and trying to grasp onto these

things

see that as a hindrance and let it go

and just say okay i don't care about

that so that's where the disenchantment

comes in i've seen this before i know

what's going to happen

i don't care i really don't care and

it's not just saying it it's really it's

really just experiencing it it's really

just saying let's just see what happens

and so that's really again redeveloping

if you will the beginner's mind the mind

that says

you know i don't know what to expect

i'm just going to continue on

uh and let's see how the mind unravels

and

that's it

right okay

what was the um the sutra number that

you mentioned is it in uh majimanikai or

is about um

continuation or basically

the the

basically what continued after death i

guess we talked about you on

could you talk a little bit about that

process about

how caramel craving

gonna continue on i guess and

going to manifest so in terms of the

form

is it karma from one person

going to

i don't know keep the whole uh

they uh keep keep it the whole way and

then uh or that from one person gonna

basically uh dismantle multiple car mods

or how how does it work basically

okay i'm trying to understand your

question are you saying um

like how does rebirth work on them on

from one lifetime to the next

[Music]

yes or what do you what do you um okay

so what you should understand uh first

and foremost is um

the last thing that the buddha said and

this is how i understand it to be

very last words of the buddha were that

all conditioned things are impermanent

be mindful and strive for your awakening

i'm paraphrasing here but there's a very

specific thing he says

all unc all condition things are

impermanent and when you read the pali

it the the word of condition comes from

the word sankara

so he was very very uh

very much

wanting people to understand this part

otherwise he would not have said this as

his last words is because fine you can

come to the understanding

that consciousness is impermanent you

see it arising and passing away

but then

okay now you understand that formations

activate the consciousness in the

process of dependent origination

and formations can then give rise to a

new consciousness that takes rebirth

into new mentality materiality but then

that can that can

be misconstrued as saying then that

means formations themselves are also

permanent they're arising and they're

going from one lifetime to the next but

that's wrong

because formations

are dependent upon previous choices and

intentions

formations arise because there is some

kind of contact with the outside world

with the sixth sense spaces

and they will give rise to for example

mental formations

that gives rise to feeling and

perception or verbal formations which

gives rise to verbal speech or bodily

formations which gives rise to breathing

so when the formations arise

they then give rise to consciousness but

that doesn't mean the formation

continues on it just continues so long

as there is some kind of karma to be

played out

so formations are always changing just

like consciousness is always changing

always arising and passing away

when you understand this as well then

you see that it's not that formations

continue on from one lifetime to another

what they do is they activate a certain

type of consciousness that's why it's

understood that your last intention in a

previous life gave rise the the strength

of the craving the strength of the

clinging to that last thought that by

the way arose because of certain

formations

will then be an indicator of your next

life if you cling to it if you cling on

to it what that means is if a person has

been unwholesome all their life

then the formations that arise because

of the continual

making of the choices rooted in the

unwholesome

will give rise to unwholesome thoughts

will give rise to some kind of

unwholesome image

in the form of regret and and that can

give rise to some kind of regret or

remorse or fear or anger or any other

unwholesome

mental actions or thoughts

when that happens there's craving in

there because of that fuel of craving

that cut that formations that that

created that image

uh activates a certain kind of

consciousness that then is established

in a new namarupa which then fades away

and there is a continual arising and

passing away of consciousnesses in that

new being in that new life

now if a person has been wholesome

throughout their life then the choices

because of their choices being wholesome

there will be further wholesome thoughts

there will be formations rooted in the

wholesome which will give rise to

wholesome thoughts which can give rise

to love and kindness which can give rise

to an experience of

joy which can give an experience of

gratitude or

start seeing visions of devas or other

things like that and that's brooded in

the formations so the formations i see

them as carriers of karma but they're

not

they're impersonal and they are not

permanent they do their job in the form

of activating a consciousness which then

cognizes and experience but they fade

away after that so there is a momentum

that is felt by the process of this

experience of formations but that too

fades away and they keep changing so the

more wholesome you are the more you make

choices in the wholesome the more they

tend towards the wholesome the next

arising of formations

can become wholesome

so this whole process of the six hours

is about

purifying let's say the next arising of

formations so formations are always

arising in every given moment arising

and passing away just like consciousness

but the next formation that arises is

dependent on a previous choice you've

made

so if your choice has been wholesome it

will be more often than not a wholesome

formation which will give rise to your

mind

basically automatically inclining to the

wholesome

so what we're talking about here is

really

reconditioning the mind using the tools

of the six r's which is really the noble

eightfold path

recondition the mind from going from

taking things personal and causing

itself suffering the mind that sees

things as being impermanent impersonal

and understanding and leading to the way

of cessation of suffering

when the formations do activate a kind

of consciousness they will activate

because there is some some kind of

personalizing going on even in the

wholesome formations that arise which

can give rise to an experience of a

vapor realm which can give rise to joy

or loving kindness in that moment

because of the taking of it personal

that is liable to create a consciousness

which then becomes established in a new

nama rupa in the new life

that's why there's a story or there's a

suta in which

uh there's a there's an arahant who

passes away and

the buddha points out and says you see

all that black smoke that's around that

that monk

and that is basically

that's basically mara who's looking for

the consciousness of the arahat but

because that arahant has no more

clinging no more craving no more being

there's not going to be any feathered

formations to cling to and because of

that there won't be any new

consciousness that arises and because of

that there won't be a new rebirth

right no that's a really great

explanation and one question on that so

in terms of the right view

one aspect of that

is that uh as buddha mentioned we are

our own house builders

and the previous karma of course built

this house and if you're building

karma we're gonna continue this cycle of

samsara

but then the question is that

this

karma i guess the ownership of the karma

the karma is

mine or we can we can actually

own this karma but there is a way to

escape

building the house again

and

that that's by releasing the karma

basically or just letting it go i don't

know how that past karma are going to

shed

in this life

basically so that's one aspect of and

the other thing is that if karma goes on

in the next life i

can it cause multiple formations or can

it cause multiple

repairs rather than one reverse because

if it is gonna cause one reverse then

it's gonna be similar to okay one soul

goes to the next soul that's all exist

but does it have

any basically different

causing different formations

if my karma or this this karma goes to

the next life

okay

the first you have to understand one

thing right now are you experiencing

karma

well i guess the reason i'm

the karma i don't know no no i mean is

there are you experiencing

uh my voice right now are you

experiencing the sound of my voice

are you experiencing the sight of the

computer screen or maybe the mobile

screen that you're watching the zoom uh

through

yes

yeah that's karma

karma is activity karma is painful

pleasant neutral feeling

that is the

fruit of previous choices

you had an intention to come and join on

this zoom call that's karma as well

so there's a distinction between all

karma and karma

in terms of intention

is karma

vipaka which is a technical term for the

fruition of karma is the fruit or the

effect of your choices

but if you made a choice now

and then that created an experience

later

there's a direct connection between

cause and effect cause being the

intention the karma that you add in the

form of a decision a choice

and karma as vipaka the fruition as an

effect of that choice

but nowhere in between those nowhere in

the process of intention

and nowhere in the process of the effect

was it a personal process in the form of

a self experiencing it

and the reason i say that

is because

can you control right now

what you're going to be hearing can you

control that what volume i'm going to be

speaking can you control

uh the colors that are going to be

appearing on the screen in the way that

your eye sees it

no i cannot yeah

well i mean technically you can by

reducing the volume and things like that

but aside from all of that other stuff

and what i'm what i'm getting at is

anything that you're experiencing right

now in contact feeling and perception

you can't control that so there's no

controller there it's an impersonal

process

so the effects of those choices are

impersonal that's one way of

understanding but how then are the

intentions

impersonal as well because your

intentions are conditioned by

previous effects

so right now if somebody chooses

uh well in the sense that somebody

decides

to shut off the internet

uh or let's say you forget to pay the

the bill for the internet you're no

longer going to be able to see this zoom

you made a choice not to pay and the

effect of that is because of

not not not paying the bill

but in nowhere is there any personal

self in that process of choice every

choice that you take

there is an automation process in the

sense that

it's not that the choice is just

happening on its own the choice happened

because of a series of causes and

conditions that led to that choice

and the series of processes and

conditions causes and conditions that

led to that process of choice

is karma

and so that karma came about because of

a previous choice and that karma came

about because of a previous choice and

so on and so forth but in nowhere was

there an underlying permanent self

experiencing that

because you might have made a choice

i mean just a very general general idea

you might have made a choice to to save

up for college let's say when you were

younger

or your parents made the choice they

opened up a bank account you made up a

choice to save up for college

that was one sense of self that you had

but the one who experienced

the fruits of that is that another sense

of self or is that the same sense of

self

that's what i'm trying to get at here

it's all impersonal it's just a series

of choices causes and conditions that

lead to the next series of causes

choices and conditions

now when the buddha says you are the

inheritor of your karma what he's trying

to say is

the choices that you made previously led

you to this karma

so anything that happens in the context

of dependent origination from formations

up until feeling

are the effects of previous choices that

you had how you choose to see it will

determine new choices if you choose to

have craving if you choose to have

clinging if you choose to have habitual

tendencies

that will create birth of new karma and

spurt of new action

and so you are creating karma in this

way

now

the

negantas or the jains had this idea that

i am going to purify my karma through

self-mortification

and other things

like that so the buddha said

how do you know like is there a bank

balance of what karma is remaining and

when karma has been purified how do you

know that

and they said we don't know it so how do

you know that in every moment karma is

being

experienced then karma is being

let go of

this is the way to understand it now in

the context of seeing that you have

formations all the way from formations

up to contact feeling and perception as

being old karma

then you are experiencing the karma of

previous choices

how you choose to take this moment will

lead you to either acting upon

that feeling in a way that creates

craving and identification

thus perpetuating that karma over and

over and over every time you do that or

purifying the mind through taking the

precepts through sila

cultivating the mind through

through bhavana or samadhi through the

jhana practice

through

collectedness

and purifying your view

through insight that arising of

understanding the wisdom that arises

because of seeing the penetration nation

and the four noble truths

when that happens then the mind becomes

so pure and so mindful that it no longer

takes any feeling

the end point of any old karma as being

personal it sees it all as being

impersonal and therefore doesn't react

to it doesn't have any underlying

tendencies that underlie the feeling

that allowable to create further craving

and clinging so karma is something that

is to be felt and experienced that is

the old karma any new karma that arises

is because you chose or somebody chose

to take it personally somebody chose to

identify with it somebody chose to have

craving or clinging to it or aversion

and

ill will towards it when you see in that

mindfulness that that feeling was

impersonal

then you're not going to react in a way

that is outside the scope of the

eightfold path but if you react that is

some if you react in a way or respond

through within the scope within the

bounds of the eightfold path and that is

the cessation of karma

buddha says that the way leading to the

cessation of karma is the eightfold path

why because

not only do you have right view you have

right intention which is an intention

rooted in letting go and abandoning

rooted and ill

rooted in non-ill will or loving

kindness rooted in non-cruelty or

compassion that gives rise to right

speech you speak when it is timely you

speak true words you speak in a kind

manner that is not liable to cause

further karma you act in a way that

doesn't cause pain and suffering for

yourself or to others you have a

livelihood that doesn't cause pain and

suffering to yourself or to others

you use the six hours which is right

effort and therefore you're mindful in

every moment which allows you to see the

experience as being what it really is

and therefore not adding any more

reactions that are liable to create new

karma

thank you that was a long winded answer

but hopefully

there was some clarity that's great

really appreciated

dustin can i ask you one question in

that

there's a choice in there what about

volition and who chooses

yeah so how would you actually the way i

see

yeah the way i see volition which is

chetna is intention so what i i say or

how i understand it to be is

that every choice is conditioned by

previous choices and so that those

choices are conditioned by contact with

the outside world

so when you have

intention comes first but you have

intention the chaitanya then the comma

the action that we package the ripening

and the kamapala as the fruition but

after the intention there's a volitional

choice to go through with this or not so

volition is separate from caitanya so

who who chooses

yeah there is there's no one who chooses

there is a there's almost an automated

process the way i see it and what i mean

by that is

that volition as you're saying i mean

you're getting really deep into

the the point between the intention and

the action itself because in that moment

of choice

there can be either a choice to act in

the unwholesome or the choice to say

wait the mind is tending to the

unwholesome

and

letting go

and experiencing

so would you say would you say that i'm

trusting my brain or would you say that

i'm trusting my brain that it has

been tr you know in the in the six hours

you the first two

first part of it is purification the

second part of it is retraining the

brain would you say that i tr the brain

is trained enough

because of the repetition of the six r's

that it leans and you're and you're just

wanting to lean

not really choose to to act or not would

you say it that way exactly

yes because

yeah because before you do the eightfold

path before you do the six r's

even those choices are seemingly

automatic

i mean when when somebody chooses to be

unwholesome when someone reacts

in a way that causes anger or creates

anger and suffering

that choice itself tends towards the

unwholesome but the moment you start to

six r the repetition as you say of the

continual six hour process the

repetition of the eightfold path has the

choice inclining towards the wholesome

has a choice inclining towards

the eightfold path

yeah

yeah the six hours is actually

retraining the neural pathways in your

brain to let go of your old habits and

structurally build new neural pathways

in your brain to have a new habit

of the wholesome direct instead of the

unknowns of direction

so if you get if you that's why

practicing this whole practice outside

of just in in the retreater when we're

training people convincing them that

when they say to me you know i didn't

have enough time to sit to practice they

they're thinking i didn't have enough

time to sit at home in the morning sit

at home at night

i'm talking about doing this stuff all

day long

inside and out you see that's what i'm

asking you to do when you leave the

retreat

and then when i i'm checking up on these

women that came through a few a couple

weeks back

a 10-day retreat i'm calling them on a

follow-up on a 30-day checkup i want to

know what these people have been doing

outside of sitting after they moved into

another module for training and what

they're doing it's going to be fun

yes and

and and the way i would look at it is

you have to do the six hours anytime you

recognize the craving anytime you

recognize the aversion anytime you

recognize any of the hindrances arising

what you are doing is

you're training your mind

to see that hindrance as just being

impersonal so any time it starts to

arise you let it go and you replace it

with the wholesome the more you do that

the weaker the hindrance will be the

hindrance the hindrance itself

is old karma

but how you choose to react to that

hindrance will be new karma or the

cessation of that karma that's why every

time you six are the hindrance and it

might come up again it's weaker in the

next cycle of the arising of that

immigrants okay

completely fades away question for you

about what you're saying

and that is are you finding your

vipassana students that are coming from

straight papasana who are trained on the

sensations in the body sensing the

sensations are they going through the

program faster than the people who have

not learned to sense these sensations

because that's what's happening in our

wreck in my records in india

it's finally the place where we get to

a place of agreement that they've had a

set of training and now if they go into

this they're moving much faster

you see because they can sense this the

sensation arising that's the that's the

symptom of the craving and if they let

go they start to let go sooner than the

other students is that happening with

you there in the states

well what i'm seeing or what the way i

explain it is vipassana or straight

vipassana is really just

it's just the first r

meaning they they have a good way of

noting when there's an arising of

sensations they have a good way of

noting when perceptions are arising and

things like that or craving is arising

so it really strengthens the first hour

of recognize or realizing but

what i also tell them after that is once

you recognize it's not just like

okay you're noting it you're actually

doing something with it if it's craving

if you notice there's tightness you're

actually doing something with it by

releasing and relaxing you're actually

doing something with it when you're

re-smiling and

collecting your mind or returning back

to the object of meditation

thanks that's good yeah

okay

any last questions i'll take one more

question nelson um i have a question

about forgiveness meditation

um yes

so it's about

the determination to

stay so that stays shallow enough that i

can still vocalize the forgiveness

and um

sometimes the determination works for me

sometimes it doesn't more recently not

working so much

i think maybe if i understood like how

the determination works like

what makes the determination work it

might be easier to really figure this

out and

stay in a level where i can vocalize and

do the forgiveness

well i would say with forgiveness you

should always be verbalizing and that

will help you to stay in the first jhana

meaning

when you walk you say i forgive you you

forgive me with every step right you say

i forgive you you forgive me

that is verbalizing when you are sitting

down and you you say i forgive myself

for not understanding then you start to

experience

you wait and you see what's happening

and you start to situations might come

people might come up memories might come

up then you say the same thing you

forgive it you relax it i forgive myself

for not understanding somebody else

comes up and you say i forgive you

enough for not understanding so every so

often you say that as a way of letting

the mind stay in that first jhana but

you're always saying it when somebody

comes up i forgive you for not

understanding in doing so you're

experiencing

acceptance of that and letting you go

and move on to the next person and the

next person so

you have to make a determination not in

that sense that you if you just say i

look i forgive myself for not

understanding and then just let go

you have to stay with it and see what's

happening in the way of

a memory or situation or something that

you did or whatever it might have been

and then say it again i forgive you for

not i forgive myself for not

understanding and feel the experience

of you know having let go of that

there's a there's a release that is

experienced

that happens when you say i forgive

myself for not understanding that should

help you stay with that with that

verbalization process

yeah um sometimes this happens like

there's like this tension like i

i don't just feels like the mind is like

getting stiller and so i'm still

verbalized and then it's it's like

there's this tension between the mind

stilling down the verbalization

and then if i

if i keep meditating through that i tend

to get like headaches and feel often

feel off when i quit meditating

so you're saying if you feel the

stillness

and there's a tension arising because

you want to let go of that stillness and

stay with the verbalizing

yeah it's like um there's like the mind

is settling down and at the same time

i'm like still verbalizing and there's

like this tension between the two

i would say that and don't don't take

this out of the wrong context i'm saying

the mind should not be settling down to

that level it should just be verbalizing

i forgive you

not understanding and just

it's it's less of a feeling meditation

at least this is what i'm saying based

on my discussions with david and bonte

it's less of a feeling meditation and

more of a verbalizing meditation because

the experience of the relief that you

feel happens after the meditation then

you feel lighter because you're

forgiving it's just like when i say i

forgive you

i forgive you that's it you know if

somebody says

somebody tells me they forgive me they

just forgive me that's it so the feeling

comes up afterwards the recognition the

recognition or the understanding that

you are forgiven gives the rise to an

experience of release gives rise to an

experience of abandoning

any kind of ill will that might be there

any kind of blockages

due to that experience that might be

there

but every so often just keep saying the

uh say the words

continue with that verbalizing

there's nothing you feel here you feel

after having done the forgiveness

meditation you feel that relief you feel

that release

[Music]

in the instructions for the forgiveness

did you find that where i found the most

recent one he put together was

the instructions for the forgiveness he

basically is um

is saying to you that when you say your

phrase okay

you have to pause and let it sink in

and just watch inside and watch your

mind

for something to happen okay

you have to take your time with this

it's not i say the phrase that somebody

comes up

i i described this when i was trying to

do a full retreat on their forgiveness

which i don't want to do anymore right

now because i use it as a stop for

breaking up blockage more more that way

but

when when we were doing that i would

describe it to them as you have a bunch

of horses in your head and there's a

corral like this it's locked and the

gate the hook is on the gate

okay and what you're doing is convincing

your mind it's okay for you to forgive

and by saying the phrase over and over

again then your mind begins to believe

you

nelson do you feel like this whole thing

this whole practice and teaching people

either

the six hours or the forgiveness is

teaching people a communication system

with their mind

it's a new way to communicate with your

mind and get it to cooperate with you

but it has to trust it when you are

doing these things in the training that

it's okay for you the mind has to

believe that because it's part of your

protection system in the human body

yeah yeah the way i see this whole

process i mean the forgiveness i haven't

actually taught anyone forgiveness so

anything i say to you um jared just take

it with a grain of salt i'm just telling

you what i have learned from bante or

had discussions from with bhante and and

david

but as far as i understand

whether it's the six hours or whether

it's forgiveness

it is a process of

re-reconditioning

because even the eightfold path is

conditioned it's a process of

reconditioning so that you continue to

let go it's a process of changing the

way your mind sees reality

and ultimately coming to a point where

you see things as they really are

when we say you know things as they

really are it means that there's no

projection of self there's no projection

of craving there's no projection of

expectations there's no prejudgment

going on nothing like that and so the

forgiveness tool

is a way to lighten the mind is a way to

let go of certain blockages and it's

only temporary it's only for a short

period of time

where then the mind intuits that okay

now it's time to go back to

the practice of radiating loving

kindness or radiating compassion or

whatever it might be and you'll know it

because you'll feel it um and and to

sister kama's point which is

you stay say the phrase

and you wait and see what comes up and

then

say it again by letting it go when you

say it again to them you let it go so

it's a process of just saying it and

then waiting

and then forgiving them

forgiving any distractions and relaxing

so bonte has said forgive and relax

those are really the two things that

he's doing here

but that is that should only be seen as

a way to come back to loving kindness or

compassion or your your formal

meditation and then from there the

process of the six hours is all about

reconditioning uh the mind so that it

suffers less and ultimately

doesn't suffer anymore at all

okay so i've been talking for a long

time let's uh

share some merit my voice is starting to

get a little dry so

may suffering ones be suffering free and

the fear struck fearlessly may the

grieving shed all grief and may all

beings find relief

may all beings share this merit that we

have thus acquired for the acquisition

of all kinds of happiness

may beings inhabiting space and earth

devas and nagas of mighty power share

this merit of ours

may they long protect the buddha's

dispensation

sadhu saudi

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

right so this is majaminikaya 22

it's the

allah

a simile of the snake

that's have i heard on one occasion the

blessed one was living at salvati

in jethro's grove another pindicus park

now on that occasion a pernicious view

had arisen in a bike named arvita

formerly of the vulture killers thus

oh he had this view thus

as i understand the dhamma taught by the

blessed one

those things called obstructions by the

blessed one are not able to obstruct one

who engages in them

that's a pretty bad view because what

he's saying is when he talks about

obstructions he's talking about sensual

pleasures

and what he's saying is

those sensual pleasures

won't obstruct somebody who engages

in them

with the intention or his intention is

that

i can go ahead and indulge in sensual

pleasures and it's not going to affect

me i'm not going to be affected by them

and

i'm not going to attach to them or i'm

not going to have aversion to them

but having that kind of a view

as we'll see is a pernicious view

because

it can cause a person to act on their

underlying tendencies

and therefore cause the arising of

craving clinging being and so on

because what we have to understand is

that the feeling whether it's painful

pleasant or neutral

is just a feeling it's how you react to

the feeling which will convey whether

there will be

uh any kind of craving or clinging

but here this person arita is under the

idea or under the impression that if he

engages with them

makes it

makes it something more than their they

are which is just an impersonal feeling

and engages with them by taking them

personally it's not going to affect him

but we'll see what goes on

several bikus having heard about this

went to the biku arita and asked him

friend arita is it true that such a

pernicious view has arisen in you

[Music]

