From: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ezt9mABXi2A

Context: Throughout this transcript, Bhante Vimalaramsi is the speaker unless otherwise indicated.

okay today is july or

january one of them j months 24th

thus if i heard on one okay this is the

greater discourse

on

of questions and answers

thus if i heard on one occasion the

blessed one was living in sawatee in

jettas grove and at the medical park

then when it was evening the venerable

mahakovita

rose from meditation went to the

venerable sorry puta and exchanged

greetings with him

when this courteous and amiable was

finished he sat down at one side and

said to the venerable sorry puta

one who is unwise

one who is unwise has said friend

with reference to what

is this said one who is unwise

one does not wisely understand

one does not wisely understand friend

that's why it was said

one who is unwise

and what doesn't one wisely understand

one does not wisely understand this is

suffering

how many times you're wisely in there

well that's okay you know what that

means

one does not wisely understand this is

the origin of suffering

one does not wisely understand this is

the cessation of suffering

one does not wisely understand this is

the way leading to the cessation of

suffering

one does not wisely understand one does

not wisely understand friend that's why

it is said

one who is unwise

saying good friend the venerable

mahakojita delighted and rejoiced in the

venerable sorry buddha's words

then he asked a further question

one who is wise

one who is wise is said friend with

reference to what was this said one who

is wise

one wisely understands one wisely

understands friend

that is why it is said one who is wise

what does one wisely understand

one wisely understands this is suffering

one wisely understands

this is the origin of suffering

one wisely understands this is a

cessation of

one wisely understands this is the way

leading to the cessation of suffering

one wisely understands one wisely

understands

that's why it is said one who is wise

consciousness

consciousness is said friend with

reference to what is consciousness said

it cognizes

consciousness

it cognizes friend that's why

consciousness is said what does it

cognize

it cognizes this is pleasant it cognizes

this is painful it cognizes

this is

neither painful nor pleasant it cognizes

it cognizes friend

consciousness gives rise to feelings or

what

or consciousness gives rise to

i don't

quite remember

last night

in order to see

you have to have good working uh

causes us there has to be color and form

when good working i hits color and form

conscious high consciousness arises

meeting of these three things is called

contact

with contact as conditioned feeling

arises

and you'll get more of that in a bit

that is why consciousness is said

wisdom and consciousness friend

are these states conjoined or disjoint

and is it possible to separate each of

these freight states from the other in

order to describe the difference between

them

wisdom and consciousness friend these

states are conjoined

not disjoint

and it is impossible to separate each of

these states from the other in order to

describe the difference between them

for what one wisely understands

that one cognizes and what one cognizes

that one wisely understands

that is why these states are conjoined

not disjoined and it is impossible to

separate each of these states from the

other in order to describe the

difference now listen to this next

question

what is the difference friend

between wisdom and consciousness

these states that are conjoined not

disjoint

difference friend between wisdom and

consciousness these states that are

conjoined not disjoint is this

wisdom is to be developed

and consciousness is to be fully

understood

feeling

feeling friend

feeling is said friend

with reference to what was this said

it feels

it feels friend

that is why feeling is said

what does it feel it feels pleasure it

feels pain it feels neither pain nor

pleasure

it feels it feels friends that is why

feeling is said

perception

perception is said friend with reference

to what his perception said

it perceives

it perceives friend that is why

perception is said

what does it perceive

it perceives blue it perceives yellow it

perceives red it perceives white it

perceives it perceives

perception is the thing that gives it

name

whatever that is you look at that you

say cup

so it's

also recognition

like

to perceive and give it a name you

already have

no

well

you already if you cognize something

and then your mind says

that's what this is

it comes up with the concept

okay

this is blue this is red this is white

this is yellow the name comes up with

the concept

the name and the concept are one in the

same yeah

now

feeling perception and consciousness

friend

are these states conjoined or disjoined

and it is is it possible to separate

each of these states from the others in

order to describe the difference between

them

feeling perception and consciousness

friend

these states are conjoined not disjoint

and it is impossible to separate each of