exactly so friends as i understand the

dhamma taught by the blessed one

those things called obstructions by the

blessed one are not able to obstruct one

who engages in them

then these beakers desiring to detach

him from that pernicious view pressed

and questioned and cross questioned him

thus

friend aretha do not say so do not

misrepresent the blessed one

it is not good to misrepresent the

blessed one the blessed one would not

speak thus or in many ways the blessed

one has stated how obstructive things

are obstructions

and how they are able to obstruct one

who engages in them

the blessed one has stated that sensual

pro sensual pleasures provide little

gratification

much suffering and despair

and that the danger in them is still

with the simile of the snake with the

simile of the piece of meat with the

simile of the grass torch

with the simile of the pit of coals

with the simile of the dream

with the simile of the borrowed goods

with the simile of the fruits on a tree

with the simile of the butcher's knife

and block with the simile of the sword

stake

and

with the simile of the snake's head the

blessed one has stated that sensual

pleasures provide little gratification

much suffering and despair

and that the danger in them is still

so i was just going through these

similes and the first seven similes with

the simile of the skeleton with the

simile of the piece of meat

the simile of the grass torch the pit of

coals of the dream

of borrowed goods and the fruits on a

tree

these can be found in majminikaya 54

and the buddha goes through each of them

to explain

how they are in relation to sensual

pleasures

now if i remember correctly the

butcher's uh knife and block and the one

with the sword stake in the snake's head

is probably in the

the suit that right after this which is

the ant hill suit though but we'll go

through it a little by little

yet although pressed and questioned and

crossed questioned by those beakers in

this weighing beku arita formerly of the

vulture killers

still obstinately adhere to that

pernicious view and continue to insist

upon it

since the bikus were unable to detach

him from that pernicious view they went

to the blessed one and after paying

homage to him they sat down at one side

and told him all that had occurred

adding

venerable sir since we could not detach

the biku arita formerly of the vulture

killers from this pernicious view

we have reported this matter to the

blessed one

then the blessed one addressed a certain

bee kudus kambiku tell the biku aretha

formerly of the vulture killers in my

name

that the teacher calls him

yes venerable sir he replied

and he went to the beaker arita and told

him

the teacher calls you friend arita

yes friend he replied and he went to the

blessed one and after paying homage to

him sat down at one side

the blessed one then asked him arita

is it true that the pernicious following

pernicious view has arisen in you

as i understand the dhamma taught by the

blessed one those things called

obstructions by the blessed one

are not able to obstruct one who engages

in them

exactly so venerable sir as i understand

the dharma taught by the blessed one

those things called obstructions by the

blessed one are not able to obstruct one

who engages them

misguided men to whom have you ever

known me to teach the dharma in that way

misguided man have i not stated in many

ways how obstructive things are

obstructions and how they are able to

obstruct one who engages in them

i have stated that

sensual pleasures provide little

gratification

much suffering and despair

and that the danger in them is still

with the simile of the skeleton with the

simile of the piece of meat with the

simile of the grass torch with the

simile of the pit of coals with the

simile of the dream

with the simile of the borrowed goods

with the simile of fruits on a tree with

the simile of the butcher's knife and

block and with the simile of the sword

stake and the simile of the snake's head

i have stated that sensual pleasures

provide little gratification

much suffering and despair and that the

danger in them is still more

but you misguided man by your own grasp

have misrepresented us

injured yourself and stored up much

demerit

for this will lead to your harm and

suffering for a long time

so this whole process of dressing down

narita in this way is very similar to

majuminikaya 38 where sati son of a

fisherman has that view that

consciousness is

unified and one consciousness that

transmigrates from one

one lifetime to the next uh so this is

very similar in in terms of the way it's

structured but here we are talking about

aretha formerly of the vulture killers

as he's known

then the blessed one addressed the bikus

das bikus what do you think

has this biku arita formerly of the

vulture killers kindle even a spark of

wisdom

in this dhamma and discipline

how could he venerable sir no venerable

sir when this was said the biku aretha

formerly of the vulture killers

sat silent dismayed with shoulders

drooping and head down

glum and without response

then knowing this the blessed one told

him misguided man you will be recognized

by your own pernicious view i shall

question the beakers on this matter

then the blessed one addressed the

because thus

because do you understand the dhamma

taught by me

as this bhikkhu or aretha formerly of

the vulture killers does when by his

wrong grasp he misrepresents us injures

himself and stores up much to merit

no venerable sir

or in many ways the blessed one has

stated how obstructive things are

obstructions and how they are able to

obstruct one who engages in them

the blessed one has stated that sensual

pleasures provide little gratification

much suffering and despair and that the

danger in them is still more

with the simile of the skeleton with the

simile of the snake's head and so on

the blessed one has stated

that the danger in them is still more

good because

it is good that you understand the

dhamma taught by me thus

or in many ways i have stated how

obstructive things are obstructions and

how they are able to obstruct one who

engages in them

i have stated that sensual pleasures

provide little gratification

much suffering and despair and that the

danger in them is still more

with the simile of the skeleton and so

on i have stated that the danger in them

is still more

but this biku aretha formerly of the

vulture killers

by his wrong grasp misrepresents us

injures himself and stores up much

demerit

or this will lead to this misguided

man's harm and suffering for a long time

because that one who that one can engage

in sensual pleasures without sensual

desires

without perceptions of sensual desires

without thoughts of sensual desire

that is impossible

so let's break that down he says that

one can engage in sensual pleasures

without sensual desires

without perception of sensual desire

without thoughts

of sensual desire that is impossible

so we understand from the scope of

dependent origination that feeling

whether it's painful pleasant or neutral

can give rise to craving

but that is only if you engage in those

experiences and when we say engage we're

being very specific here what we're

saying is

taking that feeling that sensual

experience as being personal

once you start taking it personal

there is craving liable to arise

there is a version liable to arise there

is further identification with that

experience

and that brings about the perceptions

of that craving aversion

or identification

and so

there will be thoughts of that sensual

desire in the form of clinging this is

really what the buddha is talking about

when you take a feeling to be personal

whatever feeling it might be

if you take it to be personal then you

are no longer having mindfulness of it

you're taking it personal you're taking

it as me mine or myself

and in doing so

you bring up conceit you bring up

ignorance you bring up craving and

therefore there is the thoughts

and when you talk about thoughts or

thinking

that process of thinking happens in the

link of clinging

which starts the ideation and

conceptualization process of why it is

that you like what you like or why it is

what you don't like is what you don't

like and so on and so forth

now we're going to get into the simile

of the snake

before we do what's also important to

understand is sensual desire or sensual

central pleasures as we are

we're reading about

this is really in regards to

the five physical senses but that calls

the five physical senses the

the chords of sensual pleasures

but it's through the mind through the

mental realm that you experience higher

pleasures higher mental good feelings

which come in the form of love and

kindness for example or compassion or

joy or equanimity and ultimately give

you the experience of the factors of the

jhanas the more somebody is able to do

this the more somebody actually really

is able to master the janas

and experience the jhanas in such a way

that they will

see central pleasures

the less uh

they'll see central pleasures in a way

that is

less interesting

the more they're in ghana the less the

central pleasures become interesting and

eventually

you know there's a level of

disenchantment with sensual experiences

that

they no longer are engaged with as me

mine or myself so that means the

collectedness has given rise

to an experience of disenchantment and

that this enchantment continues to

inform the mindfulness in every moment

when there is an experience so that

somebody is aware of the three

characteristics of existence of that

experience

meaning that experience is impermanent

and not worth holding on to and

therefore not me mine or myself when

that happens

a person does not react

towards the underlying tendency towards

aversion or craving or ignorance or any

of the other

seven underlying

tendencies

when that happens they won't have

craving and therefore they won't have

clinging being and the rest of suffering

the birth of action and suffering and so

dear because some misguided men learned

the dharma discourses stanzas exposition

versus exclamations sayings birth

stories marvels and answers to questions

but having learned the dharma they do

not examine the meaning of those

teachings

with wisdom

not examining the meaning of those

teachings with wisdom they do not gain a

reflective acceptance of them instead

they learn the dhamma only for the sake

of criticizing others and for winning in

debates and they do not experience the

good for the sake of which they learn

the dhamma

those teachings being wrongly grasped by

them

and used to their harm and suffering for

a long time why is that

because of the wrong grasp of those

teachings

suppose a man needing a snake seeking

the snake wandering in search of a snake

the eyelash name and breast oil

oils or its tail

it would turn back on him and bite his

hand or his arm or because one of his

limbs

and because of that he would come to

death or deadly surf suffering

why is that because of this wrong grasp

of the snake

so to hear some misguided men learn the

dharma and so on

because of

and they're not able to grasp it because

of the wrong grasp of those teachings

so really what this is pointing out to

is the fact that you might go to the

suda's you might go to the jataka tales

you might go to the commentaries and

other places

and read

and then that's really just intellectual

knowledge that's really just book

learning

and that can give rise to clinging to

views as well and we're not

is to

having seen

the dhamma experience the dhamma and

still having some

amount of clinging to the dharma in the

form of the

in the form of seeing the dhamma as

being me mine or myself this is what

happens with the anagami

they take the dhamma and they make it

something more

than just

just an experience to be able to let go

of suffering and so there's reverence

for the dharma and so on you look at in

the pure abodes all of the anagamis are

the pure boats they have wonderful

reverence for the wonderful reverence

for the dhamma wonderful reverence for

the sangha but they're still attached to

the dharma as a thing as a thing to be

attached to so that's one level of

misunderstanding and wrong level of

grasping to to the teachings

but ultimately you go from wrong view to

right view to clinging to no views

in other words you're no longer even

identified with the understanding of

dependent origination or the experience

of the dhamma

but here what the buddha is specifically

talking about is people who read the

suttas without any kind of

experience as such in other words they

will read the sutas and interpret it in

a certain way for the sake of having

critical thinking and debates and things

like that this happened a lot in ancient

india where people would go through the

different vedas and different upanishads

and they would actually have debates and

they thought it was for the welfare for

the welfare of the people because people

would learn from those debates

but some of those debates became um

basically grounds for clinging to

certain views there was even a story of

how there was a debate that went on

where if somebody lost that debate they

would have to then toss themselves into

the river and so

all of these things for the sake of just

trying to prove i'm right and you're

wrong and all of these things they

continue to strengthen the clinging of

wrong to to the right view they continue

this

[Music]

you're taking the dhamma as something

you have to be proven you're taking the

dharma as something that needs to be

debated about rather than experienced

and as a tool to let go of suffering and

see suffering altogether

so then the buddha says here because

some clansmen learn the dharma and

discourse

[Music]

examine the meaning of those teachings

with wisdom

examining the meaning of those teachings

with wisdom they gain a reflective

acceptance of them they do not learn the

dhamma for the sake of criticizing

others and for winning in debates and

they experience the good for the sake of

which they learned the dhamma

those teachings being rightly grasped by

them conduce to their welfare and

happiness for a long time

why is that because of the right grasp

of those teachings

suppose a man eating a snake seeking a

snake

wandering in search of a snake saw a

large snake and caught it swiftly with a

cleft stick

and having done so grasped it rightly by

the neck

then although the snake might wrap its

coils around it his hand or his arms or

his limbs

still he would not come to death or

deadly suffering because of that why is

that

because of his right grasp of the snake

so to hear some klansmen learn of the

dharma and so on

but they grasp brightly because of the

right grasp of the teachings

therefore because when you understand

the meaning of my statements remember it

accordingly and when you do not

understand the meaning of my statements

then ask either me about it or those

because who are wise

now this is very important to understand

what what they're saying what he's

saying is

they examine those teachings or the

meaning of those teachings with wisdom

and gain a reflective acceptance of them

and whenever we have the word wise or

wisdom what we are talking about is the

experience of the four noble truths and

the experience of

dependent origination

your experience will inform you how to

how to interpret let's say the sutas and

what i mean by that is sometimes you'll

go to a certain suta

and you'll read it and you have no idea

what is being talked about or you have

very little understanding of what's

going on whatever it is that they're

talking about

but the more you are able to

meditate and go into jhana and

experience these things for yourself

you're seeing them for yourself how this

process arises how you let go of the

hindrances with the six hours how the

smiling strengthens the mindfulness and

then ultimately seeing how the links

independent origination arise

seeing the tiny formations seeing the

tiny consciousnesses arise and pass away

and so on all of this is from direct

experience and that direct experience

equals wisdom and so when you go back to

the teachings when you go back to the

reading of the sutras

you go back with a different

understanding it's like the experience

has unlocked a kind of code which helps

you decipher the meaning of the suttas

and because of that as the buddha says

they gain a reflective acceptance of

them so when you read the sutas just

take them for what they are but you

don't have to accept them just do it

yourself

see for yourself how this process works

and then by that your experience will

help you to confirm

what is being taught or talked about in

the suttas

so don't read the suttas because you

want to be book smart

be street smart through the experience

of meditation and then you'll be wise

and be able to then reflect correctly

and grasp correctly the teachings

because i shall show you how the dhamma

is similar to a raft being for the

purpose of crossing over not for the

purpose of grasping listen it and attend

closely to what i shall say

yes venerable sir the because replied

the blessed one said this

because suppose a man in the course of a

journey saw a great expanse of water

whose near shore was dangerous and

fearful and whose further

was safe and free from fear but there

was no no ferry boat or bridge for going

to the far shore

then he thought there is this great

expanse of water

who's near shore is dangerous and

fearful and is further sure is

safe and free from fear

but there is no ferry boat or bridge for

going to the far shore

suppose i collect grass

twigs branches and leaves and bind them

together into a raft and supported by

the raft and making an effort with my

hands and feet i got safely across to

the far shore and then the man collected

grass twigs branches and leaves and

bound them together into a raft

and supported by the raft and making an

effort with his hands and feet he got

safely across to the far shore then when

he had got across and had arrived at the

far shore he might think thus

this raft has been very helpful to me

since supported by it and making an

effort with my hands and feet i got

safely across to the far shore suppose i

were to hoist it on my head or load it

on my shoulder

and then go wherever i want now because

what do you think by doing so would that

man be doing what should be done with

that raft no venerable sir

by doing what would

by doing what would that man be doing

what

should be done with that raft

sorry by doing what would that man be

doing

what should be done with that raft

here because when the ma when that man

got across and arrived at the far shore

he might think thus

this raft has been very helpful to me

since supported by it and making an

effort with my hands and feet i got

safely across to the far shore

suppose i were to

haul it onto the dry land

and set it adrift in the water

and then go wherever i want now because

it is by doing so that the man would be

doing what should be done with that raft

so i have shown you how the dhamma is

similar to a raft

being for the purpose of crossing over

not for the purpose of grasping

because when you know the dhamma to be

similar to a raft

you should abandon even the teachings

how much more so contra so how much more

so things contrary to the teachings

so in other words

when you experience something wonderful

in jannah or whenever you experience

something like the way of wisdom you

have an attainment or see the links that

depend origination

that's wonderful

but don't make it a big deal

don't get attached to it don't make that

a source of grasping

don't make the dhamma a source of

grasping the dhamma the experience of

the dhamma is for letting go of

suffering

if you grasp wrongly and start clinging

to the dhamma there is still some

suffering that will arise

it won't be through any kind of sensual

craving but it can be for

clinging to the dharma clinging to right

view it can be for craving to be

in a certain state whether it's a jhana

or any other kind of experience rooted

in the dharma

and when that happens then there is a

self which

connects with that dharma which makes

that dharma as me or mine or myself

and because of that there are views that

arise that are that need to be defended

there are insights that arise that need

to be

defended there are concepts and ideas

which then becomes sources for debates

and quarrels and all kinds of things

and when you notice this

if you notice this in your own practice

that you have

attendance

somebody who says something about the

dhamma to

to criticize them because they have

wrong understanding instead of saying

well have you considered it this way

have you thought about it this way or

you know i've heard about it in this way

so there is a way there's a method in

understanding the dharma and being able

to explain the dhamma in a way that is

kind and courteous and intentionally

wholesome but if you go ahead and become

pri uh proud and conceited about the

dharma and say now this is the only way

i know it to be

and this is the way you should be doing

then you are clinging to views

and so now that is the wrong grasping of

the teachings

and so the

and so the buddha says

because there are these six standpoints

for views

what are the standpoints

here be accused an untaught ordinary

person who has no regard for noble ones

and is unskilled and undisciplined in

their dharma

who has no regard for true men and is

unskilled and undisciplined in their

dharma regards material formed us this

is mine this i am this is myself

he regards feelings thus

this

is mine this i am this is myself he

regards perception thus

this is mine this i am this is myself he

regards formations thus

this is mine this i am this is myself he

regards what is seen heard since

cognized encountered sought mentally

pondered thus

this is mine this i am this is myself

the last israeli all about consciousness

awareness of what is seen

awareness of what is heard awareness of

the other sixth sense

the rest of the sixth sense faces and so

on and this standpoint for views namely

namely that which is the self is the

world

after i shall be permanent everlasting

eternal not subject to change i shall

endure as long as eternity this too he

regards thus this is mine this i am this

is myself so this is that viewpoint that

eternalist viewpoint where i am the

athman i am the self and when i die

according to this view when i die

i will become one with brahman one with

cosmic consciousness and i will be

forever immortal and eternal and so on

but there's a lot of

inconsistencies in that view because

that view considers there to be a

permanent self

and if self by definition is supposed to

be permanent and everlasting and

unchanging

then you cannot consider any of these

including the view of this idea of the

personal permanent self to be

to be permanent you cannot because

material form continues to change

feelings continue to change in every

moment perceptions continue to change in

every moment formations and

consciousnesses arise and pass away in

every moment

and so that cannot be considered to be

self the view itself that there is a

self that is permanent and everlasting

arises as a form of a mental

idea that is subject to be experienced

through the process of the mind

and whatever is tied to the experience

of the sixth sense faces which includes

the mind

is dependent upon causes and conditions

and whatever is dependent upon the sixth

sense basis

is liable to change and therefore even

this idea is liable to change it cannot

be considered

something that is independent or outside

the scope of dependent origination

because a well-taught noble disciple who

has regard for noble ones and is skilled

and disciplined in their dhamma who has

regard for true men and is skilled and

disciplined in their dharma

regards material form thus this is not

mine this i am not this is not myself

he regards feeling thus this is not mind

this i am not this is not myself now he

regards perception thus

this is not mine this i am not this is

not myself

he regards formations thus this is not

mine this i am not this is not myself he

regards what is seen heard

sensed cognized encountered sought

mentally pondered thus

this is not mine this i am not this is

not myself

and this standpoint for views namely

that which is the self is the world

after death i shall be permanent

everlasting eternal not subject to

change

i shall endure as long as eternally this

too he regards thus this is not mine

this is this i am not this is not myself

since he regards them thus he is not

agitated about what is non-existent

when this was said

a certain coup and blessed one venerable

sir can there be agitation about what is

non-existent externally there can be

beku the blessed one said yarabiku

someone thinks dust alas i had it

alas i have it no longer

alas may i have it unless alas i do not

get it

then he sorrows greaves and laments he

weeps speeding his breast and becomes

distraught

this is how there is agitation

about what is not

what about what is non-existent

externally

venerable sir can there be

no agitation about what is non-existent

externally

there can be beku the blessed one said

hirabiku someone does not think thus

alas i had it alas i have it no longer

alas may i have it unless alas i do not

get it

then he does not sorrow grieve and

lament he does not weep

beating his breast and becoming

distraught that is how there is no

agitation about what is non-existent

externally

when he talks about what is non-existent

externally what he's talking about this

idea of the brahman this idea about the

supreme cosmic consciousness

if you are experiencing it you are

experiencing it within the scope of the

sixth sense basis namely the mind

if it's a mental experience and you take

that to be something myself or mine or

myself and so on

then when you grasp it you have it when

it goes away you realize i don't have it

anymore and that is liable to cause

suffering but if somebody grasps it

correctly which is actually through not

grasping that is to say understanding

correctly that this experience is just

tied to the experience of mind and

therefore should not be worth holding on

to because it is impersonal

it is not mine it is not me it is not

myself

and they won't have any kind of ideas

about

something being there something not

being there

having been there done they just see

that as an impersonal process

so when they see it this way they won't

have any craving they won't have any

clinging they won't have any being

they won't have birth of new karma new

action and therefore further suffering

and so on

venerable sir can there be

agitation about what is non-existent

internally there can be beku the blessed

one says said

hirobiku someone has the view that which

is the self is the world after death i

shall be permanent everlasting eternal

not subject to change i shall endure as

long as eternity

he hears that

teachings

the

tata teaching the dharma for the

elimination of all standpoints

decisions

obsessions adherences and underlying

tendencies

for the stilling of all formations

or the relinquishing of all attachments

or the destruction of craving

or dispassion for cessation for nibana

he thinks thus

so i shall be annihilated so i shall

perish

so i shall be no more then he sorrows

grieves and laments

he weeps beating his breast and becomes

distraught that is how there is

agitation about what is non-existent

internally

venerable sir can there be no agitation

about what is non-existent internally

there can be beku the blessed one said

you're the biku hirabiku someone does

not have the view that which is the

world itself and i shall endure as long

as eternity

he hears that

or the disciple of the taga teaching the

dhamma for the elimination of all

standpoints decisions

obsessions adherences and underlying

tendencies

for the stilling of all formations for

the relinquishing of all attachments for

the destruction of craving for this

passion for cessation for nibana he does

not think thus so i shall be annihilated

so i shall perish

so i shall be known more

then he does not sorrow grieve and

lament he does not weep beating his

breast and become distraught this is how

there is no agitation about what is

non-existent

internally

so here first we talked about externally

this idea of a cosmic consciousness or

this idea of

some kind of larger self

there's also the idea of the atman there

is that which exists internally within

the body

controlling everything that's going on

this is really what the open issues talk

about they say that the

um the hearer the seer the the the one

who listens

the one who who uh who who smells and

tastes and so on is the atman is the

soul

and uh just a brief aside

of the bar cloth was somebody who had

that understanding from the upanishads

that the seeing the seer and so on

the cognizing the cognizer and so on

these are all part of self part of

athman

and the buddha understood this when he

came to the buddha but he asked him to

give him the teaching to become an

arahant and the buddha said

in the hearing there is only the herd in

the seeing there is only the scene in

the sensing there is only the sense

in the cognizing there is only the

cognized when there is no self

before that

when there is no self in it or any self

after it

then that just is the cessation of

suffering so in the same way here what

the buddha is saying somebody has the

standpoint or the view that i am the

self

i am the independent self that is not

able to be killed and so on and so forth

and so when they come across this

understanding of the dhamma and

nibana

they take that to be annihilationism

and when that happens they see this as

being an annihilationist view but in

truth

the idea that there was a self and then

the self is destroyed and so on is a

wrong view because in truth the idea of

a self in itself

is dependent upon causes and conditions

take away and cease the causes and

conditions and there is no self to begin

with

but that understanding that insight into

the experience of anata

doesn't lead to annihilationism it leads

to the cessation of suffering

so somebody doesn't hold that view

that's what's going to happen they can

correctly grasp the teaching and see

this that it doesn't matter whether

there is a self or not self that's not a

question to be looked at that's not a

question to be understood the question

should be

how does

how does cessation how does suffering

arise and how does it cease

because it's in the process of

independent origination where things are

taken personal as self that the craving

arises and then through that process the

clinging and the being and then from

that sense of self the action that

arises is liable to cause suffering but

when you see it for what it really is

that that this whole process

is impersonal then you're not going to

be causing yourself suffering or

yourself meaning you're not going to

have suffering there's not going to be

an experience of suffering because i

won't be craving clean being or any of

the links that lead to suffering in that

sense

when you're in the practice when you're

deep in quiet mind oftentimes

there will be some kind of a fear that

arises just before cessation happens

and that is the clinging of conceit that

is the formation of

i am

that subtlest formation of i am

is what causes the fear because you're

still taking this to be an impersonal

process

and that clutching to it when you feel

like you're falling when you feel like

everything is going to cease there are

people who describe it in such a way

that they feel like they're going to die

and why they say that or why they feel

that is because they're still coming

from that sense of self

so when you do come across this

experience of cessation just before let

see the fear as being arising because of

that subtle formation of i am

and just relax it and let it go and keep

letting it go and

there won't be any fear and there won't

be any reaction

to that experience prior to the

to the cessation

of perception feeling and consciousness

when there is no fear there won't be any

agitation there won't be any uh clinging

to it linking to this false notion of

self that prevents you or prevents the

mind from experiencing the sensation of

suffering

because that's where that wrong view of

self is holding on to the idea that if i

let go now i'm no longer going to be

alive

and that's true because the self

is impermanent

the idea of consciousness arises and

passes away

an understanding

that the self

as you understand the self to be

impermanent arises and passes away in

every moment and eventually after having

actually seen for yourself

that this is an impersonal process you

no longer put any kind of notion of self

to it and you ultimately experience the

cessation of perception feeling and

consciousness

because you may well acquire that

possession that is

permanent everlasting

eternal not subject to change and that

might endure as long as eternity

but do you see any such possession

because no venerable sir that's an

interesting question so the buddha

starts off with saying you may well

acquire that possession

it's almost like a trick question and he

says

you see that and they say no venerable

sir good because because i too do not

see any possession that is permanent

everlasting eternal

not subject to change and that might

endure as long as eternity

because you may well cling to that

doctrine of self that would not arouse

sorrow lamentation pain grief and

despair in one who clings to it again

it's a true question do you see any such

doctrine of self because

no venerable serb good because i too do

not see any doctrine of self that would

not arouse

sorrow lamentation pain grief and

despair in one who clings to it

because you may well take as a support

that view that would not arouse sorrow

lamentation pain grief and despair in

one who takes it as a support

but do you see any such supportive views

because no venerable sir good because i

too do not see any support for views

that would not arouse

sorrow lamentation pain grief and

despair

and one who takes it as a support that

means even right view you don't want to

take it as a support

see it as the raft it gets you across to

the other shore gets you

away from suffering and ceases suffering

and that's basically what it's used for

don't use that as a standpoint

as a foundation where from which you

cling to that view

because

there being a self

would therefore would there be for me

what belongs to a self yes venerable sir

there being what belongs to his self

would there be for me a self yes

venerable sir

since the self and what belongs to

yourself are not apprehended as true and

established

then this standpoint for views namely

that which is the self is the world

after death i shall be permanent

everlasting eternal

not subject to change i shall endure as

long as eternity

would it not be an utterly and

completely foolish teaching

what else could it be venerable sir but

an utterly and completely foolish

teaching

because what do you think is material

form permanent or impermanent

impermanent venerable sir

is what is impermanent suffering or

happiness

suffering venerable sir

is what is uh impermanent suffering and

subject to change fit to be

regarded thus this is mine this is this

i am this is myself

no venerable sir

because what do you think is feeling is

perception are formations is

consciousness permanent or impermanent

impermanent venerable sir

is what is impermanent suffering or

happiness suffering interval sir

is what is impermanence suffering and

subject to change fit to be regarded

thus

this is mine this i siyam this is myself

no venerable sir

therefore because any form or any kind

of material form whatever whether past

future or present internal or external

brass or subtle

inferior or superior far or near

all material form should be seen as it

actually is with proper wisdom thus

this is not mine this i am not this is

not myself

any kind of feeling whatsoever any kind

of perception any kind of formations

any kind of consciousness whatsoever

whether past

future or present

internal or external gross or subtle

inferior or superior

far or near all consciousness all all

consciousness and the rest of the

aggregates

that is to say feeling perception and

formations

should be seen as it actually is with

proper wisdom thus

this is not mine this i am not this is

not myself

seeing thus because a well-taught noble

disciple becomes disenchanted with form

disenchanted with feeling disenchanted

with perception is enchanted with

formations disenchanted with

consciousness

being disenchanted he becomes

dispassionate

through this passion his mind is

liberated so what we're talking about

here is

yes you might see formations arise in

your practice when you get to the quiet

mind but eventually all of these things

just become

disinteresting they become uninteresting

anymore

because of that there's disenchantment

and you're no longer interested in any

of that you're now just with your object

and you let go of any kind of

formation of i am you're not even

disinterested in you're disenchanted

with that as well and eventually that

leads its passion

and through that dispassion there is

cessation of

perception feeling and consciousness

and then there can be the mind that is

liberated

and so when it is liberated there comes

a knowledge it is liberated and so one

understands birth is

destroyed birth is destroyed in the

sense that there is not going to there's

not going to be any more new action

that is liable to cause new karma

a liberated mind sees all experiences as

old karma and therefore

doesn't hold on to it because it sees it

as being impersonal sees it as being

impermanent

because it sees it that way it won't

have any kind of clinging it won't have

any kind of grasping onto any underlying

tendency

because that's the case there won't be

any kind of craving there won't be any

kind of clinging and therefore there

won't be any kind of being from which

there can be birth of

new karma earth of new action

and ultimately on the macro level no

more rebirth that is how birth is

destroyed the holy one has been lived

what had to be done has been done there

is no more coming to any state of being

because in truth the arahant

has destroyed all all experience of

clinging to a sense of self in relation

any of the five aggregates

there is a definition of being in the

sutas which is one is considered a being

when there is any kind of identification

in relation to any of the five

aggregates

but the arahat sees the five aggregates

as they really are which is impersonal

so there is no more being in that mind

there is no sense of

being in that mind there's nothing to

defend there's nothing to

uh try to hold on to there's nothing

that is to be taken personal

there's so much relief and freedom in

such a mind

because these speed crew is called one

whose crossbar has been lifted whose

trench has been filled in

whose pillar has been uprooted

one who has no bolt

a noble one whose banner is lowered

whose burden is lowered who is

unfettered

and how is the beku one who whose

crossbar has been lifted

here the beku has abandoned ignorance as

cut it off at the root

made it like a palm stump done away with

so that it is no longer subject to

future arising

that is how the beku is the one whose

crossbar has been lifted when we talk

about ignorance we're talking about not

understanding the four noble truths

choosing not to see the four noble

truths in every moment

and that is because of lack of

mindfulness every time the mind slips

and doesn't have mindfulness it adds

energy back to the taint of ignorance

and therefore continues to add strength

to the link of ignorance which continues

to influence the formations that arise

but every time you 6r you regain your

mindfulness every time you are mindful

in the sense of seeing how your

attention moves how the mind's attention

moves and are able to see that process

as being impersonal and not taking it as

a self seeing it as impermanent that

attention that yoni so man is the car

that what i call

that's what i call

attention rooted in reality because it's

rooted in the understanding that this

experience right now

is impersonal that this experience right

now is impermanent and therefore not

worth holding on to every time a person

or being or a mind sees it in this way

they are

moving a

grinding way at aids

the mindfulness you have which is

maintaining your smile

using the six hours whenever craving or

clinging a rise

the more that happens the less there is

ignorance and ultimately wisdom arises

and how is the be crew one whose trench

has been filled in here the beku has

abandoned the round of birds that brings

renewed being has cut it off at the root

so that it is no longer subject to

future arising

rightly so when there is no more

ignorance and one has seen things as

they really are which is to say that

they understand that this is impermanent

this is

impersonal and not worth holding on to

then such a being has cut off any kind

of repeated patterns

when we think about rebirth rebirth

israeli on different levels

there is a rebirth when we talk about in

the arising and passing away of

consciousnesses in every moment

there is a larger level of rebirth from

one lifetime to another but there's a

rebirth that arises when you see that

you start to become acquainted with the

same kind of people and same kind of

situations

rebirth is another way of looking at

insanity definition of which is doing

the same thing over and over and again

expecting a different result

so you find yourself in certain kinds of

patterns or certain kind of situations

that you were in before

and if you have ignorance and you're not

able to see what that process is which

is impersonal and permanent and hold on

to an intention to react to it

there's liable to be rebirth of those

similar situations

but the moment you let go of it you're

not holding on to them and you're seeing

them as being impersonal

then you're whittling away at the old

karma of these situations eventually

if they arise again they won't be seen

as me mine or myself and eventually

won't be dealing with such situations

because the old karma is completely run

out

that is how the biku is one whose trench

has been filled in and how is the beku

one whose pillar has been uprooted

here the biku has abandoned craving has

cut it off at the root so that it no

longer so that it is no longer subject

to future or arising

this is how the be

is one whose pillar has been uprooted

can we talk about craving craving is

taking something to be personal and

seeing it as affecting a me on mine

myself

that is my uh possession i like it

because it makes me feel good i don't

like it because it's painful

or i identify in this way this is really

craving but they are not is one who

takes everything as impersonal and so

even a pleasant experience

painful experience it might hurt the

body but there won't be any agitation

there won't be any aggravation there

won't be any irritation because they're

not taking the body they're not taking

the mind they're not taking anything a

self

and so they have abandoned craving

altogether

and who how is uh the how is the beaker

one who has no bolt here the beku has

abandoned the five lower feathers has

cut them off

at the root

so that they are no longer subject to

future arising this is how the beaker is

one who has

no bolt we talk about the five lower

fetters when they have abandoned that

then you become another gun

that means when you become a sorapana

you let go of any kind of intellectual

belief in a personal self you understand

that this is indeed an impersonal

process

you let go of any doubt in the teaching

or that this is the path leading to

ibana and you let go of any kind of

rights or rituals

or clinging to any kind of rights and

rituals with the belief that they will

take you to nirvana

when you become asaka nagami you weaken

this the

better of sensual craving and you weaken

the fetter of aversion

when you become an onigami you have no

sensual craving coming up at all

and you have no aversion coming up at

all with the sakuragami they might

experience the arising of craving just a

little bit but then they're able to

immediately recognize it and 6r

with the onigami it doesn't happen at

all doesn't come up at all so this is

one who has

abandoned the five lower fetters

and how is the biku a noble one whose

banner is lowered

whose burden is lowered who is

unfettered

here ebike who has abandoned the conceit

i am has cut it off at the root

so that it is no longer subject

the future

arising that is how the beku is a noble

one whose banner is lord

whose burden is lord who is unfettered

you think about the five higher fetters

this is to say restlessness craving for

form realms craving for

being in formless realms

uh conceit and ignorance now consumers

already destroyed once you completely

understand the four noble truths and no

longer take anything to be personal

but

that's ignorance ignorance allows you to

see the

[Music]

the truth of the moment that is to say

you're able to see it in the context of

the four noble truths

you understand suffering you've

abandoned the craving that leads to

suffering you experience a cessation of

suffering and you have perfected the

eightfold path that leads to the

cessation of suffering this is how

ignorance is done away with now the

other three feathers the restlessness

the cling of the craving for being in

the form realm the craving for being in

a foreign is actually dependent upon

conceit

so when you cut off conceit

it's like a house of cards the other

feathers of restlessness

um of craving to be in a form room and

the craving to be uniformless from

completely demolished like a house of

cards

so that's because that sense of i am

arises when you want to be in a jhana or

you desire to be in a jhana or in a form

realm you desire to be in a rupa jana or

in a formless room or you just have

agitation with identifying with

something which could be even the dhamma

itself that this dharma is mine that's

the conceit

that's the restlessness that arises the

agitation from taking that to be mine

when the conceit goes away those

lower three feathers in the five ayah

fetters that restlessness

that craving to be in a form the craving

to be in a performance from those become

destroyed

because the gods with indra that is to

say saka in the tawa teams of heaven

with brahma and with prajapati seek a

beku who is thus liberated in mind they

do not find anything of which they could

say the consciousness of thus gone one

thus god is supported by this

why is that one thus god i say is

untraceable here and now

mind cannot be

understood completely at all they can't

it cannot be traced by the devas or by

the brahmas

that mind is empty of any kind of

clinging empty of any kind of conceit

and ignorance

when you think about the mind of an

arahat there is no sense of being if

there is no sense of being how could

there be a support

for this idea of such a person being

able to be found there's no more person

or personality in the sense of a self

wrong view of self arising in such a

mind

if you were to

let's say hook up

an arahat to the

eeg or any other brainwave detector or

whatever it might be of course there's

activity in that mind because there's

contact there's feeling and there's

perception

but there won't be any sense of self

there won't be any more conceit there's

not going to be any kind of ignorance

so i will venture to say that in that

sense when you do an fmri of a possible

arahant you won't see certain kinds of

networks in the brain

that would be active networks associated

with craving networks associated with

identification

networks associated with the wandering

mind

the arahat's mind is completely empty

it's completely

void of any kind of feather

so because of this it is completely

untraceable in that sense

so saying because so proclaiming i have

been

basis baselessly vainly falsely and

wrongly misrepresented by some recluses

and brahmanas thus

the recluse gotama is one who leads

astray he teaches the annihilation the

destruction the extermination of an

existing being

as i am not as i do not proclaim so have

i been

baselessly vainly falsely and wrongly

misrepresented by some recluses and

brahmins does

the reckless gautama is one who leads

astray he teaches the annihilation the

destruction the extermination of an

existing being

but because both formerly and now what i

teach is suffering and the cessation of

suffering

whenever the buddha says i teach

suffering and the cessation of suffering

he's talking about the arising of

dependent origination that is to say

they are rising from ignorance all the

way to

suffering

when he says suffering when he says

cessation of suffering he's talking

about the cessation of the links of

dependent origination

the cessation of craving which leads to

the cessation of suffering the cessation

clinging the cessation of being the

cessation of ignorance the cessation of

conceit and so on the cessation of

formations feathered by conceived

craving and ignorance

that is the cessation of create of

suffering

if others abuse revile scold and harass

the talgad for that

the taga on that account feels no

annoyance bitterness or dejection of the

heart and if others honor respect revere

and venerate the target for that

on that account

feels no delight joy or elation of the

heart

if others honor respect revere and

venerate the titan for that the tagat on

that account thinks thus

they perform such services as these for

me in regard to which

to this which earlier was fully

understood

therefore because if others abuse revile

scold and harass you on that account you

should not entertain any anoints

bitterness or dejection of the heart

and if others honor respect revere and

venerate you on that account you should

not entertain any delight joy or

relation of the heart

if others honor respect revere and

venerate you on that account you should

think thus they perform such services as

these

for us in regard to this which earlier

was fully understood

there therefore because whatever is not

yours abandon it and you have abandoned

it that will lead to your welfare and

happiness for a long time

what is it that is not yours

material form is not yours abandon it

when you have abandoned it that will

lead to your welfare and happiness for a

long time

feeling is not yours

perception is not yours

formations are not yours consciousness

is not yours abandon them

when you have abandoned them that will

lead to your welfare and happiness for a

long time

because what do you think if people

carried off the grass sticks branches

and leaves in this jetta grove or burned

them or did what they liked with them

would you think

people are carrying us off or burning us

or doing what they like with us

no venerable sir why not

because that is neither our self nor

what belongs to ourself so too because

whatever is not yours abandon it when

you have abandoned it that will lead to

your welfare and happiness for a long

time

what is it that is not yours form is not

yours feeling is not yours perception is

not yours

formations are not yours

consciousness is not yours

abandon it

when you have abandoned it that will

lead to your welfare and happiness for a

long time

because the dhamma well proclaimed by me

thus is clear open evident and free of

patchwork

in the dhamma well proclaimed by me thus

which is clear open evident and free of

patchwork

there is no future round for

manifestation in the case of those bekus

who are our hearts with pains destroyed

who have lived the holy life done what

had to be done

laid down the burden reached their own

goal destroyed the fetters of being

and are completely liberated through

final knowledge

because

the dhamma well proclaimed by me thus is

clear free of patchwork

in the dhamma well proclaimed by me thus

which is clear

free of patchwork those bikus who have

abandoned the five lower fetters that is

to say anagami's are all due to really

appear spontaneously in the pure abodes

and there attain parinabana final nibana

without ever returning from that world

because the

dhamma well proclaimed by me thus is

free clear of is clear free of patchwork

in the dharma well proclaimed by me thus

which is clear free of patchwork

those beakers who have abandoned three

feathers and attenuated lust hate and

delusion

are all once returners

returning once to this world and making

an end of suffering

because the dhamma well proclaimed by me

thus is clear free of patchwork

in the dhamma well proclaimed by me thus

which is clear free of patchwork those

beakers who have attained

who have abandoned three fetters are all

stream enterers

no longer subject to perdition meaning

they are no longer subject to rebirth in

lower realms the animal

the hungry ghosts

and the hell realms

and they are bound for deliverance it

can take up to seven lifetimes it can

take up to three lifetimes you could

even take up to one lifetime

and headed for enlightenment we talked

about that there's the sodapana who

accepts seven lifetimes

there is the sodapana who is known as

the

polankala and that kolankala means from

one family to another

and they'll take rebirth maybe three f

three lifetimes and there is what is

like a

is known as the akabija sort of that's

the one cedar soda panel this is like a

super soda panel which is

very much like a sakuragani but they

take birth in a human realm

and they can end up suffering right

there and then and attain final naivano

because the dhamma well proclaimed by me

thus is free clear free of patchwork in

the dhamma welcome well proclaimed by me

thus which is clear free of patchwork

those because who are dharma followers

or faith followers are all headed for

enlightenment

so dharma followers and faith followers

those are those who do some experience

have some experience with impermanence

and are bound for

island ibano they are stream enterers

actually because they have investigated

and the faculty

of uh

of the dhamma in terms of understanding

the dhamma is strong in the dhamma

followers and with the faith followers

their faculty of faith is stronger and

so they are called faith followers

because the dharma well proclaimed by me

thus is clear open evident and free of

patchwork

in the dhamma well proclaimed by me thus

which is freer which is clear open

evident and free of patchwork

those who have sufficient faith in me

sufficient love for me are all headed

for heaven

these are beings who have

uh conviction in the triple gem

conviction in the buddha and they

maintain their precepts but they haven't

had an attainment yet they haven't

deeply understood through wisdom and

insight and experience

through the process of the jhanas

through the path to nibana

and such beings will

because of their virtue because of their

faith and conviction

they are liable or they can be headed

for the deva realms for the sixth

centurious realms uh heavenly realms

this is what the blessed one said the

beakers were satisfied and delighted in

the blessed one's words

so does anyone have any questions

nelson

hi anthra how you doing good thanks

thank you very much for that

reading and discussion i really

appreciate it

now

thinking about the simile of the raft

and

my question is

in taking the triple gem which we

before setting

what attitude

uh is appropriate in taking the triple

gym

yeah

well for one like when when we go on

retreat and we have the taking of uh

refuge in the triple gem and uh

taking the five precepts or the eight

precepts or whatever that might be or at

home

it should be seen not as a rights and

rituals it should be seen

as a foundation for an uplifted mind

as soon as you take reverence for that

there is an uplifted mind which is

primed for meditation when you take the

precepts

you make a commitment

to remember to take to to follow the

precepts and that causes your mind to be

uplifted

and that creates

the grounds for very good meditation

practice

so i would say

you know even for like someone who has

crossed the str across the to the other

shore and let go of the raft that

doesn't mean that they don't have

reverence for the buddha the dhamma and

the sangha they definitely will still

have it

but they even see the buddha as being

obviously not self they seem they see

the dhamma as also being not self they

see the sangha as well as being not self

but there is still appreciation there's

still gratitude there's still

reverential uh

understanding

that the buddha went through such an

experience went through such a journey

and for that they have gratitude and

appreciation

that the dhamma is so so wonderful and

effective that it leads to this

experience of arahatship and for that

they have gratitude and that there is a

sangha a community that continues to

maintain that tradition and can be a

community of like-minded thinkers

where there can be discussion and

meditation and for that

there is uh reverential appreciation and

gratitude

but it seems to me that um

crossing the river with the raft um and

letting go of the wrath

that happens when you become an arahat

before you become an arahat you're still

clinging to the wrath because you

haven't finished the journey yeah

yeah so as long as some so so as long as

somebody is clinging to the raft which

is to say so as long as somebody is

taking the dharma to be

uh personal

making making things are concepts in the

dhamma that one understands as being a

big deal and seeing it more than it

actually is rather than just a raft to

let you

lead to the cessation of suffering

and that person still has clinging and

that person is not an arahania right

right

however if you're not an arahat there is

clinging to the wrath clinging to the

dhamma because

without doing that you're gonna fall

into the street into the stream and not

ever get across

yes seems like

so what i'm taking away from this is

that

taking the triple gem whether you're

you're just a worldly being or whether

you're an arahat you take it with a

sense of gratitude

yes

this is how i understand it

nelson i have a question for you

yes um

let me talk to you a little bit about

the nogles

oh there we go yeah

there it is

can you give some explanation of what

naga means and what these nagas are what

the naga realm is and are they here

well they're not here in this room right

now but

how do you know

nagas are nagas are known not only in

buddhism but also

in ancient india they were known as

these beings

who resided in what is known as the

realm of the four great kings

but they they can be

experienced in this particular realm

which is to say the human plane of

existence

and nagas

they're basically reptilian in nature or

they're snake-like beings and that's why

even the snakes in india are known in

some ways as nagas or nagini nagini

being the female form and the reason

being is because the snakes or reptiles

have a certain cold-blooded attitude

about things

uh in the same way the nagas actually

the nagas are not able to experience

loving-kindness not experience able to

experience warmer emotions

they're cold and calculating and they're

very protective of the dharma

interestingly enough

uh they have reverence and and so on but

it's it's a very

cold and calculating way of doing it

now

the nagas are also shape-shifters

shape-shifters in the sense like you

have

this concept of reptilians and things

like that that can shape-shift

absolutely they can shape-shift that's

why one of the we talked about this last

time i think where

one of the questions that is asked when

you ordain is are you an animal or are

you a naga uh pretending to be or

impersonating a human

for the very fact that uh there was a

story where there was a naga who

impersonated a human

took ordination and then

late at night when he slept when he was

asleep he changed back to his usual naga

form which is pretty scary i mean it

looks

like a reptilian they have very weird

snake-like eyes and scaly skin and all

kinds of reptilian features

so that definitely scared some of the

monks and there was a rule in the

vineyard that that's one of the

questions that should be asked which is

are you a naga

but there's another understanding that

arahat's also known as nagas not for the

fact that they are reptilian or anything

like that not for the fact that they are

cold and calculating it's because

naga is a contraction of two words in

sanskrit and pali so the na which is uh

and guna means innocent or good so

argona means not innocent or guilty or

blameworthy

and so when you contract these two it's

na aguna naga

one who is blameless and innocent

meaning they have no more fetters they

have no more conceit or other kinds of

feathers that can cause them to be blame

worthy of an action

that's one understanding now are the

reptilians here are the naga here

i mean i've heard stories of them being

in walmart and somebody told me that

they were they saw them at a walmart but

you know i can neither confirm nor deny

that but

but you can encounter them uh there was

a story i i was saying that uh one time

while i was in cambodia

now this is one of those really weird

stories so

you can take it with a grain of salt and

if you want to believe it you can

believe it you don't want to believe it

that's okay

but uh i i was at a i was

staying at my dad's hotel and uh he had

this guy who was uh who was working for

him and he just gave off this really

cold calculating vibes and just just

very

on the surface not very warm and things

like that and i had a realization that

this person is actually a naga and i

actually weirdly enough confronted them

about it

and they said yes

and and

they left they just went away they

realized okay i'm caught

i might as well go so they're around you

know they they can appear in human form

and uh

it's possible that uh

you might encounter one but you won't

know it you if you really look for

certain kinds of elements of what makes

up a naga you wouldn't really know it

you mean the black eyes

[Laughter]