these states from the others in order to

describe the difference between them

listen closely for what one feels

that one perceives

and what one perceives

that one cognizes

that is why these states are conjoined

not disjoint it's impossible to separate

each of these states from the other in

order to describe the difference between

them

friend

what can be known by purified mind

consciousness released from the five

faculties

friend by purified mind consciousness

released from the five faculties

the base of infinite space can be known

thus space is infinite

the base of infinite consciousness can

be known consciousness is infinite

released from the five faculties what

are we talking about

processes

physical senses right it's mind only

unless there is contact

if you're sitting

and i come up and touch you you will

feel that

because there was contact

but your mind has a strong equanimity in

it so it's it's

it doesn't shake

you just know that you were touched

if i say something you will hear it

you won't react to it

so it takes contact at the sense doors

in order for the body to be

seen

this is called

subtle

body

and when there is no contact these

things

don't arise so there is mind alone

right

consciousness is infinite and the base

of nothingness can be known thus there

is nothing

friend

with what does one understand a state

that can be known

interesting question

friend one understates a state that can

be known

with the eye of

wisdom

what is the eye of wisdom

saying foreign

seeing everything

without craving

your mind is pure your mind is bright

yeah

friend

what is the purpose of wisdom

the purpose of wisdom friend is direct

knowledge

its purpose is full understanding its

purpose is abandoning

as you get deeper in your meditation

you'll start to understand that in

deeper and deeper ways this is one of

the deeper sutures

yeah it just kind of seems like it would

make sense to me right now yeah you know

friend how many conditions are there for

the arising of right view

interesting question

friend there are two conditions for the

arising of right view

the voice of another

and wise attention

these are the two conditions for the

arising of right view

you don't know right view until you're

really told

in subtle ways

about dependent origination you would

never guess it

friend by how many factors is right view

assisted when it has deliverance of mind

for its

uh path

of fruit

oh no

for its

path and deliverance of mine for its

path and fruition

when it has deliverance of mind by

wisdom and

wisdom for its path and deliverance of

mind for its

for its

path and fruition

friend right view is assisted by five

factors when one has deliverance of mind

for its path

deliverance of mind for its path and

fruition

when it has deliverance of by wisdom for

its path

and deliverance by wisdom for its path

and fruition

here friend right view is assisted by

virtue

learning

discussion

serenity

and insight

right view is assisted by these five

factors

assisted by these five factors has

deliverance of mind for its path

deliverance of mind for its path and

fruition

it has deliverance by wisdom for its

path

deliverance by wisdom for its path and

fruition

friend how many kinds of being are there

there are these three kinds of being

friends sense sphere being

material fine material being

an immaterial being

fine material being

this is gross material

it means

one of the

other higher realms

and immaterial being means getting into

the

arupa-janas and being reborn in a

mind-only state

nobody

friend how is the renewal of being in

the future generated

friend renewal of being in the future is

generated through the delighting in this

and that on the part of

of beings

who are hindered by ignorance and

fettered by craving

you're hindering by ignorance because

you ignore how the four noble truths

work

you're fettered you're hold held down by

the craving

friend how is the renewal of being in

the future not generated

friend with the fading away of ignorance

with the arising of true knowledge

with the cessation of craving renewal of

being in the future is not generated

now we're going to talk a bit about the

first jhana friend what is the first

jhana

here friend quite secluded from sensual

pleasures

secluded from unwholesome states

a monk enters upon and abides in the

first genre which is accompanied by

thinking and examining thought

with joy and happiness born in seclusion

this is called the first genre

may i ask a quick question

the the genres

are described differently in the

theravada

the way they're described here

is so different from

what i've been told they are

because they don't understand what jhana

is

where does their understanding god come

from

teacher to teacher to teacher to teacher

without ever looking to see whether it's

correct or not

zen

uh

lots of different kinds of vipassana

they're deathly afraid of john

but they're practicing a one-pointed

kind of concentration

and

as a result

they say jono will never

you'll never be able to attain nibana

just do straight vipassana instead

that's the way you attain nibana

but actually