well they can have black eyes they can

have uh

like snake-like eyes like the reptilian

features uh those kinds of things so

nagas will have different colored eyes

and things like that but yeah you're

talking about the children of the black

eyes who have nothing but the black eyes

they can appear in that way too in the

same way you see snakes of different

colored eyes as well you'll see in the

same way for nagas

okay

hi delson

thank you for your talk as insightful as

always nice to see you

i'm wondering if you can elaborate a

little bit

on suffering

uh and the reason why i ask is because i

came across the suture a few years ago

uh you know where

the buddha says because both formerly

now what i teach is suffering and the

cessation of suffering

right so that spoke to me you know a few

years ago i was like great you know

suffering around work suffering around

raising kids you know

lay life all these things are that i

consider suffering

but with the explanation today seem like

the buddha's talking about

the idea of suffering is much more

narrow in some ways

uh even though there's a lot more to it

uh in other words so what i thought

about suffering when i first came to

this path

all right seems to be like not quite

what the buddha's talking about

uh when i think of like i wanted my

suffering i think i don't want any more

troubles at work or troubles with my

co-workers or you know these kind of

mundane sufferings if you will but the

buddha seems to be talking about a whole

other level or type of suffering so can

if you can just help i guess it help me

understand like what that level is and

if is there a way to bridge you know

what i think of as mundane suffering

with what the buddha is really offering

to us

yeah so i i guess it depends on which

suture you read but i know that uh in um

the greater discourse on the four

foundations of mindfulness uh which is

which is uh

which is indiga nikaya i can't remember

which which number it is it's either 14

or 15. i i can't remember which one but

uh in there there's a really good

explanation of the forefront of the four

foundations of mindfulness and within

that

the four noble truths

and the buddha goes and says you know he

talks about suffering and he goes

through each of the different kinds of

suffering suffering includes illness

suffering includes sick aging suffering

includes death

getting what you don't want not getting

what you want

all of these things are suffering so

there's a whole like sort of list of

things so you might want to look at it

it's the mahasati patana so suffering is

also a

unpleasant feeling that's suffering as

well but that's old suffering that's why

i keep delineating it between old and

new which is

everything leading up to a feeling which

is which can be a pleasant or painful or

neutral feeling

is old karma if you add to it by craving

for it or averting against it or

identifying with it then there's new

suffering in the form of or new karma in

the form of craving clinging being birth

of action and uh jarana marana

jaramarana

so but when he talks about you know all

i teach are these two things which is

suffering and

the right uh the cessation of suffering

what he's really referring to is the

parent origination

so dependent origination when you see it

you see the four noble truths in every

link of dependent origination if you

read maj manikayan 9 that that will show

you how that clearly that that works out

but the understanding here is

yes he says i teach affordable truths

but just to encapsulate it he says i

show you how suffering arises through

this process of dependent origination

and such suffering can include pleasant

feelings or sorry pleasant feelings that

might change into unpleasant feelings or

unpleasant feelings it can change to

uh you know different kinds of dukkha

which is like the

which is the dukkha of the body the

suffering of the body suffering of the

mind which is anxiety and depression and

not writing what you want or not getting

what you want

getting what you don't want and all of

these things are divided into three

different categories of suffering

there's the dukkha

there's the vipari nama dhuka and

there's the sankhara dukkha

so the dukkha is really the physical

part of that

well the physical and mental the vipari

is the duke of change

the inherent stability instability of

life which is to say

you know suffering when you miss a

flight

suffering because uh you know your fight

got cancelled suffering because you were

in a hot shower and suddenly it became

cold

suffering because you were expecting it

to be a sunny day and suddenly it

started to rain

you know all of these are also suffering

and

what i'm explaining to you here in that

in those examples

can be extrapolated from

that uh understanding of suffering in

the mahaprabhu

that's uh 22 22.

nikaya 22. you're gonna 22. thank you

yes

thank you

awesome i'll go look at those thank you

so much really appreciate it

let's see i

delson i i really liked the suit a lot

did a really great job on it um

and also the um

the one thing i thought

it was cool about this suit i always

thought it was cool that

all of the different

examples the different um

similes

are mostly about follow the instructions

and everything works fine but if you

deviate from the instructions it doesn't

work right yeah

that's what i was teaching when i was

using this in a retreat about a month

ago and it and also

one of the things i stumbled on in this

that is kind of cool was nobody is stuck

nobody can say i got stuck

i got on this thing about me i had a

bunch of people who were saying i'm so

stuck i'm so stuck i said no nobody's

stuck

and then we talked about what i meant

you know nobody is stuck

only

you know what i mean

yes

yes you talk about that a little bit no

yeah i mean

yeah people you know when they go on the

path and they experience all of these

things in china's they might say oh you

know there was this

restlessness that arose and

and i'm stuck there because of the

restlessness but then as as monte will

say who is restless

you know or who is craving

uh you know or who wants it to be a

certain way and really what he's

pointing out is the impersonal nature of

this process

not only the impersonal nature of

suffering but even the impersonal nature

of the path leading to the cessation of

suffering and the cessation of suffering

itself

and ibana is impersonal so

you're not stuck you don't you're just

well there are there are impediments and

there are blockages and things like that

but it's not happening to anyone

it's just a process that's arising and

you take the tools to

apply whether it's forgiveness or any

other of the processes

like the six hours and so on

and you let go and that's it and in the

letting go you experience some kind of

relief

and by the way even that relief

is not yours

even that experience of nirvana is not

yours even the joy that experiences from

an attainment is not yours

that's cool

and um

the other thing was turning anitra

around

can you talk about anita because like

last year one of my students said

something and i didn't even think about

this before because anita is always

coming to us

as a nietzsche is this impermanence and

change and because we get annoyed with

that and human beings don't like it then

we suffer it and we see it always

presented like that

only she came to me and said she

discovered something and i said what she

said i think anita is my friend

and i said what do you mean

and and she had to tell me you know she

told me well the thing is

if something bad is going on if i just

remember anita it's like i want to put a

team flag on my wall because if i

remember and nietzsche is real in

everything everything is impermanent

then i'm not stuck

yes and that she was talking about not

stuck she wasn't using that term but she

was basically saying you know i'm not

stuck

yeah

did you experience this with this this

two-sided thing about anisha

oh definitely i mean in the beginning if

somebody takes something to be self and

they say oh what do you mean all things

are impermanent

uh then that leads to a lot of

discomfort with that idea because i want

this happy i want this happy feeling to

continue what do you mean that the

jhanas are impermanent i want to

continue feeling these chanas you know

what do you mean loving kindness is

impermanent well it is i mean all

conditioned things

are impermanent that is the

understanding

but i love that fact that she's able to

use impermanence as a friend because in

the realization of impermanence

you abandon any kind of taking of

anything as being personal

and that can lead to a deeper

understanding deeper insights

i know there's like seven different

types of perceptions or sometimes six

different types of perceptions that are

talked about which is they kind of lead

one to the other which is

uh and if i remember correctly it's like

the perception

of impermanence leads to the perception

of understanding dukkha the perception

of understanding dukkha leads to the

perception of understanding anatha and

personal impersonality

that leads to the understanding of

disenchantment and dispassion and

ultimately cessation and so on so

impermanence is really the key to to

start that whole process i've come

across a couple of sutas where the

buddha talks about seeing the

impermanence in this experience

lets you abandon the fetters lets you

abandon any of the attachments

but then seeing the impersonal nature of

things lets you uproot that

meaning so that they are not liable to

return

that they are not liable to emerge again

in terms of the feathers or any of the

attachments

yeah that's good that's cool

and i had a student just yesterday who

came to me

and said well i don't see why i have to

do this with the way you're explaining

it with the path and stuff because i

have i already have the second genre i

have it

and i

have you been have you been confronted

with the person who walks in and says

well i already have the fourth i have it

you know

[Music]

yeah that's the thing who's janna is it

i mean did you buy it at a store and now

you possess it or does it just come out

because of does it come about because of

causes and conditions that's

that's the way to really understand it

it's really terrific yeah thank you

thank you

hi delson um thank you for the talk um

the question for you on the uh the fear

of the cessation and you

pointed that

um could you elaborate more on that and

how to basically confront it and

i mean that that feeling

may come across few times

and

how to basically

embrace it or basically let that go

because

one of the fears could be uh

the fear of uh what happens if i don't

continue the status quo or

if the life gonna change significantly

what happened after that

basically

yeah could you elaborate more on that

how to basically let that go and

make make that passes smoother

yeah

so first of all when it comes to the

experience just before cessation

sometimes people kind of stubble stumble

into it

uh and then experience it and then

experience relief and joy and so on but

sometimes people have this

fear and that fear can be some kind of

blockage that they're not looking at

one of the tools you can use is your

intuition and ask

what is blocking this experience of

cessation to happen what is blocking uh

in the form of this fear

from going further

you ask the question one time

let it go and then like an insight it'll

arise and then it'll let you know what

it is that the mind is attached to that

is preventing

that experience of cessation to happen

and your six art and let it go

and that allows you to actually

experience

in the

in the meditation when that experience

happens

uh or the fear of that experience

happens rather you have the information

of why this is happening and you let it

go right there and then

now letting go doesn't mean you try to

let go letting go doesn't mean i am

letting go because

what is being abandoned is that

formation of i am

what is being abandoned is the sense of

self so how can the self let go of the

self that's that's what you have to

understand it's not that that's not

what's going on

what's actually going on is when there

is an abandoning it's just a letting go

in the form of let's say you're carrying

a heavy burden and you just let it go

that's it there's no there's no there's

nothing beyond just letting go there's

nothing beyond like i have to let go or

i have to do it in the very observation

of seeing that there is a hindrance in

the form of this tension or in the form

of this attachment to self

there is some relief there in seeing

that because it stops that flow and then

you

you relax and you

you you release and you relax and so on

and that lets it go and that that

replaces

that old model of thinking and

perceiving things with a new model it

replaces the unwholesome with the

wholesome so it even the six hours is an

impersonal process

if you see it with that understanding

and you use your intuition

that should help

johnson can we say that that's is that

the same thing as doubt right

that point would be doubt so if we went

to upeck kalasa and

it's one of the ones he said as soon as

you understand that doubt is an

imperfection we abandon it

yeah yes yes and that can happen with

any of the any of the upperculasis or

any of the hindrances in the in the

actual recognition of it it stops it

it stops the flow of any of that doubt

or restlessness or whatever and then the

rest of that process is just uh

doing the rest of the four right efforts

abandoning it by just releasing it

letting it go and relaxing it smiling

which is generating the wholesome and

then maintaining it by collectiveness by

coming back to your objective meditation

so the first right effort of uh

recognizing it or preventing it from

continuing on is happening through that

process of realization

right i guess

the other

side of the coin i guess is one side is

is that fear but the other side of the

coin because

i know there is a lot of talking about

that and you read a lot of that

is the excitement

saying that oh it's happening

and that prevents that as well

so how to i mean how to basically come

across that or how to put that behind

that's the longing that's the other part

of it and actually longing is one of the

classes that are mentioned in the lupica

sutras and uh in the uber killer isuta

and that longing is happening because

you have an intention or an expectation

of how this meditation is going to

happen

or if you don't have an expectation of

how this meditation is going to happen

and you start off with saying let's just

see what happens that's the attitude

that everybody should have like

i don't know what's going to happen with

this meditation let's just see what

happens

if you start continue with that attitude

even when you're in the quiet mind then

there won't be any longing but in the

recognition and that's why i say

arguably that it's uh

it's easy to get into cessation for

stream entry but after stream entry to

get into cessation again is more

difficult because you know the path you

know the signposts you know the things

that are going to lead to that

experience and as soon as you grasp onto

those signposts

there's no cessation so

when you find the mind starting to

recognize and trying to grasp onto these

things

see that as a hindrance and let it go

and just say okay i don't care about

that so that's where the disenchantment

comes in i've seen this before i know

what's going to happen

i don't care i really don't care and

it's not just saying it it's really it's

really just experiencing it it's really

just saying let's just see what happens

and so that's really again redeveloping

if you will the beginner's mind the mind

that says

you know i don't know what to expect

i'm just going to continue on

uh and let's see how the mind unravels

and

that's it

right okay

what was the um the sutra number that

you mentioned is it in uh majimanikai or

is about um

continuation or basically

the the

basically what continued after death i

guess we talked about you on

could you talk a little bit about that

process about

how caramel craving

gonna continue on i guess and

going to manifest so in terms of the

form

is it karma from one person

going to

i don't know keep the whole uh

they uh keep keep it the whole way and

then uh or that from one person gonna

basically uh dismantle multiple car mods

or how how does it work basically

okay i'm trying to understand your

question are you saying um

like how does rebirth work on them on

from one lifetime to the next

[Music]