you need both

as you hear me say over and over again

you have to have both

friend how many factors does the first

jhana have

friend the first ghana has five factors

here when a monk has entered upon the

first jhana

there occur thinking and examining

thought joy happiness and unification of

mind

that is how the first jhana has five

factors

friend how many factors are abandoned in

the first genre and how many factors are

possessed

friend in the first channel five factors

are abandoned

and five factors are possessed

here when a monk is entered upon

the first john on sensual desire is

abandoned at the time you're in the

drama

ill will is abandoned

sloth and torpor are abandoned

restlessness and anxiety are abandoned

doubt is abandoned

and there occur

thinking and examining thought joy

happiness and unification of mine

that is how the first

gen of five factors are abandoned and

five factors are possessed

friend

these five faculties each have a

separate field

a separate domain

and do not experience each other's field

and domain that is

the i faculty the year faculty that

knows faculty the tongue faculty and the

body faculty

now these five faculties each have their

separate field their separate domain

not experiencing each other's field and

domain

you don't smell with your ears

what is their resort

what experiences their fields and domain

consciousness

friend these five faculties each have a

separate field a separate domain and do

not experience each other's field and

domain that is the i faculty year

faculty

knows faculty tongue faculty and body

faculty

now these five faculties each have a

separate field a separate domain not

experiencing each other's field but no

means

they have mind as their resort and mind

experiences

their fields and domains

friend

as to these five faculties that is the i

ear nose tongue and body faculty

what do these five faculties stand in

dependence on

friend

as to these five faculties that is the

eye ear nose tongue and body faculty

these five faculties stand independence

on vitality

friend what does vitality stand

independence on

vitality stands independence on heat

friend

what does heat stand in dependence on

heat stands independence on

vitality

just now friend we understood the

venerable sorry putu to have said

vitality stands and dependence on heat

and now

you say

heat stands independence on vitality

how should the meaning of this statement

be regarded

a reasonable question yeah

in that case friend i shall give you

assembly

for for some wise men

here understand the meaning of a

statement by means of assembly

just as when an oil lamp is burning its

radiance is seen independence on its

flame

and its flame is seen independence on

its radiance

you don't light a fire you ain't gonna

see any you ain't gonna have any

radiance right right

only when you light it

do you have radiance

but there's no radiance if there is no

fire they depend on each other yeah

that makes sense

take me a second

don't feel bad you're catching on faster

than most people

so too vitality stands independence on

heat and heat stands in dependence on

vitality

friend

our vital formations things that can be

felt

for our vital formations one thing and

things that can be felt another

vital formations friend are not things

that can be felt

if vital formation were things that can

be felt then among

engaged upon the cessation of perception

feeling and consciousness

would not be seen to emerge from it

because vital formations are one thing

and things that can be felt another

a monk who has entered upon the

cessation of perception feeling and

consciousness

can be seen to emerge from it

friend when this body is bereaved of how

many states is it then discarded and

forsaken

left lying senseless like a log

friend when this body is bereaved of

free three states

vitality

heat and consciousness

it is then discarded and forsaken left

lying senseless like a log

friend what is the difference between

one who is dead and one who

and who has completed his time

and a monk who has entered upon the

cessation of perception feeling and

friend in the case of one who is dead

who has completed his time

his bodily formations have ceased and

subsided his verbal formations have

ceased and subsided

as mental formations have ceased and

subsided

his vitality exhausted

his heat has been dissipated

his faculties are broken up fully broken

up

in the case of a monk who has entered

upon the cessation of perception feeling

and consciousness

his bodily formations have ceased and

subsided

his verbal formations have ceased and

subsided

his mental formations have ceased and

subsided

but his vitality is not exhausted

his hate has not been dissipated and his

faculties become exceptionally clear

this is the difference between one who

is dead and one who has completed his

time

and a monk who has entered upon the

cessation of perception feeling in

consciousness

deliverance of mind

friend how many conditions are there for

the attainment of neither painful nor

pleasant deliverance of mine

friend there are four conditions for the

attainment of