yes or what do you what do you um okay

so what you should understand uh first

and foremost is um

the last thing that the buddha said and

this is how i understand it to be

very last words of the buddha were that

all conditioned things are impermanent

be mindful and strive for your awakening

i'm paraphrasing here but there's a very

specific thing he says

all unc all condition things are

impermanent and when you read the pali

it the the word of condition comes from

the word sankara

so he was very very uh

very much

wanting people to understand this part

otherwise he would not have said this as

his last words is because fine you can

come to the understanding

that consciousness is impermanent you

see it arising and passing away

but then

okay now you understand that formations

activate the consciousness in the

process of dependent origination

and formations can then give rise to a

new consciousness that takes rebirth

into new mentality materiality but then

that can that can

be misconstrued as saying then that

means formations themselves are also

permanent they're arising and they're

going from one lifetime to the next but

that's wrong

because formations

are dependent upon previous choices and

intentions

formations arise because there is some

kind of contact with the outside world

with the sixth sense spaces

and they will give rise to for example

mental formations

that gives rise to feeling and

perception or verbal formations which

gives rise to verbal speech or bodily

formations which gives rise to breathing

so when the formations arise

they then give rise to consciousness but

that doesn't mean the formation

continues on it just continues so long

as there is some kind of karma to be

played out

so formations are always changing just

like consciousness is always changing

always arising and passing away

when you understand this as well then

you see that it's not that formations

continue on from one lifetime to another

what they do is they activate a certain

type of consciousness that's why it's

understood that your last intention in a

previous life gave rise the the strength

of the craving the strength of the

clinging to that last thought that by

the way arose because of certain

formations

will then be an indicator of your next

life if you cling to it if you cling on

to it what that means is if a person has

been unwholesome all their life

then the formations that arise because

of the continual

making of the choices rooted in the

unwholesome

will give rise to unwholesome thoughts

will give rise to some kind of

unwholesome image

in the form of regret and and that can

give rise to some kind of regret or

remorse or fear or anger or any other

unwholesome

mental actions or thoughts

when that happens there's craving in

there because of that fuel of craving

that cut that formations that that

created that image

uh activates a certain kind of

consciousness that then is established

in a new namarupa which then fades away

and there is a continual arising and

passing away of consciousnesses in that

new being in that new life

now if a person has been wholesome

throughout their life then the choices

because of their choices being wholesome

there will be further wholesome thoughts

there will be formations rooted in the

wholesome which will give rise to

wholesome thoughts which can give rise

to love and kindness which can give rise

to an experience of

joy which can give an experience of

gratitude or

start seeing visions of devas or other

things like that and that's brooded in

the formations so the formations i see

them as carriers of karma but they're

not

they're impersonal and they are not

permanent they do their job in the form

of activating a consciousness which then

cognizes and experience but they fade

away after that so there is a momentum

that is felt by the process of this

experience of formations but that too

fades away and they keep changing so the

more wholesome you are the more you make

choices in the wholesome the more they

tend towards the wholesome the next

arising of formations

can become wholesome

so this whole process of the six hours

is about

purifying let's say the next arising of

formations so formations are always

arising in every given moment arising

and passing away just like consciousness

but the next formation that arises is

dependent on a previous choice you've

made

so if your choice has been wholesome it

will be more often than not a wholesome

formation which will give rise to your

mind

basically automatically inclining to the

wholesome

so what we're talking about here is

really

reconditioning the mind using the tools

of the six r's which is really the noble

eightfold path

recondition the mind from going from

taking things personal and causing

itself suffering the mind that sees

things as being impermanent impersonal

and understanding and leading to the way

of cessation of suffering

when the formations do activate a kind

of consciousness they will activate

because there is some some kind of

personalizing going on even in the

wholesome formations that arise which

can give rise to an experience of a

vapor realm which can give rise to joy

or loving kindness in that moment

because of the taking of it personal

that is liable to create a consciousness

which then becomes established in a new

nama rupa in the new life

that's why there's a story or there's a

suta in which

uh there's a there's an arahant who

passes away and

the buddha points out and says you see

all that black smoke that's around that

that monk

and that is basically

that's basically mara who's looking for

the consciousness of the arahat but

because that arahant has no more

clinging no more craving no more being

there's not going to be any feathered

formations to cling to and because of

that there won't be any new

consciousness that arises and because of

that there won't be a new rebirth

right no that's a really great

explanation and one question on that so

in terms of the right view

one aspect of that

is that uh as buddha mentioned we are

our own house builders

and the previous karma of course built

this house and if you're building

karma we're gonna continue this cycle of

samsara

but then the question is that

this

karma i guess the ownership of the karma

the karma is

mine or we can we can actually

own this karma but there is a way to

escape

building the house again

and

that that's by releasing the karma

basically or just letting it go i don't

know how that past karma are going to

shed

in this life

basically so that's one aspect of and

the other thing is that if karma goes on

in the next life i

can it cause multiple formations or can

it cause multiple

repairs rather than one reverse because

if it is gonna cause one reverse then

it's gonna be similar to okay one soul

goes to the next soul that's all exist

but does it have

any basically different

causing different formations

if my karma or this this karma goes to

the next life

okay

the first you have to understand one

thing right now are you experiencing

karma

well i guess the reason i'm

the karma i don't know no no i mean is

there are you experiencing

uh my voice right now are you

experiencing the sound of my voice

are you experiencing the sight of the

computer screen or maybe the mobile

screen that you're watching the zoom uh

through

yes

yeah that's karma

karma is activity karma is painful

pleasant neutral feeling

that is the

fruit of previous choices

you had an intention to come and join on

this zoom call that's karma as well

so there's a distinction between all

karma and karma

in terms of intention

is karma

vipaka which is a technical term for the

fruition of karma is the fruit or the

effect of your choices

but if you made a choice now

and then that created an experience

later

there's a direct connection between

cause and effect cause being the

intention the karma that you add in the

form of a decision a choice

and karma as vipaka the fruition as an

effect of that choice

but nowhere in between those nowhere in

the process of intention

and nowhere in the process of the effect

was it a personal process in the form of

a self experiencing it

and the reason i say that

is because

can you control right now

what you're going to be hearing can you

control that what volume i'm going to be

speaking can you control

uh the colors that are going to be

appearing on the screen in the way that

your eye sees it

no i cannot yeah

well i mean technically you can by

reducing the volume and things like that

but aside from all of that other stuff

and what i'm what i'm getting at is

anything that you're experiencing right

now in contact feeling and perception

you can't control that so there's no

controller there it's an impersonal

process

so the effects of those choices are

impersonal that's one way of

understanding but how then are the

intentions

impersonal as well because your

intentions are conditioned by

previous effects

so right now if somebody chooses

uh well in the sense that somebody

decides

to shut off the internet

uh or let's say you forget to pay the

the bill for the internet you're no

longer going to be able to see this zoom

you made a choice not to pay and the

effect of that is because of

not not not paying the bill

but in nowhere is there any personal

self in that process of choice every

choice that you take

there is an automation process in the

sense that

it's not that the choice is just

happening on its own the choice happened

because of a series of causes and

conditions that led to that choice

and the series of processes and

conditions causes and conditions that

led to that process of choice

is karma

and so that karma came about because of

a previous choice and that karma came

about because of a previous choice and

so on and so forth but in nowhere was

there an underlying permanent self

experiencing that

because you might have made a choice

i mean just a very general general idea

you might have made a choice to to save

up for college let's say when you were

younger

or your parents made the choice they

opened up a bank account you made up a

choice to save up for college

that was one sense of self that you had

but the one who experienced

the fruits of that is that another sense

of self or is that the same sense of

self

that's what i'm trying to get at here

it's all impersonal it's just a series

of choices causes and conditions that

lead to the next series of causes

choices and conditions

now when the buddha says you are the

inheritor of your karma what he's trying

to say is

the choices that you made previously led

you to this karma

so anything that happens in the context

of dependent origination from formations

up until feeling

are the effects of previous choices that

you had how you choose to see it will

determine new choices if you choose to

have craving if you choose to have

clinging if you choose to have habitual

tendencies

that will create birth of new karma and

spurt of new action

and so you are creating karma in this

way

now

the

negantas or the jains had this idea that

i am going to purify my karma through

self-mortification

and other things

like that so the buddha said

how do you know like is there a bank

balance of what karma is remaining and

when karma has been purified how do you

know that

and they said we don't know it so how do

you know that in every moment karma is

being

experienced then karma is being

let go of

this is the way to understand it now in

the context of seeing that you have

formations all the way from formations

up to contact feeling and perception as

being old karma

then you are experiencing the karma of

previous choices

how you choose to take this moment will

lead you to either acting upon

that feeling in a way that creates

craving and identification

thus perpetuating that karma over and

over and over every time you do that or

purifying the mind through taking the

precepts through sila

cultivating the mind through

through bhavana or samadhi through the

jhana practice

through

collectedness

and purifying your view

through insight that arising of

understanding the wisdom that arises

because of seeing the penetration nation

and the four noble truths

when that happens then the mind becomes

so pure and so mindful that it no longer

takes any feeling

the end point of any old karma as being

personal it sees it all as being

impersonal and therefore doesn't react

to it doesn't have any underlying

tendencies that underlie the feeling

that allowable to create further craving

and clinging so karma is something that

is to be felt and experienced that is

the old karma any new karma that arises

is because you chose or somebody chose

to take it personally somebody chose to

identify with it somebody chose to have

craving or clinging to it or aversion

and

ill will towards it when you see in that

mindfulness that that feeling was

impersonal

then you're not going to react in a way

that is outside the scope of the

eightfold path but if you react that is

some if you react in a way or respond

through within the scope within the

bounds of the eightfold path and that is

the cessation of karma

buddha says that the way leading to the

cessation of karma is the eightfold path

why because

not only do you have right view you have

right intention which is an intention

rooted in letting go and abandoning

rooted and ill

rooted in non-ill will or loving

kindness rooted in non-cruelty or

compassion that gives rise to right

speech you speak when it is timely you

speak true words you speak in a kind

manner that is not liable to cause

further karma you act in a way that

doesn't cause pain and suffering for

yourself or to others you have a

livelihood that doesn't cause pain and

suffering to yourself or to others

you use the six hours which is right

effort and therefore you're mindful in

every moment which allows you to see the

experience as being what it really is

and therefore not adding any more

reactions that are liable to create new

karma

thank you that was a long winded answer

but hopefully

there was some clarity that's great

really appreciated

dustin can i ask you one question in

that

there's a choice in there what about

volition and who chooses

yeah so how would you actually the way i

see

yeah the way i see volition which is

chetna is intention so what i i say or

how i understand it to be is

that every choice is conditioned by

previous choices and so that those

choices are conditioned by contact with

the outside world

so when you have

intention comes first but you have

intention the chaitanya then the comma

the action that we package the ripening

and the kamapala as the fruition but

after the intention there's a volitional

choice to go through with this or not so

volition is separate from caitanya so

who who chooses

yeah there is there's no one who chooses

there is a there's almost an automated

process the way i see it and what i mean

by that is

that volition as you're saying i mean

you're getting really deep into

the the point between the intention and

the action itself because in that moment

of choice

there can be either a choice to act in

the unwholesome or the choice to say

wait the mind is tending to the

unwholesome

and

letting go

and experiencing

so would you say would you say that i'm

trusting my brain or would you say that

i'm trusting my brain that it has

been tr you know in the in the six hours

you the first two

first part of it is purification the

second part of it is retraining the

brain would you say that i tr the brain

is trained enough

because of the repetition of the six r's

that it leans and you're and you're just

wanting to lean

not really choose to to act or not would

you say it that way exactly

yes because

yeah because before you do the eightfold

path before you do the six r's

even those choices are seemingly

automatic

i mean when when somebody chooses to be

unwholesome when someone reacts

in a way that causes anger or creates

anger and suffering

that choice itself tends towards the

unwholesome but the moment you start to

six r the repetition as you say of the

continual six hour process the

repetition of the eightfold path has the

choice inclining towards the wholesome

has a choice inclining towards

the eightfold path

yeah

yeah the six hours is actually

retraining the neural pathways in your

brain to let go of your old habits and

structurally build new neural pathways

in your brain to have a new habit

of the wholesome direct instead of the

unknowns of direction

so if you get if you that's why

practicing this whole practice outside

of just in in the retreater when we're

training people convincing them that

when they say to me you know i didn't

have enough time to sit to practice they

they're thinking i didn't have enough

time to sit at home in the morning sit

at home at night

i'm talking about doing this stuff all

day long

inside and out you see that's what i'm

asking you to do when you leave the

retreat

and then when i i'm checking up on these

women that came through a few a couple

weeks back

a 10-day retreat i'm calling them on a

follow-up on a 30-day checkup i want to

know what these people have been doing

outside of sitting after they moved into

another module for training and what

they're doing it's going to be fun

yes and

and and the way i would look at it is

you have to do the six hours anytime you

recognize the craving anytime you

recognize the aversion anytime you

recognize any of the hindrances arising

what you are doing is

you're training your mind

to see that hindrance as just being

impersonal so any time it starts to

arise you let it go and you replace it

with the wholesome the more you do that

the weaker the hindrance will be the

hindrance the hindrance itself

is old karma

but how you choose to react to that

hindrance will be new karma or the

cessation of that karma that's why every

time you six are the hindrance and it

might come up again it's weaker in the

next cycle of the arising of that

immigrants okay

completely fades away question for you

about what you're saying

and that is are you finding your

vipassana students that are coming from

straight papasana who are trained on the

sensations in the body sensing the

sensations are they going through the

program faster than the people who have

not learned to sense these sensations

because that's what's happening in our

wreck in my records in india

it's finally the place where we get to

a place of agreement that they've had a

set of training and now if they go into

this they're moving much faster

you see because they can sense this the

sensation arising that's the that's the

symptom of the craving and if they let

go they start to let go sooner than the

other students is that happening with

you there in the states

well what i'm seeing or what the way i

explain it is vipassana or straight

vipassana is really just

it's just the first r

meaning they they have a good way of

noting when there's an arising of

sensations they have a good way of

noting when perceptions are arising and

things like that or craving is arising

so it really strengthens the first hour

of recognize or realizing but

what i also tell them after that is once

you recognize it's not just like

okay you're noting it you're actually

doing something with it if it's craving

if you notice there's tightness you're

actually doing something with it by

releasing and relaxing you're actually

doing something with it when you're

re-smiling and

collecting your mind or returning back

to the object of meditation

thanks that's good yeah

okay

any last questions i'll take one more

question nelson um i have a question

about forgiveness meditation

um yes

so it's about

the determination to

stay so that stays shallow enough that i

can still vocalize the forgiveness

and um

sometimes the determination works for me

sometimes it doesn't more recently not

working so much

i think maybe if i understood like how

the determination works like

what makes the determination work it

might be easier to really figure this

out and

stay in a level where i can vocalize and

do the forgiveness

well i would say with forgiveness you

should always be verbalizing and that

will help you to stay in the first jhana

meaning

when you walk you say i forgive you you

forgive me with every step right you say

i forgive you you forgive me

that is verbalizing when you are sitting

down and you you say i forgive myself

for not understanding then you start to

experience

you wait and you see what's happening

and you start to situations might come

people might come up memories might come

up then you say the same thing you

forgive it you relax it i forgive myself

for not understanding somebody else

comes up and you say i forgive you

enough for not understanding so every so

often you say that as a way of letting

the mind stay in that first jhana but

you're always saying it when somebody

comes up i forgive you for not

understanding in doing so you're

experiencing

acceptance of that and letting you go

and move on to the next person and the

next person so

you have to make a determination not in

that sense that you if you just say i

look i forgive myself for not

understanding and then just let go

you have to stay with it and see what's

happening in the way of

a memory or situation or something that

you did or whatever it might have been

and then say it again i forgive you for

not i forgive myself for not

understanding and feel the experience

of you know having let go of that

there's a there's a release that is

experienced

that happens when you say i forgive

myself for not understanding that should

help you stay with that with that

verbalization process

yeah um sometimes this happens like

there's like this tension like i

i don't just feels like the mind is like

getting stiller and so i'm still

verbalized and then it's it's like

there's this tension between the mind

stilling down the verbalization

and then if i

if i keep meditating through that i tend

to get like headaches and feel often

feel off when i quit meditating

so you're saying if you feel the

stillness

and there's a tension arising because

you want to let go of that stillness and

stay with the verbalizing

yeah it's like um there's like the mind

is settling down and at the same time

i'm like still verbalizing and there's

like this tension between the two

i would say that and don't don't take

this out of the wrong context i'm saying

the mind should not be settling down to

that level it should just be verbalizing

i forgive you

not understanding and just

it's it's less of a feeling meditation

at least this is what i'm saying based

on my discussions with david and bonte

it's less of a feeling meditation and

more of a verbalizing meditation because

the experience of the relief that you

feel happens after the meditation then

you feel lighter because you're

forgiving it's just like when i say i

forgive you

i forgive you that's it you know if

somebody says

somebody tells me they forgive me they

just forgive me that's it so the feeling

comes up afterwards the recognition the

recognition or the understanding that

you are forgiven gives the rise to an

experience of release gives rise to an

experience of abandoning

any kind of ill will that might be there

any kind of blockages

due to that experience that might be

there

but every so often just keep saying the

uh say the words

continue with that verbalizing

there's nothing you feel here you feel

after having done the forgiveness

meditation you feel that relief you feel

that release

[Music]

in the instructions for the forgiveness

did you find that where i found the most

recent one he put together was

the instructions for the forgiveness he

basically is um

is saying to you that when you say your

phrase okay

you have to pause and let it sink in

and just watch inside and watch your

mind

for something to happen okay

you have to take your time with this

it's not i say the phrase that somebody

comes up

i i described this when i was trying to

do a full retreat on their forgiveness

which i don't want to do anymore right

now because i use it as a stop for

breaking up blockage more more that way

but

when when we were doing that i would

describe it to them as you have a bunch

of horses in your head and there's a

corral like this it's locked and the

gate the hook is on the gate

okay and what you're doing is convincing

your mind it's okay for you to forgive

and by saying the phrase over and over

again then your mind begins to believe

you

nelson do you feel like this whole thing

this whole practice and teaching people

either

the six hours or the forgiveness is

teaching people a communication system

with their mind

it's a new way to communicate with your

mind and get it to cooperate with you

but it has to trust it when you are

doing these things in the training that

it's okay for you the mind has to

believe that because it's part of your

protection system in the human body

yeah yeah the way i see this whole

process i mean the forgiveness i haven't

actually taught anyone forgiveness so

anything i say to you um jared just take

it with a grain of salt i'm just telling

you what i have learned from bante or

had discussions from with bhante and and

david

but as far as i understand

whether it's the six hours or whether

it's forgiveness

it is a process of

re-reconditioning

because even the eightfold path is

conditioned it's a process of

reconditioning so that you continue to

let go it's a process of changing the

way your mind sees reality

and ultimately coming to a point where

you see things as they really are

when we say you know things as they

really are it means that there's no

projection of self there's no projection

of craving there's no projection of

expectations there's no prejudgment

going on nothing like that and so the

forgiveness tool

is a way to lighten the mind is a way to

let go of certain blockages and it's

only temporary it's only for a short

period of time

where then the mind intuits that okay

now it's time to go back to

the practice of radiating loving

kindness or radiating compassion or

whatever it might be and you'll know it

because you'll feel it um and and to

sister kama's point which is

you stay say the phrase

and you wait and see what comes up and

then

say it again by letting it go when you

say it again to them you let it go so

it's a process of just saying it and

then waiting

and then forgiving them

forgiving any distractions and relaxing

so bonte has said forgive and relax

those are really the two things that

he's doing here

but that is that should only be seen as

a way to come back to loving kindness or

compassion or your your formal

meditation and then from there the

process of the six hours is all about

reconditioning uh the mind so that it

suffers less and ultimately

doesn't suffer anymore at all

okay so i've been talking for a long

time let's uh

share some merit my voice is starting to

get a little dry so

may suffering ones be suffering free and

the fear struck fearlessly may the

grieving shed all grief and may all

beings find relief

may all beings share this merit that we

have thus acquired for the acquisition

of all kinds of happiness

may beings inhabiting space and earth

devas and nagas of mighty power share

this merit of ours

may they long protect the buddha's

dispensation

sadhu saudi

[Applause]

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

right so this is majaminikaya 22

it's the

allah

a simile of the snake

that's have i heard on one occasion the

blessed one was living at salvati

in jethro's grove another pindicus park

now on that occasion a pernicious view

had arisen in a bike named arvita

formerly of the vulture killers thus

oh he had this view thus

as i understand the dhamma taught by the

blessed one

those things called obstructions by the

blessed one are not able to obstruct one

who engages in them

that's a pretty bad view because what

he's saying is when he talks about

obstructions he's talking about sensual

pleasures

and what he's saying is

those sensual pleasures

won't obstruct somebody who engages

in them

with the intention or his intention is

that

i can go ahead and indulge in sensual

pleasures and it's not going to affect

me i'm not going to be affected by them

and

i'm not going to attach to them or i'm

not going to have aversion to them

but having that kind of a view

as we'll see is a pernicious view

because

it can cause a person to act on their

underlying tendencies

and therefore cause the arising of

craving clinging being and so on

because what we have to understand is

that the feeling whether it's painful

pleasant or neutral

is just a feeling it's how you react to

the feeling which will convey whether

there will be

uh any kind of craving or clinging

but here this person arita is under the

idea or under the impression that if he

engages with them

makes it

makes it something more than their they

are which is just an impersonal feeling

and engages with them by taking them

personally it's not going to affect him

but we'll see what goes on

several bikus having heard about this

went to the biku arita and asked him

friend arita is it true that such a

pernicious view has arisen in you

[Music]

exactly so friends as i understand the

dhamma taught by the blessed one

those things called obstructions by the

blessed one are not able to obstruct one

who engages in them

then these beakers desiring to detach

him from that pernicious view pressed

and questioned and cross questioned him

thus

friend aretha do not say so do not

misrepresent the blessed one

it is not good to misrepresent the

blessed one the blessed one would not

speak thus or in many ways the blessed

one has stated how obstructive things

are obstructions

and how they are able to obstruct one

who engages in them

the blessed one has stated that sensual

pro sensual pleasures provide little

gratification

much suffering and despair

and that the danger in them is still

with the simile of the snake with the

simile of the piece of meat with the

simile of the grass torch

with the simile of the pit of coals

with the simile of the dream

with the simile of the borrowed goods

with the simile of the fruits on a tree

with the simile of the butcher's knife

and block with the simile of the sword

stake

and

with the simile of the snake's head the

blessed one has stated that sensual

pleasures provide little gratification

much suffering and despair

and that the danger in them is still

so i was just going through these

similes and the first seven similes with

the simile of the skeleton with the

simile of the piece of meat

the simile of the grass torch the pit of

coals of the dream

of borrowed goods and the fruits on a

tree

these can be found in majminikaya 54

and the buddha goes through each of them

to explain

how they are in relation to sensual

pleasures

now if i remember correctly the

butcher's uh knife and block and the one

with the sword stake in the snake's head

is probably in the

the suit that right after this which is

the ant hill suit though but we'll go

through it a little by little

yet although pressed and questioned and

crossed questioned by those beakers in

this weighing beku arita formerly of the

vulture killers

still obstinately adhere to that

pernicious view and continue to insist

upon it

since the bikus were unable to detach

him from that pernicious view they went

to the blessed one and after paying

homage to him they sat down at one side

and told him all that had occurred

adding

venerable sir since we could not detach

the biku arita formerly of the vulture

killers from this pernicious view

we have reported this matter to the

blessed one

then the blessed one addressed a certain

bee kudus kambiku tell the biku aretha

formerly of the vulture killers in my

name

that the teacher calls him

yes venerable sir he replied

and he went to the beaker arita and told

him

the teacher calls you friend arita

yes friend he replied and he went to the

blessed one and after paying homage to

him sat down at one side

the blessed one then asked him arita

is it true that the pernicious following

pernicious view has arisen in you

as i understand the dhamma taught by the

blessed one those things called

obstructions by the blessed one

are not able to obstruct one who engages

in them

exactly so venerable sir as i understand

the dharma taught by the blessed one

those things called obstructions by the

blessed one are not able to obstruct one

who engages them

misguided men to whom have you ever

known me to teach the dharma in that way

misguided man have i not stated in many

ways how obstructive things are

obstructions and how they are able to

obstruct one who engages in them

i have stated that

sensual pleasures provide little

gratification

much suffering and despair

and that the danger in them is still

with the simile of the skeleton with the

simile of the piece of meat with the

simile of the grass torch with the

simile of the pit of coals with the

simile of the dream

with the simile of the borrowed goods

with the simile of fruits on a tree with

the simile of the butcher's knife and

block and with the simile of the sword

stake and the simile of the snake's head

i have stated that sensual pleasures

provide little gratification

much suffering and despair and that the

danger in them is still more

but you misguided man by your own grasp

have misrepresented us

injured yourself and stored up much

demerit

for this will lead to your harm and

suffering for a long time

so this whole process of dressing down

narita in this way is very similar to

majuminikaya 38 where sati son of a

fisherman has that view that

consciousness is

unified and one consciousness that

transmigrates from one

one lifetime to the next uh so this is

very similar in in terms of the way it's

structured but here we are talking about

aretha formerly of the vulture killers

as he's known

then the blessed one addressed the bikus

das bikus what do you think

has this biku arita formerly of the

vulture killers kindle even a spark of

wisdom

in this dhamma and discipline

how could he venerable sir no venerable

sir when this was said the biku aretha

formerly of the vulture killers

sat silent dismayed with shoulders

drooping and head down

glum and without response

then knowing this the blessed one told

him misguided man you will be recognized

by your own pernicious view i shall

question the beakers on this matter

then the blessed one addressed the

because thus

because do you understand the dhamma

taught by me

as this bhikkhu or aretha formerly of

the vulture killers does when by his

wrong grasp he misrepresents us injures

himself and stores up much to merit

no venerable sir

or in many ways the blessed one has

stated how obstructive things are

obstructions and how they are able to

obstruct one who engages in them

the blessed one has stated that sensual

pleasures provide little gratification

much suffering and despair and that the

danger in them is still more

with the simile of the skeleton with the

simile of the snake's head and so on

the blessed one has stated

that the danger in them is still more

good because

it is good that you understand the

dhamma taught by me thus

or in many ways i have stated how

obstructive things are obstructions and

how they are able to obstruct one who

engages in them

i have stated that sensual pleasures

provide little gratification

much suffering and despair and that the

danger in them is still more

with the simile of the skeleton and so

on i have stated that the danger in them

is still more

but this biku aretha formerly of the

vulture killers

by his wrong grasp misrepresents us

injures himself and stores up much

demerit

or this will lead to this misguided

man's harm and suffering for a long time

because that one who that one can engage

in sensual pleasures without sensual

desires

without perceptions of sensual desires

without thoughts of sensual desire

that is impossible

so let's break that down he says that

one can engage in sensual pleasures

without sensual desires

without perception of sensual desire

without thoughts

of sensual desire that is impossible

so we understand from the scope of

dependent origination that feeling

whether it's painful pleasant or neutral

can give rise to craving

but that is only if you engage in those

experiences and when we say engage we're

being very specific here what we're

saying is

taking that feeling that sensual

experience as being personal

once you start taking it personal

there is craving liable to arise

there is a version liable to arise there

is further identification with that

experience

and that brings about the perceptions

of that craving aversion

or identification

and so

there will be thoughts of that sensual

desire in the form of clinging this is

really what the buddha is talking about

when you take a feeling to be personal

whatever feeling it might be

if you take it to be personal then you

are no longer having mindfulness of it

you're taking it personal you're taking

it as me mine or myself

and in doing so

you bring up conceit you bring up

ignorance you bring up craving and

therefore there is the thoughts

and when you talk about thoughts or

thinking

that process of thinking happens in the

link of clinging

which starts the ideation and

conceptualization process of why it is

that you like what you like or why it is

what you don't like is what you don't

like and so on and so forth

now we're going to get into the simile

of the snake

before we do what's also important to

understand is sensual desire or sensual

central pleasures as we are

we're reading about

this is really in regards to

the five physical senses but that calls

the five physical senses the

the chords of sensual pleasures

but it's through the mind through the

mental realm that you experience higher

pleasures higher mental good feelings

which come in the form of love and

kindness for example or compassion or

joy or equanimity and ultimately give

you the experience of the factors of the

jhanas the more somebody is able to do

this the more somebody actually really

is able to master the janas

and experience the jhanas in such a way

that they will

see central pleasures

the less uh

they'll see central pleasures in a way

that is

less interesting

the more they're in ghana the less the

central pleasures become interesting and

eventually

you know there's a level of

disenchantment with sensual experiences

that

they no longer are engaged with as me

mine or myself so that means the

collectedness has given rise

to an experience of disenchantment and

that this enchantment continues to

inform the mindfulness in every moment

when there is an experience so that

somebody is aware of the three

characteristics of existence of that

experience

meaning that experience is impermanent

and not worth holding on to and

therefore not me mine or myself when

that happens

a person does not react

towards the underlying tendency towards

aversion or craving or ignorance or any

of the other

seven underlying

tendencies

when that happens they won't have

craving and therefore they won't have

clinging being and the rest of suffering

the birth of action and suffering and so

dear because some misguided men learned

the dharma discourses stanzas exposition

versus exclamations sayings birth

stories marvels and answers to questions

but having learned the dharma they do

not examine the meaning of those

teachings

with wisdom

not examining the meaning of those

teachings with wisdom they do not gain a

reflective acceptance of them instead

they learn the dhamma only for the sake

of criticizing others and for winning in

debates and they do not experience the

good for the sake of which they learn

the dhamma

those teachings being wrongly grasped by

them

and used to their harm and suffering for

a long time why is that

because of the wrong grasp of those

teachings

suppose a man needing a snake seeking

the snake wandering in search of a snake

the eyelash name and breast oil

oils or its tail

it would turn back on him and bite his

hand or his arm or because one of his

limbs

and because of that he would come to

death or deadly surf suffering

why is that because of this wrong grasp

of the snake

so to hear some misguided men learn the

dharma and so on

because of

and they're not able to grasp it because

of the wrong grasp of those teachings

so really what this is pointing out to

is the fact that you might go to the

suda's you might go to the jataka tales

you might go to the commentaries and

other places

and read

and then that's really just intellectual

knowledge that's really just book

learning

and that can give rise to clinging to

views as well and we're not

is to

having seen

the dhamma experience the dhamma and

still having some

amount of clinging to the dharma in the

form of the

in the form of seeing the dhamma as

being me mine or myself this is what

happens with the anagami

they take the dhamma and they make it

something more

than just

just an experience to be able to let go

of suffering and so there's reverence

for the dharma and so on you look at in

the pure abodes all of the anagamis are

the pure boats they have wonderful

reverence for the wonderful reverence

for the dhamma wonderful reverence for

the sangha but they're still attached to

the dharma as a thing as a thing to be

attached to so that's one level of

misunderstanding and wrong level of

grasping to to the teachings

but ultimately you go from wrong view to

right view to clinging to no views

in other words you're no longer even

identified with the understanding of

dependent origination or the experience

of the dhamma

but here what the buddha is specifically

talking about is people who read the

suttas without any kind of

experience as such in other words they

will read the sutas and interpret it in

a certain way for the sake of having

critical thinking and debates and things

like that this happened a lot in ancient

india where people would go through the

different vedas and different upanishads

and they would actually have debates and

they thought it was for the welfare for

the welfare of the people because people

would learn from those debates

but some of those debates became um

basically grounds for clinging to

certain views there was even a story of

how there was a debate that went on

where if somebody lost that debate they

would have to then toss themselves into

the river and so

all of these things for the sake of just

trying to prove i'm right and you're

wrong and all of these things they

continue to strengthen the clinging of

wrong to to the right view they continue

this

[Music]

you're taking the dhamma as something

you have to be proven you're taking the

dharma as something that needs to be

debated about rather than experienced

and as a tool to let go of suffering and

see suffering altogether

so then the buddha says here because

some clansmen learn the dharma and

discourse

[Music]

examine the meaning of those teachings

with wisdom

examining the meaning of those teachings

with wisdom they gain a reflective

acceptance of them they do not learn the

dhamma for the sake of criticizing

others and for winning in debates and

they experience the good for the sake of

which they learned the dhamma

those teachings being rightly grasped by

them conduce to their welfare and

happiness for a long time

why is that because of the right grasp

of those teachings

suppose a man eating a snake seeking a

snake

wandering in search of a snake saw a

large snake and caught it swiftly with a

cleft stick

and having done so grasped it rightly by

the neck

then although the snake might wrap its

coils around it his hand or his arms or

his limbs

still he would not come to death or

deadly suffering because of that why is

that

because of his right grasp of the snake

so to hear some klansmen learn of the

dharma and so on

but they grasp brightly because of the

right grasp of the teachings

therefore because when you understand

the meaning of my statements remember it

accordingly and when you do not

understand the meaning of my statements

then ask either me about it or those

because who are wise

now this is very important to understand

what what they're saying what he's

saying is

they examine those teachings or the

meaning of those teachings with wisdom

and gain a reflective acceptance of them

and whenever we have the word wise or

wisdom what we are talking about is the

experience of the four noble truths and

the experience of

dependent origination

your experience will inform you how to

how to interpret let's say the sutas and

what i mean by that is sometimes you'll

go to a certain suta

and you'll read it and you have no idea

what is being talked about or you have

very little understanding of what's

going on whatever it is that they're

talking about

but the more you are able to

meditate and go into jhana and

experience these things for yourself

you're seeing them for yourself how this

process arises how you let go of the

hindrances with the six hours how the

smiling strengthens the mindfulness and

then ultimately seeing how the links

independent origination arise

seeing the tiny formations seeing the

tiny consciousnesses arise and pass away

and so on all of this is from direct

experience and that direct experience

equals wisdom and so when you go back to

the teachings when you go back to the

reading of the sutras

you go back with a different

understanding it's like the experience

has unlocked a kind of code which helps

you decipher the meaning of the suttas

and because of that as the buddha says

they gain a reflective acceptance of

them so when you read the sutas just

take them for what they are but you

don't have to accept them just do it

yourself

see for yourself how this process works

and then by that your experience will

help you to confirm

what is being taught or talked about in

the suttas

so don't read the suttas because you

want to be book smart

be street smart through the experience

of meditation and then you'll be wise

and be able to then reflect correctly

and grasp correctly the teachings

because i shall show you how the dhamma

is similar to a raft being for the

purpose of crossing over not for the

purpose of grasping listen it and attend

closely to what i shall say

yes venerable sir the because replied

the blessed one said this

because suppose a man in the course of a

journey saw a great expanse of water

whose near shore was dangerous and

fearful and whose further

was safe and free from fear but there

was no no ferry boat or bridge for going

to the far shore

then he thought there is this great

expanse of water

who's near shore is dangerous and

fearful and is further sure is

safe and free from fear

but there is no ferry boat or bridge for

going to the far shore

suppose i collect grass

twigs branches and leaves and bind them

together into a raft and supported by

the raft and making an effort with my

hands and feet i got safely across to

the far shore and then the man collected

grass twigs branches and leaves and

bound them together into a raft

and supported by the raft and making an

effort with his hands and feet he got

safely across to the far shore then when

he had got across and had arrived at the

far shore he might think thus

this raft has been very helpful to me

since supported by it and making an

effort with my hands and feet i got

safely across to the far shore suppose i

were to hoist it on my head or load it

on my shoulder

and then go wherever i want now because

what do you think by doing so would that

man be doing what should be done with

that raft no venerable sir

by doing what would

by doing what would that man be doing

what

should be done with that raft

sorry by doing what would that man be

doing

what should be done with that raft

here because when the ma when that man

got across and arrived at the far shore

he might think thus

this raft has been very helpful to me

since supported by it and making an

effort with my hands and feet i got

safely across to the far shore

suppose i were to

haul it onto the dry land

and set it adrift in the water

and then go wherever i want now because

it is by doing so that the man would be

doing what should be done with that raft

so i have shown you how the dhamma is

similar to a raft

being for the purpose of crossing over

not for the purpose of grasping

because when you know the dhamma to be

similar to a raft

you should abandon even the teachings

how much more so contra so how much more

so things contrary to the teachings

so in other words

when you experience something wonderful

in jannah or whenever you experience

something like the way of wisdom you

have an attainment or see the links that

depend origination

that's wonderful

but don't make it a big deal

don't get attached to it don't make that

a source of grasping

don't make the dhamma a source of

grasping the dhamma the experience of

the dhamma is for letting go of

suffering

if you grasp wrongly and start clinging

to the dhamma there is still some

suffering that will arise

it won't be through any kind of sensual

craving but it can be for

clinging to the dharma clinging to right

view it can be for craving to be

in a certain state whether it's a jhana

or any other kind of experience rooted

in the dharma

and when that happens then there is a

self which

connects with that dharma which makes

that dharma as me or mine or myself

and because of that there are views that

arise that are that need to be defended

there are insights that arise that need

to be

defended there are concepts and ideas

which then becomes sources for debates

and quarrels and all kinds of things

and when you notice this

if you notice this in your own practice

that you have

attendance

somebody who says something about the

dhamma to

to criticize them because they have

wrong understanding instead of saying

well have you considered it this way

have you thought about it this way or

you know i've heard about it in this way

so there is a way there's a method in

understanding the dharma and being able

to explain the dhamma in a way that is

kind and courteous and intentionally

wholesome but if you go ahead and become

pri uh proud and conceited about the

dharma and say now this is the only way

i know it to be

and this is the way you should be doing

then you are clinging to views

and so now that is the wrong grasping of

the teachings

and so the

and so the buddha says

because there are these six standpoints

for views

what are the standpoints

here be accused an untaught ordinary

person who has no regard for noble ones

and is unskilled and undisciplined in

their dharma

who has no regard for true men and is

unskilled and undisciplined in their

dharma regards material formed us this

is mine this i am this is myself

he regards feelings thus

this

is mine this i am this is myself he

regards perception thus

this is mine this i am this is myself he

regards formations thus

this is mine this i am this is myself he

regards what is seen heard since

cognized encountered sought mentally

pondered thus

this is mine this i am this is myself

the last israeli all about consciousness

awareness of what is seen

awareness of what is heard awareness of

the other sixth sense

the rest of the sixth sense faces and so

on and this standpoint for views namely

namely that which is the self is the

world

after i shall be permanent everlasting

eternal not subject to change i shall

endure as long as eternity this too he

regards thus this is mine this i am this

is myself so this is that viewpoint that

eternalist viewpoint where i am the

athman i am the self and when i die

according to this view when i die

i will become one with brahman one with

cosmic consciousness and i will be

forever immortal and eternal and so on

but there's a lot of

inconsistencies in that view because

that view considers there to be a

permanent self

and if self by definition is supposed to

be permanent and everlasting and

unchanging

then you cannot consider any of these

including the view of this idea of the

personal permanent self to be

to be permanent you cannot because

material form continues to change

feelings continue to change in every

moment perceptions continue to change in

every moment formations and

consciousnesses arise and pass away in

every moment

and so that cannot be considered to be

self the view itself that there is a

self that is permanent and everlasting

arises as a form of a mental

idea that is subject to be experienced

through the process of the mind

and whatever is tied to the experience

of the sixth sense faces which includes

the mind

is dependent upon causes and conditions

and whatever is dependent upon the sixth

sense basis

is liable to change and therefore even

this idea is liable to change it cannot

be considered

something that is independent or outside

the scope of dependent origination

because a well-taught noble disciple who

has regard for noble ones and is skilled

and disciplined in their dhamma who has

regard for true men and is skilled and

disciplined in their dharma

regards material form thus this is not

mine this i am not this is not myself

he regards feeling thus this is not mind

this i am not this is not myself now he

regards perception thus

this is not mine this i am not this is

not myself

he regards formations thus this is not

mine this i am not this is not myself he

regards what is seen heard

sensed cognized encountered sought

mentally pondered thus

this is not mine this i am not this is

not myself

and this standpoint for views namely

that which is the self is the world

after death i shall be permanent

everlasting eternal not subject to

change

i shall endure as long as eternally this

too he regards thus this is not mine

this is this i am not this is not myself

since he regards them thus he is not

agitated about what is non-existent

when this was said

a certain coup and blessed one venerable

sir can there be agitation about what is

non-existent externally there can be

beku the blessed one said yarabiku

someone thinks dust alas i had it

alas i have it no longer

alas may i have it unless alas i do not

get it

then he sorrows greaves and laments he

weeps speeding his breast and becomes

distraught

this is how there is agitation

about what is not

what about what is non-existent

externally

venerable sir can there be

no agitation about what is non-existent

externally

there can be beku the blessed one said

hirabiku someone does not think thus

alas i had it alas i have it no longer

alas may i have it unless alas i do not

get it

then he does not sorrow grieve and

lament he does not weep

beating his breast and becoming

distraught that is how there is no

agitation about what is non-existent

externally

when he talks about what is non-existent

externally what he's talking about this

idea of the brahman this idea about the

supreme cosmic consciousness

if you are experiencing it you are

experiencing it within the scope of the

sixth sense basis namely the mind

if it's a mental experience and you take

that to be something myself or mine or

myself and so on

then when you grasp it you have it when

it goes away you realize i don't have it

anymore and that is liable to cause

suffering but if somebody grasps it

correctly which is actually through not

grasping that is to say understanding

correctly that this experience is just

tied to the experience of mind and

therefore should not be worth holding on

to because it is impersonal

it is not mine it is not me it is not

myself

and they won't have any kind of ideas

about

something being there something not

being there

having been there done they just see

that as an impersonal process

so when they see it this way they won't

have any craving they won't have any

clinging they won't have any being

they won't have birth of new karma new

action and therefore further suffering

and so on

venerable sir can there be

agitation about what is non-existent

internally there can be beku the blessed

one says said

hirobiku someone has the view that which

is the self is the world after death i

shall be permanent everlasting eternal

not subject to change i shall endure as

long as eternity

he hears that

teachings

the

tata teaching the dharma for the

elimination of all standpoints

decisions

obsessions adherences and underlying

tendencies

for the stilling of all formations

or the relinquishing of all attachments

or the destruction of craving

or dispassion for cessation for nibana

he thinks thus

so i shall be annihilated so i shall

perish

so i shall be no more then he sorrows

grieves and laments

he weeps beating his breast and becomes

distraught that is how there is

agitation about what is non-existent

internally

venerable sir can there be no agitation

about what is non-existent internally

there can be beku the blessed one said

you're the biku hirabiku someone does

not have the view that which is the

world itself and i shall endure as long

as eternity

he hears that

or the disciple of the taga teaching the

dhamma for the elimination of all

standpoints decisions

obsessions adherences and underlying

tendencies

for the stilling of all formations for

the relinquishing of all attachments for

the destruction of craving for this

passion for cessation for nibana he does

not think thus so i shall be annihilated

so i shall perish

so i shall be known more

then he does not sorrow grieve and

lament he does not weep beating his

breast and become distraught this is how

there is no agitation about what is

non-existent

internally

so here first we talked about externally

this idea of a cosmic consciousness or

this idea of

some kind of larger self

there's also the idea of the atman there

is that which exists internally within

the body

controlling everything that's going on

this is really what the open issues talk

about they say that the

um the hearer the seer the the the one

who listens

the one who who uh who who smells and

tastes and so on is the atman is the

soul

and uh just a brief aside

of the bar cloth was somebody who had

that understanding from the upanishads

that the seeing the seer and so on

the cognizing the cognizer and so on

these are all part of self part of

athman

and the buddha understood this when he

came to the buddha but he asked him to

give him the teaching to become an

arahant and the buddha said

in the hearing there is only the herd in

the seeing there is only the scene in

the sensing there is only the sense

in the cognizing there is only the

cognized when there is no self

before that

when there is no self in it or any self

after it

then that just is the cessation of

suffering so in the same way here what

the buddha is saying somebody has the

standpoint or the view that i am the

self

i am the independent self that is not

able to be killed and so on and so forth

and so when they come across this

understanding of the dhamma and

nibana

they take that to be annihilationism

and when that happens they see this as

being an annihilationist view but in

truth

the idea that there was a self and then

the self is destroyed and so on is a

wrong view because in truth the idea of

a self in itself

is dependent upon causes and conditions

take away and cease the causes and

conditions and there is no self to begin

with

but that understanding that insight into

the experience of anata

doesn't lead to annihilationism it leads

to the cessation of suffering

so somebody doesn't hold that view

that's what's going to happen they can

correctly grasp the teaching and see

this that it doesn't matter whether

there is a self or not self that's not a

question to be looked at that's not a

question to be understood the question

should be

how does

how does cessation how does suffering

arise and how does it cease

because it's in the process of

independent origination where things are

taken personal as self that the craving

arises and then through that process the

clinging and the being and then from

that sense of self the action that

arises is liable to cause suffering but

when you see it for what it really is

that that this whole process

is impersonal then you're not going to

be causing yourself suffering or

yourself meaning you're not going to

have suffering there's not going to be

an experience of suffering because i

won't be craving clean being or any of

the links that lead to suffering in that

sense

when you're in the practice when you're

deep in quiet mind oftentimes

there will be some kind of a fear that

arises just before cessation happens

and that is the clinging of conceit that

is the formation of

i am

that subtlest formation of i am

is what causes the fear because you're

still taking this to be an impersonal

process

and that clutching to it when you feel

like you're falling when you feel like

everything is going to cease there are

people who describe it in such a way

that they feel like they're going to die

and why they say that or why they feel

that is because they're still coming

from that sense of self

so when you do come across this

experience of cessation just before let

see the fear as being arising because of

that subtle formation of i am

and just relax it and let it go and keep

letting it go and

there won't be any fear and there won't

be any reaction

to that experience prior to the

to the cessation

of perception feeling and consciousness

when there is no fear there won't be any

agitation there won't be any uh clinging

to it linking to this false notion of

self that prevents you or prevents the

mind from experiencing the sensation of

suffering

because that's where that wrong view of

self is holding on to the idea that if i

let go now i'm no longer going to be

alive

and that's true because the self

is impermanent

the idea of consciousness arises and

passes away

an understanding

that the self

as you understand the self to be

impermanent arises and passes away in

every moment and eventually after having

actually seen for yourself

that this is an impersonal process you

no longer put any kind of notion of self

to it and you ultimately experience the

cessation of perception feeling and

consciousness

because you may well acquire that

possession that is

permanent everlasting

eternal not subject to change and that

might endure as long as eternity

but do you see any such possession

because no venerable sir that's an

interesting question so the buddha

starts off with saying you may well

acquire that possession

it's almost like a trick question and he

says

you see that and they say no venerable

sir good because because i too do not

see any possession that is permanent

everlasting eternal

not subject to change and that might

endure as long as eternity

because you may well cling to that

doctrine of self that would not arouse

sorrow lamentation pain grief and

despair in one who clings to it again

it's a true question do you see any such

doctrine of self because

no venerable serb good because i too do

not see any doctrine of self that would

not arouse

sorrow lamentation pain grief and

despair in one who clings to it

because you may well take as a support

that view that would not arouse sorrow

lamentation pain grief and despair in

one who takes it as a support

but do you see any such supportive views

because no venerable sir good because i

too do not see any support for views

that would not arouse

sorrow lamentation pain grief and

despair

and one who takes it as a support that

means even right view you don't want to

take it as a support

see it as the raft it gets you across to

the other shore gets you

away from suffering and ceases suffering

and that's basically what it's used for

don't use that as a standpoint

as a foundation where from which you

cling to that view

because

there being a self

would therefore would there be for me

what belongs to a self yes venerable sir

there being what belongs to his self

would there be for me a self yes

venerable sir

since the self and what belongs to

yourself are not apprehended as true and

established

then this standpoint for views namely

that which is the self is the world

after death i shall be permanent

everlasting eternal

not subject to change i shall endure as

long as eternity

would it not be an utterly and

completely foolish teaching

what else could it be venerable sir but

an utterly and completely foolish

teaching

because what do you think is material

form permanent or impermanent

impermanent venerable sir

is what is impermanent suffering or

happiness

suffering venerable sir

is what is uh impermanent suffering and

subject to change fit to be

regarded thus this is mine this is this

i am this is myself

no venerable sir

because what do you think is feeling is

perception are formations is

consciousness permanent or impermanent

impermanent venerable sir

is what is impermanent suffering or

happiness suffering interval sir

is what is impermanence suffering and

subject to change fit to be regarded

thus

this is mine this i siyam this is myself

no venerable sir

therefore because any form or any kind

of material form whatever whether past

future or present internal or external

brass or subtle

inferior or superior far or near

all material form should be seen as it

actually is with proper wisdom thus

this is not mine this i am not this is

not myself

any kind of feeling whatsoever any kind

of perception any kind of formations

any kind of consciousness whatsoever

whether past

future or present

internal or external gross or subtle

inferior or superior

far or near all consciousness all all

consciousness and the rest of the

aggregates

that is to say feeling perception and

formations

should be seen as it actually is with

proper wisdom thus

this is not mine this i am not this is

not myself

seeing thus because a well-taught noble

disciple becomes disenchanted with form

disenchanted with feeling disenchanted

with perception is enchanted with

formations disenchanted with

consciousness

being disenchanted he becomes

dispassionate

through this passion his mind is

liberated so what we're talking about

here is

yes you might see formations arise in

your practice when you get to the quiet

mind but eventually all of these things

just become

disinteresting they become uninteresting

anymore

because of that there's disenchantment

and you're no longer interested in any

of that you're now just with your object

and you let go of any kind of

formation of i am you're not even

disinterested in you're disenchanted

with that as well and eventually that

leads its passion

and through that dispassion there is

cessation of

perception feeling and consciousness

and then there can be the mind that is

liberated

and so when it is liberated there comes

a knowledge it is liberated and so one

understands birth is

destroyed birth is destroyed in the

sense that there is not going to there's

not going to be any more new action

that is liable to cause new karma

a liberated mind sees all experiences as

old karma and therefore

doesn't hold on to it because it sees it

as being impersonal sees it as being

impermanent

because it sees it that way it won't

have any kind of clinging it won't have

any kind of grasping onto any underlying

tendency

because that's the case there won't be

any kind of craving there won't be any

kind of clinging and therefore there

won't be any kind of being from which

there can be birth of

new karma earth of new action

and ultimately on the macro level no

more rebirth that is how birth is

destroyed the holy one has been lived

what had to be done has been done there

is no more coming to any state of being

because in truth the arahant

has destroyed all all experience of

clinging to a sense of self in relation

any of the five aggregates

there is a definition of being in the

sutas which is one is considered a being

when there is any kind of identification

in relation to any of the five

aggregates

but the arahat sees the five aggregates

as they really are which is impersonal

so there is no more being in that mind

there is no sense of

being in that mind there's nothing to

defend there's nothing to

uh try to hold on to there's nothing

that is to be taken personal

there's so much relief and freedom in

such a mind

because these speed crew is called one

whose crossbar has been lifted whose

trench has been filled in

whose pillar has been uprooted

one who has no bolt

a noble one whose banner is lowered

whose burden is lowered who is

unfettered

and how is the beku one who whose

crossbar has been lifted

here the beku has abandoned ignorance as

cut it off at the root

made it like a palm stump done away with

so that it is no longer subject to

future arising

that is how the beku is the one whose

crossbar has been lifted when we talk

about ignorance we're talking about not

understanding the four noble truths

choosing not to see the four noble

truths in every moment

and that is because of lack of

mindfulness every time the mind slips

and doesn't have mindfulness it adds

energy back to the taint of ignorance

and therefore continues to add strength

to the link of ignorance which continues

to influence the formations that arise

but every time you 6r you regain your

mindfulness every time you are mindful

in the sense of seeing how your

attention moves how the mind's attention

moves and are able to see that process

as being impersonal and not taking it as

a self seeing it as impermanent that

attention that yoni so man is the car

that what i call

that's what i call

attention rooted in reality because it's

rooted in the understanding that this

experience right now

is impersonal that this experience right

now is impermanent and therefore not

worth holding on to every time a person

or being or a mind sees it in this way

they are

moving a

grinding way at aids

the mindfulness you have which is

maintaining your smile

using the six hours whenever craving or

clinging a rise

the more that happens the less there is

ignorance and ultimately wisdom arises

and how is the be crew one whose trench

has been filled in here the beku has

abandoned the round of birds that brings

renewed being has cut it off at the root

so that it is no longer subject to

future arising

rightly so when there is no more

ignorance and one has seen things as

they really are which is to say that

they understand that this is impermanent

this is

impersonal and not worth holding on to

then such a being has cut off any kind

of repeated patterns

when we think about rebirth rebirth

israeli on different levels

there is a rebirth when we talk about in

the arising and passing away of

consciousnesses in every moment

there is a larger level of rebirth from

one lifetime to another but there's a

rebirth that arises when you see that

you start to become acquainted with the

same kind of people and same kind of

situations

rebirth is another way of looking at

insanity definition of which is doing

the same thing over and over and again

expecting a different result

so you find yourself in certain kinds of

patterns or certain kind of situations

that you were in before

and if you have ignorance and you're not

able to see what that process is which

is impersonal and permanent and hold on

to an intention to react to it

there's liable to be rebirth of those

similar situations

but the moment you let go of it you're

not holding on to them and you're seeing

them as being impersonal

then you're whittling away at the old

karma of these situations eventually

if they arise again they won't be seen

as me mine or myself and eventually

won't be dealing with such situations

because the old karma is completely run

out

that is how the biku is one whose trench

has been filled in and how is the beku

one whose pillar has been uprooted

here the biku has abandoned craving has

cut it off at the root so that it no

longer so that it is no longer subject

to future or arising

this is how the be

is one whose pillar has been uprooted

can we talk about craving craving is

taking something to be personal and

seeing it as affecting a me on mine

myself

that is my uh possession i like it

because it makes me feel good i don't

like it because it's painful

or i identify in this way this is really

craving but they are not is one who

takes everything as impersonal and so

even a pleasant experience

painful experience it might hurt the

body but there won't be any agitation

there won't be any aggravation there

won't be any irritation because they're

not taking the body they're not taking

the mind they're not taking anything a

self

and so they have abandoned craving

altogether

and who how is uh the how is the beaker

one who has no bolt here the beku has

abandoned the five lower feathers has

cut them off

at the root

so that they are no longer subject to

future arising this is how the beaker is

one who has

no bolt we talk about the five lower

fetters when they have abandoned that

then you become another gun

that means when you become a sorapana

you let go of any kind of intellectual

belief in a personal self you understand

that this is indeed an impersonal

process

you let go of any doubt in the teaching

or that this is the path leading to

ibana and you let go of any kind of

rights or rituals

or clinging to any kind of rights and

rituals with the belief that they will

take you to nirvana

when you become asaka nagami you weaken

this the

better of sensual craving and you weaken

the fetter of aversion

when you become an onigami you have no

sensual craving coming up at all

and you have no aversion coming up at

all with the sakuragami they might

experience the arising of craving just a

little bit but then they're able to

immediately recognize it and 6r

with the onigami it doesn't happen at

all doesn't come up at all so this is

one who has

abandoned the five lower fetters

and how is the biku a noble one whose

banner is lowered

whose burden is lowered who is

unfettered

here ebike who has abandoned the conceit

i am has cut it off at the root

so that it is no longer subject

the future

arising that is how the beku is a noble

one whose banner is lord

whose burden is lord who is unfettered

you think about the five higher fetters

this is to say restlessness craving for

form realms craving for

being in formless realms

uh conceit and ignorance now consumers

already destroyed once you completely

understand the four noble truths and no

longer take anything to be personal

but

that's ignorance ignorance allows you to

see the

[Music]