the neither

painful nor pleasant deliverance of mine

here with abandoning pleasure and pain

with the previous disappearance of joy

and grief

a monk enters upon and abides in the

fourth jhana

which has neither pain nor pleasure

impurity of mindfulness duty with

imminency

these are the four conditions

for the attainment of neither painful

nor pleasant deliverance of mine

friend how many conditions are there for

the attainment of the signless

deliverance of mine

and there are two conditions for the

attainment of the signless deliverance

of mine

non-attention to all signs

and attention to the signless element

i feel like a flea has been biting my

arm today

no

it's not for real it's the same spot all

the time

do you understand that

i don't understand the

right non-attention to all signs yeah i

understand that

element in other words your mind

goes into the signlessness

this is kind of funny wording to be

quite honest because

your attention is not there anymore

you don't know you're in that state till

you come out

these are the two conditions for the

attainment of the signless deliverance

of mind

friend how many conditions are there for

the persistence of the signless

deliverance of mind

there are three conditions for the

persistence of the sinus deliverance of

mine

non-attention to all signs attention to

the signless element and the prior

determination

of its

duration

so

making determinations

i think i told you

right before you go to sleep i want you

to make a determination what time you're

going to wake up

yeah

okay i don't know if that's the start of

the determination

yeah i mean

i've done that before in my life and it

tends to work most of the time

well you know

then

if you get to a certain place in your

meditation i can

tell you how to get into mastery

and that's working with determination a

lot

so

say you i want you to sit in the first

john and not go any higher than the

first jhana

for

15 minutes and eight seconds

and the next time you sit or next time

you try it i want it to be 14 minutes

and 59 seconds

and the next time you do it i want it to

be 15 minutes and 18 seconds

and when you can hit it every time

then we move up to 30 minutes

and when you can hit that every time

then we move up to an hour

that's crazy

well he's not done yet

then when you come out after an hour i

want you to go in and out of the first

genre in

three seconds

five seconds

and we do that with every job

well

so working with your determinations on

something simple like getting up

is just startup

isn't it that sounds good

and it takes a wee bit of time to finish

it takes a wee bit of time

but it's worth it

yes it is

these are the three condition conditions

for the persistence of

the signless deliverance of mine

now here we're talking about just

arahats

and anagami's

they can go in and out of this state

anytime they want

third stage of

awakening

you've given up

doubt

belief that rights and rituals

lead to nibana

belief in a permanent

a personal self

you've given up

lust

you've given up hatred

so they don't even arise in your mind

anymore

is the doubt that you give up is that

the

hindrance of doubt completely

absolutely so you never question

whether you're doing it writing no you

know

yeah

friend how many conditions are there for

the emergence from the signless

deliverance of mine

friend there are two conditions for the

emergence of the signless deliverance of

mine

attention to all signs and non-attention

to the sign this element

these are the two conditions for the

emergence of the sinus deliverance of

mind

friend

the immeasurable deliverance of mind

the deliverance of mind through

nothingness

the deliverance of mind through voidness

and the signless deliverance of mind

are these states different in meaning

and different in name or are they one in

meaning and different in name only

friend the immeasurable deliverance of

mind

the deliverance of mind through

nothingness the deliverance of mind

through voidness

the signless deliverance of mind

there is a way in which these states are

different in meaning and different in

name

and there is a way in which there are

one in meaning and different name only

you gotta figure it's gotta be of course

what print

is the way in which these things are

different and meaning and different in

name

here are a monk abides pervading one

quarter of his mind imbued with loving

kindness likewise the second likewise

the third likewise the fourth

so above below around and everywhere

and to all as to himself he abides

encompassing

he abides pervading the all-encompassing

work with a mind imbued with loving

kindness

abundant exalted immeasurable

without hostility and without ill will

he abides pervading one quarter of his

mind with compassion

you'll hear about

that he abides pervading one quarter of

his mind with

joy

he abides abides pervading one quarter

of his mind imbued with

equanimity

these are the four brahma viharas

likewise the second the third and the

fourth so above below

around and everywhere

and to all as to himself

he abides pervading the all-encompassing

world with a mind imbued with equanimity

abundant exalted immeasurable

without hostility and without ill will

this is called the immeasurable

deliverance of mine

now what happens when you get

to the fourth jhana with your loving

kindness

you

lose

all of your gross feelings in the body

you don't feel your body

you won't feel a loving kindness here it

will go up into your head

your head is the only thing you'll

really feel

then as you go deeper into the loving

kindness and you start pervading in all

the different directions and that sort

of thing

the feeling of loving-kindness will

change

to a feeling of compassion you have to

tell me what it's like

and you'll start feeling

an expansion

without

without any boundary at all you'll just

feel expansion and all the directions at

the same time

that is called infinite space

then when you go deep enough in infinite

space

you will start to experience

individual consciousnesses arise and

pass away arise and pass away arise and

pass away

it's like looking at a movie that's

going too slow and you're seeing the

individual frames

now that happens at all of your scent

stores

is there a lot of them

wait and see

seemed like there would be a lot

well

that was a million and you're talking

about seeing individual ones

pixels in the tv set yeah yeah beyond hd

extreme

giant screen

okay

you will you're teaching yourself right

there

exactly that everything is impermanent

because it's happening in your your

your

awareness has become so sharp

that you're able to see the individual

consciousnesses

okay

nothing stays the same it's all just

changing the consciousness arises and

passes away the next one comes up and

goes away that's seeing impermanence

isn't it yeah yeah

and it gets kind of tiresome when you

start saying it at all the scent stores

that suffering

and you see up close and personal that

there is no controller

everything is impersonal it's just

happening all on its own yeah

when something hits the eye base

then you're going to see the individual

eye consciousnesses

then here it hits the air base you're

going to see the individual ear

consciousnesses

cool

when you get to that state then i tell

you okay i want you to see what's in

between each one of those consciousness

i don't want much

and the feeling will go from joy to very

very strong equanimity

the mind is not looking outside of

itself anymore

so

there's nothing there

and it's probably one of the most

interesting states of meditation you can

experience

there's nothing there when you there's

nothing

and you'll go through you'll see a bunch

of different things but

nothing this is where you really learn

to fine-tune your energy

just little tiny bits

you might have to fine-tune it eight or

ten times in a city

who knows

it depends on you

things get so subtle

that the vibration that you saw and

nothingness gets so

subtle that you can't tell whether it's

really vibrating or not

this is called a state of

perception or non-perception

and you don't know you're in that state

to come out

at first yeah

and when you come out then you six are

everything that you saw while you were

in that state

there's still stuff that does arise it's

just hard to see it

we're talking about getting into the

very cell

and eventually

your mind will go into the cessation of

perception feeling in consciousness when

it comes out

you will see

the links of dependent origination how

they arise how they cease

it kind of makes sense that you would

see that coming out of that

well everything in buddhism is about

seeing and understanding

right yeah

so when you finally see that this is

exactly how this stuff works

it's such a big oh wow

that you

after you

let go of the formation

there is no more condition

that's nibban

that's how it works

and it can happen at any time

you can get into the cessation of

perception feeling in a consciousness

any time from

experiencing the first genre on

depending on

how ready you are

you would know it

so that's dumb question

and what is the

and what friend is a deliverance of mine

through nothingness

here with the complete surmounting of

the base of infinite consciousness aware

that there is no thing

a monk enters upon and abides in the

base of nothingness thus

this is called the deliverance of mind

through nothingness

and what friend is a deliverance of mind

through voidness

hear a monk gone to the forest or to a

root of a tree or an empty hut reflex

thus

this is void of a self

or of what belongs to itself

this is called the deliverance of mind

through avoidance

i know that a lot of other buddhists

would can't come up with all kinds of

weird ideas about what voidness is yeah

but what are we really saying there

you're saying that

doesn't matter what arises

there is no controller

it's not personal

and what friend is the signless

deliverance of mine here with the

non-attention to all signs a monk enters

upon and abides in the signless

collectedness of mind

this is called the signless deliverance

of mind

this is a way in which these states are

different in meaning and different in

name

and what friend is a way in which these