the truth of the moment that is to say

you're able to see it in the context of

the four noble truths

you understand suffering you've

abandoned the craving that leads to

suffering you experience a cessation of

suffering and you have perfected the

eightfold path that leads to the

cessation of suffering this is how

ignorance is done away with now the

other three feathers the restlessness

the cling of the craving for being in

the form realm the craving for being in

a foreign is actually dependent upon

conceit

so when you cut off conceit

it's like a house of cards the other

feathers of restlessness

um of craving to be in a form room and

the craving to be uniformless from

completely demolished like a house of

cards

so that's because that sense of i am

arises when you want to be in a jhana or

you desire to be in a jhana or in a form

realm you desire to be in a rupa jana or

in a formless room or you just have

agitation with identifying with

something which could be even the dhamma

itself that this dharma is mine that's

the conceit

that's the restlessness that arises the

agitation from taking that to be mine

when the conceit goes away those

lower three feathers in the five ayah

fetters that restlessness

that craving to be in a form the craving

to be in a performance from those become

destroyed

because the gods with indra that is to

say saka in the tawa teams of heaven

with brahma and with prajapati seek a

beku who is thus liberated in mind they

do not find anything of which they could

say the consciousness of thus gone one

thus god is supported by this

why is that one thus god i say is

untraceable here and now

mind cannot be

understood completely at all they can't

it cannot be traced by the devas or by

the brahmas

that mind is empty of any kind of

clinging empty of any kind of conceit

and ignorance

when you think about the mind of an

arahat there is no sense of being if

there is no sense of being how could

there be a support

for this idea of such a person being

able to be found there's no more person

or personality in the sense of a self

wrong view of self arising in such a

mind

if you were to

let's say hook up

an arahat to the

eeg or any other brainwave detector or

whatever it might be of course there's

activity in that mind because there's

contact there's feeling and there's

perception

but there won't be any sense of self

there won't be any more conceit there's

not going to be any kind of ignorance

so i will venture to say that in that

sense when you do an fmri of a possible

arahant you won't see certain kinds of

networks in the brain

that would be active networks associated

with craving networks associated with

identification

networks associated with the wandering

mind

the arahat's mind is completely empty

it's completely

void of any kind of feather

so because of this it is completely

untraceable in that sense

so saying because so proclaiming i have

been

basis baselessly vainly falsely and

wrongly misrepresented by some recluses

and brahmanas thus

the recluse gotama is one who leads

astray he teaches the annihilation the

destruction the extermination of an

existing being

as i am not as i do not proclaim so have

i been

baselessly vainly falsely and wrongly

misrepresented by some recluses and

brahmins does

the reckless gautama is one who leads

astray he teaches the annihilation the

destruction the extermination of an

existing being

but because both formerly and now what i

teach is suffering and the cessation of

suffering

whenever the buddha says i teach

suffering and the cessation of suffering

he's talking about the arising of

dependent origination that is to say

they are rising from ignorance all the

way to

suffering

when he says suffering when he says

cessation of suffering he's talking

about the cessation of the links of

dependent origination

the cessation of craving which leads to

the cessation of suffering the cessation

clinging the cessation of being the

cessation of ignorance the cessation of

conceit and so on the cessation of

formations feathered by conceived

craving and ignorance

that is the cessation of create of

suffering

if others abuse revile scold and harass

the talgad for that

the taga on that account feels no

annoyance bitterness or dejection of the

heart and if others honor respect revere

and venerate the target for that

on that account

feels no delight joy or elation of the

heart

if others honor respect revere and

venerate the titan for that the tagat on

that account thinks thus

they perform such services as these for

me in regard to which

to this which earlier was fully

understood

therefore because if others abuse revile

scold and harass you on that account you

should not entertain any anoints

bitterness or dejection of the heart

and if others honor respect revere and

venerate you on that account you should

not entertain any delight joy or

relation of the heart

if others honor respect revere and

venerate you on that account you should

think thus they perform such services as

these

for us in regard to this which earlier

was fully understood

there therefore because whatever is not

yours abandon it and you have abandoned

it that will lead to your welfare and

happiness for a long time

what is it that is not yours

material form is not yours abandon it

when you have abandoned it that will

lead to your welfare and happiness for a

long time

feeling is not yours

perception is not yours

formations are not yours consciousness

is not yours abandon them

when you have abandoned them that will

lead to your welfare and happiness for a

long time

because what do you think if people

carried off the grass sticks branches

and leaves in this jetta grove or burned

them or did what they liked with them

would you think

people are carrying us off or burning us

or doing what they like with us

no venerable sir why not

because that is neither our self nor

what belongs to ourself so too because

whatever is not yours abandon it when

you have abandoned it that will lead to

your welfare and happiness for a long

time

what is it that is not yours form is not

yours feeling is not yours perception is

not yours

formations are not yours

consciousness is not yours

abandon it

when you have abandoned it that will

lead to your welfare and happiness for a

long time

because the dhamma well proclaimed by me

thus is clear open evident and free of

patchwork

in the dhamma well proclaimed by me thus

which is clear open evident and free of

patchwork

there is no future round for

manifestation in the case of those bekus

who are our hearts with pains destroyed

who have lived the holy life done what

had to be done

laid down the burden reached their own

goal destroyed the fetters of being

and are completely liberated through

final knowledge

because

the dhamma well proclaimed by me thus is

clear free of patchwork

in the dhamma well proclaimed by me thus

which is clear

free of patchwork those bikus who have

abandoned the five lower fetters that is

to say anagami's are all due to really

appear spontaneously in the pure abodes

and there attain parinabana final nibana

without ever returning from that world

because the

dhamma well proclaimed by me thus is

free clear of is clear free of patchwork

in the dharma well proclaimed by me thus

which is clear free of patchwork

those beakers who have abandoned three

feathers and attenuated lust hate and

delusion

are all once returners

returning once to this world and making

an end of suffering

because the dhamma well proclaimed by me

thus is clear free of patchwork

in the dhamma well proclaimed by me thus

which is clear free of patchwork those

beakers who have attained

who have abandoned three fetters are all

stream enterers

no longer subject to perdition meaning

they are no longer subject to rebirth in

lower realms the animal

the hungry ghosts

and the hell realms

and they are bound for deliverance it

can take up to seven lifetimes it can

take up to three lifetimes you could

even take up to one lifetime

and headed for enlightenment we talked

about that there's the sodapana who

accepts seven lifetimes

there is the sodapana who is known as

the

polankala and that kolankala means from

one family to another

and they'll take rebirth maybe three f

three lifetimes and there is what is

like a

is known as the akabija sort of that's

the one cedar soda panel this is like a

super soda panel which is

very much like a sakuragani but they

take birth in a human realm

and they can end up suffering right

there and then and attain final naivano

because the dhamma well proclaimed by me

thus is free clear free of patchwork in

the dhamma welcome well proclaimed by me

thus which is clear free of patchwork

those because who are dharma followers

or faith followers are all headed for

enlightenment

so dharma followers and faith followers

those are those who do some experience

have some experience with impermanence

and are bound for

island ibano they are stream enterers

actually because they have investigated

and the faculty

of uh

of the dhamma in terms of understanding

the dhamma is strong in the dhamma

followers and with the faith followers

their faculty of faith is stronger and

so they are called faith followers

because the dharma well proclaimed by me

thus is clear open evident and free of

patchwork

in the dhamma well proclaimed by me thus

which is freer which is clear open

evident and free of patchwork

those who have sufficient faith in me

sufficient love for me are all headed

for heaven

these are beings who have

uh conviction in the triple gem

conviction in the buddha and they

maintain their precepts but they haven't

had an attainment yet they haven't

deeply understood through wisdom and

insight and experience

through the process of the jhanas

through the path to nibana

and such beings will

because of their virtue because of their

faith and conviction

they are liable or they can be headed

for the deva realms for the sixth

centurious realms uh heavenly realms

this is what the blessed one said the

beakers were satisfied and delighted in

the blessed one's words

so does anyone have any questions

nelson

hi anthra how you doing good thanks

thank you very much for that

reading and discussion i really

appreciate it

now

thinking about the simile of the raft

and

my question is

in taking the triple gem which we

before setting

what attitude

uh is appropriate in taking the triple

gym

yeah

well for one like when when we go on

retreat and we have the taking of uh

refuge in the triple gem and uh

taking the five precepts or the eight

precepts or whatever that might be or at

home

it should be seen not as a rights and

rituals it should be seen

as a foundation for an uplifted mind

as soon as you take reverence for that

there is an uplifted mind which is

primed for meditation when you take the

precepts

you make a commitment

to remember to take to to follow the

precepts and that causes your mind to be

uplifted

and that creates

the grounds for very good meditation

practice

so i would say

you know even for like someone who has

crossed the str across the to the other

shore and let go of the raft that

doesn't mean that they don't have

reverence for the buddha the dhamma and

the sangha they definitely will still

have it

but they even see the buddha as being

obviously not self they seem they see

the dhamma as also being not self they

see the sangha as well as being not self

but there is still appreciation there's

still gratitude there's still

reverential uh

understanding

that the buddha went through such an

experience went through such a journey

and for that they have gratitude and

appreciation

that the dhamma is so so wonderful and

effective that it leads to this

experience of arahatship and for that

they have gratitude and that there is a

sangha a community that continues to

maintain that tradition and can be a

community of like-minded thinkers

where there can be discussion and

meditation and for that

there is uh reverential appreciation and

gratitude

but it seems to me that um

crossing the river with the raft um and

letting go of the wrath

that happens when you become an arahat

before you become an arahat you're still

clinging to the wrath because you

haven't finished the journey yeah

yeah so as long as some so so as long as

somebody is clinging to the raft which

is to say so as long as somebody is

taking the dharma to be

uh personal

making making things are concepts in the

dhamma that one understands as being a

big deal and seeing it more than it

actually is rather than just a raft to

let you

lead to the cessation of suffering

and that person still has clinging and

that person is not an arahania right

right

however if you're not an arahat there is

clinging to the wrath clinging to the

dhamma because

without doing that you're gonna fall

into the street into the stream and not

ever get across

yes seems like

so what i'm taking away from this is

that

taking the triple gem whether you're

you're just a worldly being or whether

you're an arahat you take it with a

sense of gratitude

yes

this is how i understand it

nelson i have a question for you

yes um

let me talk to you a little bit about

the nogles

oh there we go yeah

there it is

can you give some explanation of what

naga means and what these nagas are what

the naga realm is and are they here

well they're not here in this room right

now but

how do you know

nagas are nagas are known not only in

buddhism but also

in ancient india they were known as

these beings

who resided in what is known as the

realm of the four great kings

but they they can be

experienced in this particular realm

which is to say the human plane of

existence

and nagas

they're basically reptilian in nature or

they're snake-like beings and that's why

even the snakes in india are known in

some ways as nagas or nagini nagini

being the female form and the reason

being is because the snakes or reptiles

have a certain cold-blooded attitude

about things

uh in the same way the nagas actually

the nagas are not able to experience

loving-kindness not experience able to

experience warmer emotions

they're cold and calculating and they're

very protective of the dharma

interestingly enough

uh they have reverence and and so on but

it's it's a very

cold and calculating way of doing it

now

the nagas are also shape-shifters

shape-shifters in the sense like you

have

this concept of reptilians and things

like that that can shape-shift

absolutely they can shape-shift that's

why one of the we talked about this last

time i think where

one of the questions that is asked when

you ordain is are you an animal or are

you a naga uh pretending to be or

impersonating a human

for the very fact that uh there was a

story where there was a naga who

impersonated a human

took ordination and then

late at night when he slept when he was

asleep he changed back to his usual naga

form which is pretty scary i mean it

looks

like a reptilian they have very weird

snake-like eyes and scaly skin and all

kinds of reptilian features

so that definitely scared some of the

monks and there was a rule in the

vineyard that that's one of the

questions that should be asked which is

are you a naga

but there's another understanding that

arahat's also known as nagas not for the

fact that they are reptilian or anything

like that not for the fact that they are

cold and calculating it's because

naga is a contraction of two words in

sanskrit and pali so the na which is uh

and guna means innocent or good so

argona means not innocent or guilty or

blameworthy

and so when you contract these two it's

na aguna naga

one who is blameless and innocent

meaning they have no more fetters they

have no more conceit or other kinds of

feathers that can cause them to be blame

worthy of an action

that's one understanding now are the

reptilians here are the naga here

i mean i've heard stories of them being

in walmart and somebody told me that

they were they saw them at a walmart but

you know i can neither confirm nor deny

that but

but you can encounter them uh there was

a story i i was saying that uh one time

while i was in cambodia

now this is one of those really weird

stories so

you can take it with a grain of salt and

if you want to believe it you can

believe it you don't want to believe it

that's okay

but uh i i was at a i was

staying at my dad's hotel and uh he had

this guy who was uh who was working for

him and he just gave off this really

cold calculating vibes and just just

very

on the surface not very warm and things

like that and i had a realization that

this person is actually a naga and i

actually weirdly enough confronted them

about it

and they said yes

and and

they left they just went away they

realized okay i'm caught

i might as well go so they're around you

know they they can appear in human form

and uh

it's possible that uh

you might encounter one but you won't

know it you if you really look for

certain kinds of elements of what makes

up a naga you wouldn't really know it

you mean the black eyes

[Laughter]

well they can have black eyes they can

have uh

like snake-like eyes like the reptilian

features uh those kinds of things so

nagas will have different colored eyes

and things like that but yeah you're

talking about the children of the black

eyes who have nothing but the black eyes

they can appear in that way too in the

same way you see snakes of different

colored eyes as well you'll see in the

same way for nagas

okay

hi delson

thank you for your talk as insightful as

always nice to see you

i'm wondering if you can elaborate a

little bit

on suffering

uh and the reason why i ask is because i

came across the suture a few years ago

uh you know where

the buddha says because both formerly

now what i teach is suffering and the

cessation of suffering

right so that spoke to me you know a few

years ago i was like great you know

suffering around work suffering around

raising kids you know

lay life all these things are that i

consider suffering

but with the explanation today seem like

the buddha's talking about

the idea of suffering is much more

narrow in some ways

uh even though there's a lot more to it

uh in other words so what i thought

about suffering when i first came to

this path

all right seems to be like not quite

what the buddha's talking about

uh when i think of like i wanted my

suffering i think i don't want any more

troubles at work or troubles with my

co-workers or you know these kind of

mundane sufferings if you will but the

buddha seems to be talking about a whole

other level or type of suffering so can

if you can just help i guess it help me

understand like what that level is and

if is there a way to bridge you know

what i think of as mundane suffering

with what the buddha is really offering

to us

yeah so i i guess it depends on which

suture you read but i know that uh in um

the greater discourse on the four

foundations of mindfulness uh which is

which is uh

which is indiga nikaya i can't remember

which which number it is it's either 14

or 15. i i can't remember which one but

uh in there there's a really good

explanation of the forefront of the four

foundations of mindfulness and within

that

the four noble truths

and the buddha goes and says you know he

talks about suffering and he goes

through each of the different kinds of

suffering suffering includes illness

suffering includes sick aging suffering

includes death

getting what you don't want not getting

what you want

all of these things are suffering so

there's a whole like sort of list of

things so you might want to look at it

it's the mahasati patana so suffering is

also a

unpleasant feeling that's suffering as

well but that's old suffering that's why

i keep delineating it between old and

new which is

everything leading up to a feeling which

is which can be a pleasant or painful or

neutral feeling

is old karma if you add to it by craving

for it or averting against it or

identifying with it then there's new

suffering in the form of or new karma in

the form of craving clinging being birth

of action and uh jarana marana

jaramarana

so but when he talks about you know all

i teach are these two things which is

suffering and

the right uh the cessation of suffering

what he's really referring to is the

parent origination

so dependent origination when you see it

you see the four noble truths in every

link of dependent origination if you

read maj manikayan 9 that that will show

you how that clearly that that works out

but the understanding here is

yes he says i teach affordable truths

but just to encapsulate it he says i

show you how suffering arises through

this process of dependent origination

and such suffering can include pleasant

feelings or sorry pleasant feelings that

might change into unpleasant feelings or

unpleasant feelings it can change to

uh you know different kinds of dukkha

which is like the

which is the dukkha of the body the

suffering of the body suffering of the

mind which is anxiety and depression and

not writing what you want or not getting

what you want

getting what you don't want and all of

these things are divided into three

different categories of suffering

there's the dukkha

there's the vipari nama dhuka and

there's the sankhara dukkha

so the dukkha is really the physical

part of that

well the physical and mental the vipari

is the duke of change

the inherent stability instability of

life which is to say

you know suffering when you miss a

flight

suffering because uh you know your fight

got cancelled suffering because you were

in a hot shower and suddenly it became

cold

suffering because you were expecting it

to be a sunny day and suddenly it

started to rain

you know all of these are also suffering

and

what i'm explaining to you here in that

in those examples

can be extrapolated from

that uh understanding of suffering in

the mahaprabhu

that's uh 22 22.

nikaya 22. you're gonna 22. thank you

yes

thank you

awesome i'll go look at those thank you

so much really appreciate it

let's see i

delson i i really liked the suit a lot

did a really great job on it um

and also the um

the one thing i thought

it was cool about this suit i always

thought it was cool that

all of the different

examples the different um

similes

are mostly about follow the instructions

and everything works fine but if you

deviate from the instructions it doesn't

work right yeah

that's what i was teaching when i was

using this in a retreat about a month

ago and it and also

one of the things i stumbled on in this

that is kind of cool was nobody is stuck

nobody can say i got stuck

i got on this thing about me i had a

bunch of people who were saying i'm so

stuck i'm so stuck i said no nobody's

stuck

and then we talked about what i meant

you know nobody is stuck

only

you know what i mean

yes

yes you talk about that a little bit no

yeah i mean

yeah people you know when they go on the

path and they experience all of these

things in china's they might say oh you

know there was this

restlessness that arose and

and i'm stuck there because of the

restlessness but then as as monte will

say who is restless

you know or who is craving

uh you know or who wants it to be a

certain way and really what he's

pointing out is the impersonal nature of

this process

not only the impersonal nature of

suffering but even the impersonal nature

of the path leading to the cessation of

suffering and the cessation of suffering

itself

and ibana is impersonal so

you're not stuck you don't you're just

well there are there are impediments and

there are blockages and things like that

but it's not happening to anyone

it's just a process that's arising and

you take the tools to

apply whether it's forgiveness or any

other of the processes

like the six hours and so on

and you let go and that's it and in the

letting go you experience some kind of

relief

and by the way even that relief

is not yours

even that experience of nirvana is not

yours even the joy that experiences from

an attainment is not yours

that's cool

and um

the other thing was turning anitra

around

can you talk about anita because like

last year one of my students said

something and i didn't even think about

this before because anita is always

coming to us

as a nietzsche is this impermanence and

change and because we get annoyed with

that and human beings don't like it then

we suffer it and we see it always

presented like that

only she came to me and said she

discovered something and i said what she

said i think anita is my friend

and i said what do you mean

and and she had to tell me you know she

told me well the thing is

if something bad is going on if i just

remember anita it's like i want to put a

team flag on my wall because if i

remember and nietzsche is real in

everything everything is impermanent

then i'm not stuck

yes and that she was talking about not

stuck she wasn't using that term but she

was basically saying you know i'm not

stuck

yeah

did you experience this with this this

two-sided thing about anisha

oh definitely i mean in the beginning if

somebody takes something to be self and

they say oh what do you mean all things

are impermanent

uh then that leads to a lot of

discomfort with that idea because i want

this happy i want this happy feeling to

continue what do you mean that the

jhanas are impermanent i want to

continue feeling these chanas you know

what do you mean loving kindness is

impermanent well it is i mean all

conditioned things

are impermanent that is the

understanding

but i love that fact that she's able to

use impermanence as a friend because in

the realization of impermanence

you abandon any kind of taking of

anything as being personal

and that can lead to a deeper

understanding deeper insights

i know there's like seven different

types of perceptions or sometimes six

different types of perceptions that are

talked about which is they kind of lead

one to the other which is

uh and if i remember correctly it's like

the perception

of impermanence leads to the perception

of understanding dukkha the perception

of understanding dukkha leads to the

perception of understanding anatha and

personal impersonality

that leads to the understanding of

disenchantment and dispassion and

ultimately cessation and so on so

impermanence is really the key to to

start that whole process i've come

across a couple of sutas where the

buddha talks about seeing the

impermanence in this experience

lets you abandon the fetters lets you

abandon any of the attachments

but then seeing the impersonal nature of

things lets you uproot that

meaning so that they are not liable to

return

that they are not liable to emerge again

in terms of the feathers or any of the

attachments

yeah that's good that's cool

and i had a student just yesterday who

came to me

and said well i don't see why i have to

do this with the way you're explaining

it with the path and stuff because i

have i already have the second genre i

have it

and i

have you been have you been confronted

with the person who walks in and says

well i already have the fourth i have it

you know

[Music]