states are one in meaning and different

in name only

lust is a maker

of measurement

hate is a maker of measurement

delusion is a maker of measurement

a monk whose taints are destroyed

these are abandoned cut off at the root

made like a palm stump done away with so

that they no longer are no longer

subject to future arising

of all the kinds of immeasurable

deliverance of mind the un unshakable

deliverance of mind is pronounced the

best

now that unshakable deliverance of mine

is void of lust void of hate and void of

delusion

what's that saying

it's devoid of

craving

lust

is a something

hatred is a something

delusion

is a something

a monk whose taints are destroyed

these are abandoned

cut off at the root made like a palm

stone done away with so that they no

longer subject the future arising

of all the kinds of deliverance

of mind through

nothingness the unshakable deliverance

of mine is pronounced the best

now that unshakable deliverance of mine

is void of lust

void of hate and void of delusion

lust is a maker of science

hate is a maker of science delusion is a

maker of signs

a monk whose taints are destroyed

these are abandoned

in a monk whose taints are destroyed

these are abandoned

cut off at the root made like a palm

stump done away with so that they are no

longer subject to future arising

of all the kinds of signless deliverance

of mind the unshakable deliverance of

mine is pronounced the best

now that unshakable deliverance of mine

is void of lust void of hate and void of

delusion

this is the way in which these states

are one and meaning indifferent in the

union

that is what the venerable sorry putta

said

the maha

the venerable mock of who he do was

satisfied and delighted in the venerable

sorry people's works

not just the buddha

well he was second to the buddha

in wisdom

it took him a long time

but the thing is

uh

see sorry about mogallana he he and

sorry buddha were buddies

for many many many lifetimes

and they both made a determination that

when a buddha comes around

that they would

meet

and

become the first and second chief

disciple

mogallana was foremost

he was second

to the buddha in psychic ability

sorry putu was second to the buddha in

wisdom that's why i move a lot of their

stories about him going to other realms

and things like that oh yeah yeah he was

always popping around

and he

he lived up at vulture peak for quite a

while

and he'd come down for alms around and

he'd see some hungry ghosts flying

around and he would smile and everybody

looked at him and said what are you

smiling about well i'll tell you when we

get back

and i'll tell you

in the presence of the buddha so you

know that what i saw was really

really there

and then he would do that

and i sat in this cave

really yes

very cool as i understand it that's a

favorite place for the indians to go to

the bathroom

they've cleaned they've cleaned it up oh

yeah

whoa yeah

yeah that sits on vulture's peak it's

almost all the way up you can still go

up higher and then you get to the top

but it's you come down the path there's

indians

guarding it with rifles from like 1850

it's just

but it just it's

entrance-like about like this and the

short guy yeah yeah you have to kind of

you can go in and then it kind of gets

up a little higher you can't stand up

you can sit in there

there's about this much room

really yeah

that doesn't sound like a comfortable

cave at all

no it's not a big this is just for going

in and probably

sitting in

maybe one person to sit you can get

other people in

we had about five

six people in there but

it was small

the whole sandy can

floor

kind of around it

nothing happened

he would now

huh

um a little more sensitive

the last part you were talking about

greed lust and hate

um

creating measurements

and signs

what is that

this that's part of craving that's

distraction

i like it i don't like it mine

that's what they mean when they're

talking about measurements yeah

like i'm better than you

or you're at this level and i'm at this

level and

oh that because your mind is shooting

out

thoughts and

science it's basically having a mind

that has craving in it yeah

because those kind of things measurement

doesn't come up when you don't have

craving

because you're too busy watching

it's really the analysis

um

that's a western disease analyzing

i'll try not to do it anymore right now

because i have more questions but that's

okay you can have all the questions you

want

um

as you're going through the jaundice

it seems like you're

you're traveling a long kind of

dependent origination in some way i'm

really hope so

that's the way i've been teaching it

anyway

yeah

so you're

you're kind of figuring out as you go

it's not like you do all this and then

then you have to understand no you're

teaching yourself each level of jhana is

a level of understanding of how

dependent origination works

that's why when you get to the final

part and you see it

i mean your mind just goes wow

and you understand

okay let's show some americans

may all beings

dispensation

you

okay today is july or

january one of them j months 24th