yeah that's the thing who's janna is it

i mean did you buy it at a store and now

you possess it or does it just come out

because of does it come about because of

causes and conditions that's

that's the way to really understand it

it's really terrific yeah thank you

thank you

hi delson um thank you for the talk um

the question for you on the uh the fear

of the cessation and you

pointed that

um could you elaborate more on that and

how to basically confront it and

i mean that that feeling

may come across few times

and

how to basically

embrace it or basically let that go

because

one of the fears could be uh

the fear of uh what happens if i don't

continue the status quo or

if the life gonna change significantly

what happened after that

basically

yeah could you elaborate more on that

how to basically let that go and

make make that passes smoother

yeah

so first of all when it comes to the

experience just before cessation

sometimes people kind of stubble stumble

into it

uh and then experience it and then

experience relief and joy and so on but

sometimes people have this

fear and that fear can be some kind of

blockage that they're not looking at

one of the tools you can use is your

intuition and ask

what is blocking this experience of

cessation to happen what is blocking uh

in the form of this fear

from going further

you ask the question one time

let it go and then like an insight it'll

arise and then it'll let you know what

it is that the mind is attached to that

is preventing

that experience of cessation to happen

and your six art and let it go

and that allows you to actually

experience

in the

in the meditation when that experience

happens

uh or the fear of that experience

happens rather you have the information

of why this is happening and you let it

go right there and then

now letting go doesn't mean you try to

let go letting go doesn't mean i am

letting go because

what is being abandoned is that

formation of i am

what is being abandoned is the sense of

self so how can the self let go of the

self that's that's what you have to

understand it's not that that's not

what's going on

what's actually going on is when there

is an abandoning it's just a letting go

in the form of let's say you're carrying

a heavy burden and you just let it go

that's it there's no there's no there's

nothing beyond just letting go there's

nothing beyond like i have to let go or

i have to do it in the very observation

of seeing that there is a hindrance in

the form of this tension or in the form

of this attachment to self

there is some relief there in seeing

that because it stops that flow and then

you

you relax and you

you you release and you relax and so on

and that lets it go and that that

replaces

that old model of thinking and

perceiving things with a new model it

replaces the unwholesome with the

wholesome so it even the six hours is an

impersonal process

if you see it with that understanding

and you use your intuition

that should help

johnson can we say that that's is that

the same thing as doubt right

that point would be doubt so if we went

to upeck kalasa and

it's one of the ones he said as soon as

you understand that doubt is an

imperfection we abandon it

yeah yes yes and that can happen with

any of the any of the upperculasis or

any of the hindrances in the in the

actual recognition of it it stops it

it stops the flow of any of that doubt

or restlessness or whatever and then the

rest of that process is just uh

doing the rest of the four right efforts

abandoning it by just releasing it

letting it go and relaxing it smiling

which is generating the wholesome and

then maintaining it by collectiveness by

coming back to your objective meditation

so the first right effort of uh

recognizing it or preventing it from

continuing on is happening through that

process of realization

right i guess

the other

side of the coin i guess is one side is

is that fear but the other side of the

coin because

i know there is a lot of talking about

that and you read a lot of that

is the excitement

saying that oh it's happening

and that prevents that as well

so how to i mean how to basically come

across that or how to put that behind

that's the longing that's the other part

of it and actually longing is one of the

classes that are mentioned in the lupica

sutras and uh in the uber killer isuta

and that longing is happening because

you have an intention or an expectation

of how this meditation is going to

happen

or if you don't have an expectation of

how this meditation is going to happen

and you start off with saying let's just

see what happens that's the attitude

that everybody should have like

i don't know what's going to happen with

this meditation let's just see what

happens

if you start continue with that attitude

even when you're in the quiet mind then

there won't be any longing but in the

recognition and that's why i say

arguably that it's uh

it's easy to get into cessation for

stream entry but after stream entry to

get into cessation again is more

difficult because you know the path you

know the signposts you know the things

that are going to lead to that

experience and as soon as you grasp onto

those signposts

there's no cessation so

when you find the mind starting to

recognize and trying to grasp onto these

things

see that as a hindrance and let it go

and just say okay i don't care about

that so that's where the disenchantment

comes in i've seen this before i know

what's going to happen

i don't care i really don't care and

it's not just saying it it's really it's

really just experiencing it it's really

just saying let's just see what happens

and so that's really again redeveloping

if you will the beginner's mind the mind

that says

you know i don't know what to expect

i'm just going to continue on

uh and let's see how the mind unravels

and

that's it

right okay

what was the um the sutra number that

you mentioned is it in uh majimanikai or

is about um

continuation or basically

the the

basically what continued after death i

guess we talked about you on

could you talk a little bit about that

process about

how caramel craving

gonna continue on i guess and

going to manifest so in terms of the

form

is it karma from one person

going to

i don't know keep the whole uh

they uh keep keep it the whole way and

then uh or that from one person gonna

basically uh dismantle multiple car mods

or how how does it work basically

okay i'm trying to understand your

question are you saying um

like how does rebirth work on them on

from one lifetime to the next

[Music]

yes or what do you what do you um okay

so what you should understand uh first

and foremost is um

the last thing that the buddha said and

this is how i understand it to be

very last words of the buddha were that

all conditioned things are impermanent

be mindful and strive for your awakening

i'm paraphrasing here but there's a very

specific thing he says

all unc all condition things are

impermanent and when you read the pali

it the the word of condition comes from

the word sankara

so he was very very uh

very much

wanting people to understand this part

otherwise he would not have said this as

his last words is because fine you can

come to the understanding

that consciousness is impermanent you

see it arising and passing away

but then

okay now you understand that formations

activate the consciousness in the

process of dependent origination

and formations can then give rise to a

new consciousness that takes rebirth

into new mentality materiality but then

that can that can

be misconstrued as saying then that

means formations themselves are also

permanent they're arising and they're

going from one lifetime to the next but

that's wrong

because formations

are dependent upon previous choices and

intentions

formations arise because there is some

kind of contact with the outside world

with the sixth sense spaces

and they will give rise to for example

mental formations

that gives rise to feeling and

perception or verbal formations which

gives rise to verbal speech or bodily

formations which gives rise to breathing

so when the formations arise

they then give rise to consciousness but

that doesn't mean the formation

continues on it just continues so long

as there is some kind of karma to be

played out

so formations are always changing just

like consciousness is always changing

always arising and passing away

when you understand this as well then

you see that it's not that formations

continue on from one lifetime to another

what they do is they activate a certain

type of consciousness that's why it's

understood that your last intention in a

previous life gave rise the the strength

of the craving the strength of the

clinging to that last thought that by

the way arose because of certain

formations

will then be an indicator of your next

life if you cling to it if you cling on

to it what that means is if a person has

been unwholesome all their life

then the formations that arise because

of the continual

making of the choices rooted in the

unwholesome

will give rise to unwholesome thoughts

will give rise to some kind of

unwholesome image

in the form of regret and and that can

give rise to some kind of regret or

remorse or fear or anger or any other

unwholesome

mental actions or thoughts

when that happens there's craving in

there because of that fuel of craving

that cut that formations that that

created that image

uh activates a certain kind of

consciousness that then is established

in a new namarupa which then fades away

and there is a continual arising and

passing away of consciousnesses in that

new being in that new life

now if a person has been wholesome

throughout their life then the choices

because of their choices being wholesome

there will be further wholesome thoughts

there will be formations rooted in the

wholesome which will give rise to

wholesome thoughts which can give rise

to love and kindness which can give rise

to an experience of

joy which can give an experience of

gratitude or

start seeing visions of devas or other

things like that and that's brooded in

the formations so the formations i see

them as carriers of karma but they're

not

they're impersonal and they are not

permanent they do their job in the form

of activating a consciousness which then

cognizes and experience but they fade

away after that so there is a momentum

that is felt by the process of this

experience of formations but that too

fades away and they keep changing so the

more wholesome you are the more you make

choices in the wholesome the more they

tend towards the wholesome the next

arising of formations

can become wholesome

so this whole process of the six hours

is about

purifying let's say the next arising of

formations so formations are always

arising in every given moment arising

and passing away just like consciousness

but the next formation that arises is

dependent on a previous choice you've

made

so if your choice has been wholesome it

will be more often than not a wholesome

formation which will give rise to your

mind

basically automatically inclining to the

wholesome

so what we're talking about here is

really

reconditioning the mind using the tools

of the six r's which is really the noble

eightfold path

recondition the mind from going from

taking things personal and causing

itself suffering the mind that sees

things as being impermanent impersonal

and understanding and leading to the way

of cessation of suffering

when the formations do activate a kind

of consciousness they will activate

because there is some some kind of

personalizing going on even in the

wholesome formations that arise which

can give rise to an experience of a

vapor realm which can give rise to joy

or loving kindness in that moment

because of the taking of it personal

that is liable to create a consciousness

which then becomes established in a new

nama rupa in the new life

that's why there's a story or there's a

suta in which

uh there's a there's an arahant who

passes away and

the buddha points out and says you see

all that black smoke that's around that

that monk

and that is basically

that's basically mara who's looking for

the consciousness of the arahat but

because that arahant has no more

clinging no more craving no more being

there's not going to be any feathered

formations to cling to and because of

that there won't be any new

consciousness that arises and because of

that there won't be a new rebirth

right no that's a really great

explanation and one question on that so

in terms of the right view

one aspect of that

is that uh as buddha mentioned we are

our own house builders

and the previous karma of course built

this house and if you're building

karma we're gonna continue this cycle of

samsara

but then the question is that

this

karma i guess the ownership of the karma

the karma is

mine or we can we can actually

own this karma but there is a way to

escape

building the house again

and

that that's by releasing the karma

basically or just letting it go i don't

know how that past karma are going to

shed

in this life

basically so that's one aspect of and

the other thing is that if karma goes on

in the next life i

can it cause multiple formations or can

it cause multiple

repairs rather than one reverse because

if it is gonna cause one reverse then

it's gonna be similar to okay one soul

goes to the next soul that's all exist

but does it have

any basically different

causing different formations

if my karma or this this karma goes to

the next life

okay

the first you have to understand one

thing right now are you experiencing

karma

well i guess the reason i'm

the karma i don't know no no i mean is

there are you experiencing

uh my voice right now are you

experiencing the sound of my voice

are you experiencing the sight of the

computer screen or maybe the mobile

screen that you're watching the zoom uh

through

yes

yeah that's karma

karma is activity karma is painful

pleasant neutral feeling

that is the

fruit of previous choices

you had an intention to come and join on

this zoom call that's karma as well

so there's a distinction between all

karma and karma

in terms of intention

is karma

vipaka which is a technical term for the

fruition of karma is the fruit or the

effect of your choices

but if you made a choice now

and then that created an experience

later

there's a direct connection between

cause and effect cause being the

intention the karma that you add in the

form of a decision a choice

and karma as vipaka the fruition as an

effect of that choice

but nowhere in between those nowhere in

the process of intention

and nowhere in the process of the effect

was it a personal process in the form of

a self experiencing it

and the reason i say that

is because

can you control right now

what you're going to be hearing can you

control that what volume i'm going to be

speaking can you control

uh the colors that are going to be

appearing on the screen in the way that

your eye sees it

no i cannot yeah

well i mean technically you can by

reducing the volume and things like that

but aside from all of that other stuff

and what i'm what i'm getting at is

anything that you're experiencing right

now in contact feeling and perception

you can't control that so there's no

controller there it's an impersonal

process

so the effects of those choices are

impersonal that's one way of

understanding but how then are the

intentions

impersonal as well because your

intentions are conditioned by

previous effects

so right now if somebody chooses

uh well in the sense that somebody

decides

to shut off the internet

uh or let's say you forget to pay the

the bill for the internet you're no

longer going to be able to see this zoom

you made a choice not to pay and the

effect of that is because of

not not not paying the bill

but in nowhere is there any personal

self in that process of choice every

choice that you take

there is an automation process in the

sense that

it's not that the choice is just

happening on its own the choice happened

because of a series of causes and

conditions that led to that choice

and the series of processes and

conditions causes and conditions that

led to that process of choice

is karma

and so that karma came about because of

a previous choice and that karma came

about because of a previous choice and

so on and so forth but in nowhere was

there an underlying permanent self

experiencing that

because you might have made a choice

i mean just a very general general idea

you might have made a choice to to save

up for college let's say when you were

younger

or your parents made the choice they

opened up a bank account you made up a

choice to save up for college

that was one sense of self that you had

but the one who experienced

the fruits of that is that another sense

of self or is that the same sense of

self

that's what i'm trying to get at here

it's all impersonal it's just a series

of choices causes and conditions that

lead to the next series of causes

choices and conditions

now when the buddha says you are the

inheritor of your karma what he's trying

to say is

the choices that you made previously led

you to this karma

so anything that happens in the context

of dependent origination from formations

up until feeling

are the effects of previous choices that

you had how you choose to see it will

determine new choices if you choose to

have craving if you choose to have

clinging if you choose to have habitual

tendencies

that will create birth of new karma and

spurt of new action

and so you are creating karma in this

way

now

the

negantas or the jains had this idea that

i am going to purify my karma through

self-mortification

and other things

like that so the buddha said

how do you know like is there a bank

balance of what karma is remaining and

when karma has been purified how do you

know that

and they said we don't know it so how do

you know that in every moment karma is

being

experienced then karma is being

let go of

this is the way to understand it now in

the context of seeing that you have

formations all the way from formations

up to contact feeling and perception as

being old karma

then you are experiencing the karma of

previous choices

how you choose to take this moment will

lead you to either acting upon

that feeling in a way that creates

craving and identification

thus perpetuating that karma over and

over and over every time you do that or

purifying the mind through taking the

precepts through sila

cultivating the mind through

through bhavana or samadhi through the

jhana practice

through

collectedness

and purifying your view

through insight that arising of

understanding the wisdom that arises

because of seeing the penetration nation

and the four noble truths

when that happens then the mind becomes

so pure and so mindful that it no longer

takes any feeling

the end point of any old karma as being

personal it sees it all as being

impersonal and therefore doesn't react

to it doesn't have any underlying

tendencies that underlie the feeling

that allowable to create further craving

and clinging so karma is something that

is to be felt and experienced that is

the old karma any new karma that arises

is because you chose or somebody chose

to take it personally somebody chose to

identify with it somebody chose to have

craving or clinging to it or aversion

and

ill will towards it when you see in that

mindfulness that that feeling was

impersonal

then you're not going to react in a way

that is outside the scope of the

eightfold path but if you react that is

some if you react in a way or respond

through within the scope within the

bounds of the eightfold path and that is

the cessation of karma

buddha says that the way leading to the

cessation of karma is the eightfold path

why because

not only do you have right view you have

right intention which is an intention

rooted in letting go and abandoning

rooted and ill

rooted in non-ill will or loving

kindness rooted in non-cruelty or

compassion that gives rise to right

speech you speak when it is timely you

speak true words you speak in a kind

manner that is not liable to cause

further karma you act in a way that

doesn't cause pain and suffering for

yourself or to others you have a

livelihood that doesn't cause pain and

suffering to yourself or to others

you use the six hours which is right

effort and therefore you're mindful in

every moment which allows you to see the

experience as being what it really is

and therefore not adding any more

reactions that are liable to create new

karma

thank you that was a long winded answer

but hopefully

there was some clarity that's great

really appreciated

dustin can i ask you one question in

that

there's a choice in there what about

volition and who chooses

yeah so how would you actually the way i

see

yeah the way i see volition which is

chetna is intention so what i i say or

how i understand it to be is

that every choice is conditioned by

previous choices and so that those

choices are conditioned by contact with

the outside world

so when you have

intention comes first but you have

intention the chaitanya then the comma

the action that we package the ripening

and the kamapala as the fruition but

after the intention there's a volitional

choice to go through with this or not so

volition is separate from caitanya so

who who chooses

yeah there is there's no one who chooses

there is a there's almost an automated

process the way i see it and what i mean

by that is

that volition as you're saying i mean

you're getting really deep into

the the point between the intention and

the action itself because in that moment

of choice

there can be either a choice to act in

the unwholesome or the choice to say

wait the mind is tending to the

unwholesome

and

letting go

and experiencing

so would you say would you say that i'm

trusting my brain or would you say that

i'm trusting my brain that it has

been tr you know in the in the six hours

you the first two

first part of it is purification the

second part of it is retraining the

brain would you say that i tr the brain

is trained enough

because of the repetition of the six r's

that it leans and you're and you're just

wanting to lean

not really choose to to act or not would

you say it that way exactly

yes because

yeah because before you do the eightfold

path before you do the six r's

even those choices are seemingly

automatic

i mean when when somebody chooses to be

unwholesome when someone reacts

in a way that causes anger or creates

anger and suffering

that choice itself tends towards the

unwholesome but the moment you start to

six r the repetition as you say of the

continual six hour process the

repetition of the eightfold path has the

choice inclining towards the wholesome

has a choice inclining towards

the eightfold path

yeah

yeah the six hours is actually

retraining the neural pathways in your

brain to let go of your old habits and

structurally build new neural pathways

in your brain to have a new habit

of the wholesome direct instead of the

unknowns of direction

so if you get if you that's why

practicing this whole practice outside

of just in in the retreater when we're

training people convincing them that

when they say to me you know i didn't

have enough time to sit to practice they

they're thinking i didn't have enough

time to sit at home in the morning sit

at home at night

i'm talking about doing this stuff all

day long

inside and out you see that's what i'm

asking you to do when you leave the

retreat

and then when i i'm checking up on these

women that came through a few a couple

weeks back

a 10-day retreat i'm calling them on a

follow-up on a 30-day checkup i want to

know what these people have been doing

outside of sitting after they moved into

another module for training and what

they're doing it's going to be fun

yes and

and and the way i would look at it is

you have to do the six hours anytime you

recognize the craving anytime you

recognize the aversion anytime you

recognize any of the hindrances arising

what you are doing is

you're training your mind

to see that hindrance as just being

impersonal so any time it starts to

arise you let it go and you replace it

with the wholesome the more you do that

the weaker the hindrance will be the

hindrance the hindrance itself

is old karma

but how you choose to react to that

hindrance will be new karma or the

cessation of that karma that's why every

time you six are the hindrance and it

might come up again it's weaker in the

next cycle of the arising of that

immigrants okay

completely fades away question for you

about what you're saying

and that is are you finding your

vipassana students that are coming from

straight papasana who are trained on the

sensations in the body sensing the

sensations are they going through the

program faster than the people who have

not learned to sense these sensations

because that's what's happening in our

wreck in my records in india

it's finally the place where we get to

a place of agreement that they've had a

set of training and now if they go into

this they're moving much faster

you see because they can sense this the

sensation arising that's the that's the

symptom of the craving and if they let

go they start to let go sooner than the

other students is that happening with

you there in the states

well what i'm seeing or what the way i

explain it is vipassana or straight

vipassana is really just

it's just the first r

meaning they they have a good way of

noting when there's an arising of

sensations they have a good way of

noting when perceptions are arising and

things like that or craving is arising

so it really strengthens the first hour

of recognize or realizing but

what i also tell them after that is once

you recognize it's not just like

okay you're noting it you're actually

doing something with it if it's craving

if you notice there's tightness you're

actually doing something with it by

releasing and relaxing you're actually

doing something with it when you're

re-smiling and

collecting your mind or returning back

to the object of meditation

thanks that's good yeah

okay

any last questions i'll take one more

question nelson um i have a question

about forgiveness meditation

um yes

so it's about

the determination to

stay so that stays shallow enough that i

can still vocalize the forgiveness

and um

sometimes the determination works for me

sometimes it doesn't more recently not

working so much

i think maybe if i understood like how

the determination works like

what makes the determination work it

might be easier to really figure this

out and

stay in a level where i can vocalize and

do the forgiveness

well i would say with forgiveness you

should always be verbalizing and that

will help you to stay in the first jhana

meaning

when you walk you say i forgive you you

forgive me with every step right you say

i forgive you you forgive me

that is verbalizing when you are sitting

down and you you say i forgive myself

for not understanding then you start to

experience

you wait and you see what's happening

and you start to situations might come

people might come up memories might come

up then you say the same thing you

forgive it you relax it i forgive myself

for not understanding somebody else

comes up and you say i forgive you

enough for not understanding so every so

often you say that as a way of letting

the mind stay in that first jhana but

you're always saying it when somebody

comes up i forgive you for not

understanding in doing so you're

experiencing

acceptance of that and letting you go

and move on to the next person and the

next person so

you have to make a determination not in

that sense that you if you just say i

look i forgive myself for not

understanding and then just let go

you have to stay with it and see what's

happening in the way of

a memory or situation or something that

you did or whatever it might have been

and then say it again i forgive you for

not i forgive myself for not

understanding and feel the experience

of you know having let go of that

there's a there's a release that is

experienced

that happens when you say i forgive

myself for not understanding that should

help you stay with that with that

verbalization process

yeah um sometimes this happens like

there's like this tension like i

i don't just feels like the mind is like

getting stiller and so i'm still

verbalized and then it's it's like

there's this tension between the mind

stilling down the verbalization

and then if i

if i keep meditating through that i tend

to get like headaches and feel often

feel off when i quit meditating

so you're saying if you feel the

stillness

and there's a tension arising because

you want to let go of that stillness and

stay with the verbalizing

yeah it's like um there's like the mind

is settling down and at the same time

i'm like still verbalizing and there's

like this tension between the two

i would say that and don't don't take

this out of the wrong context i'm saying

the mind should not be settling down to

that level it should just be verbalizing

i forgive you

not understanding and just

it's it's less of a feeling meditation

at least this is what i'm saying based

on my discussions with david and bonte

it's less of a feeling meditation and

more of a verbalizing meditation because

the experience of the relief that you

feel happens after the meditation then

you feel lighter because you're

forgiving it's just like when i say i

forgive you

i forgive you that's it you know if

somebody says

somebody tells me they forgive me they

just forgive me that's it so the feeling

comes up afterwards the recognition the

recognition or the understanding that

you are forgiven gives the rise to an

experience of release gives rise to an

experience of abandoning

any kind of ill will that might be there

any kind of blockages

due to that experience that might be

there

but every so often just keep saying the

uh say the words

continue with that verbalizing

there's nothing you feel here you feel

after having done the forgiveness

meditation you feel that relief you feel

that release

[Music]

in the instructions for the forgiveness

did you find that where i found the most

recent one he put together was

the instructions for the forgiveness he

basically is um

is saying to you that when you say your

phrase okay

you have to pause and let it sink in

and just watch inside and watch your

mind

for something to happen okay

you have to take your time with this

it's not i say the phrase that somebody

comes up

i i described this when i was trying to

do a full retreat on their forgiveness

which i don't want to do anymore right

now because i use it as a stop for

breaking up blockage more more that way

but

when when we were doing that i would

describe it to them as you have a bunch

of horses in your head and there's a

corral like this it's locked and the

gate the hook is on the gate

okay and what you're doing is convincing

your mind it's okay for you to forgive

and by saying the phrase over and over

again then your mind begins to believe

you

nelson do you feel like this whole thing

this whole practice and teaching people

either

the six hours or the forgiveness is

teaching people a communication system

with their mind

it's a new way to communicate with your

mind and get it to cooperate with you

but it has to trust it when you are

doing these things in the training that

it's okay for you the mind has to

believe that because it's part of your

protection system in the human body

yeah yeah the way i see this whole

process i mean the forgiveness i haven't

actually taught anyone forgiveness so

anything i say to you um jared just take

it with a grain of salt i'm just telling

you what i have learned from bante or

had discussions from with bhante and and

david

but as far as i understand

whether it's the six hours or whether

it's forgiveness

it is a process of

re-reconditioning

because even the eightfold path is

conditioned it's a process of

reconditioning so that you continue to

let go it's a process of changing the

way your mind sees reality

and ultimately coming to a point where

you see things as they really are

when we say you know things as they

really are it means that there's no

projection of self there's no projection

of craving there's no projection of

expectations there's no prejudgment

going on nothing like that and so the

forgiveness tool

is a way to lighten the mind is a way to

let go of certain blockages and it's

only temporary it's only for a short

period of time

where then the mind intuits that okay

now it's time to go back to

the practice of radiating loving

kindness or radiating compassion or

whatever it might be and you'll know it

because you'll feel it um and and to

sister kama's point which is

you stay say the phrase

and you wait and see what comes up and

then

say it again by letting it go when you

say it again to them you let it go so

it's a process of just saying it and

then waiting

and then forgiving them

forgiving any distractions and relaxing

so bonte has said forgive and relax

those are really the two things that

he's doing here

but that is that should only be seen as

a way to come back to loving kindness or

compassion or your your formal

meditation and then from there the

process of the six hours is all about

reconditioning uh the mind so that it

suffers less and ultimately

doesn't suffer anymore at all

okay so i've been talking for a long

time let's uh

share some merit my voice is starting to

get a little dry so

may suffering ones be suffering free and

the fear struck fearlessly may the

grieving shed all grief and may all

beings find relief

may all beings share this merit that we

have thus acquired for the acquisition

of all kinds of happiness

may beings inhabiting space and earth

devas and nagas of mighty power share

this merit of ours

may they long protect the buddha's

dispensation

sadhu saudi

[Music]