thus if i heard on one okay this is the

greater discourse

on

of questions and answers

thus if i heard on one occasion the

blessed one was living in sawatee in

jettas grove and at the medical park

then when it was evening the venerable

mahakovita

rose from meditation went to the

venerable sorry puta and exchanged

greetings with him

when this courteous and amiable was

finished he sat down at one side and

said to the venerable sorry puta

one who is unwise

one who is unwise has said friend

with reference to what

is this said one who is unwise

one does not wisely understand

one does not wisely understand friend

that's why it was said

one who is unwise

and what doesn't one wisely understand

one does not wisely understand this is

suffering

how many times you're wisely in there

well that's okay you know what that

means

one does not wisely understand this is

the origin of suffering

one does not wisely understand this is

the cessation of suffering

one does not wisely understand this is

the way leading to the cessation of

suffering

one does not wisely understand one does

not wisely understand friend that's why

it is said

one who is unwise

saying good friend the venerable

mahakojita delighted and rejoiced in the

venerable sorry buddha's words

then he asked a further question

one who is wise

one who is wise is said friend with

reference to what was this said one who

is wise

one wisely understands one wisely

understands friend

that is why it is said one who is wise

what does one wisely understand

one wisely understands this is suffering

one wisely understands

this is the origin of suffering

one wisely understands this is a

cessation of

one wisely understands this is the way

leading to the cessation of suffering

one wisely understands one wisely

understands

that's why it is said one who is wise

consciousness

consciousness is said friend with

reference to what is consciousness said

it cognizes

consciousness

it cognizes friend that's why

consciousness is said what does it

cognize

it cognizes this is pleasant it cognizes

this is painful it cognizes

this is

neither painful nor pleasant it cognizes

it cognizes friend

consciousness gives rise to feelings or

what

or consciousness gives rise to

i don't

quite remember

last night

in order to see

you have to have good working uh

causes us there has to be color and form

when good working i hits color and form

conscious high consciousness arises

meeting of these three things is called

contact

with contact as conditioned feeling

arises

and you'll get more of that in a bit

that is why consciousness is said

wisdom and consciousness friend

are these states conjoined or disjoint

and is it possible to separate each of

these freight states from the other in

order to describe the difference between

them

wisdom and consciousness friend these

states are conjoined

not disjoint

and it is impossible to separate each of

these states from the other in order to

describe the difference between them

for what one wisely understands

that one cognizes and what one cognizes

that one wisely understands

that is why these states are conjoined

not disjoined and it is impossible to

separate each of these states from the

other in order to describe the

difference now listen to this next

question

what is the difference friend

between wisdom and consciousness

these states that are conjoined not

disjoint

difference friend between wisdom and

consciousness these states that are

conjoined not disjoint is this

wisdom is to be developed

and consciousness is to be fully

understood

feeling

feeling friend

feeling is said friend

with reference to what was this said

it feels

it feels friend

that is why feeling is said

what does it feel it feels pleasure it

feels pain it feels neither pain nor

pleasure

it feels it feels friends that is why

feeling is said

perception

perception is said friend with reference

to what his perception said

it perceives

it perceives friend that is why

perception is said

what does it perceive

it perceives blue it perceives yellow it

perceives red it perceives white it

perceives it perceives

perception is the thing that gives it

name

whatever that is you look at that you

say cup

so it's

also recognition

like

to perceive and give it a name you

already have

no

well

you already if you cognize something

and then your mind says

that's what this is

it comes up with the concept

okay

this is blue this is red this is white

this is yellow the name comes up with

the concept

the name and the concept are one in the

same yeah

now

feeling perception and consciousness

friend

are these states conjoined or disjoined

and it is is it possible to separate

each of these states from the others in

order to describe the difference between

them

feeling perception and consciousness

friend

these states are conjoined not disjoint

and it is impossible to separate each of

these states from the others in order to

describe the difference between them

listen closely for what one feels

that one perceives

and what one perceives

that one cognizes

that is why these states are conjoined

not disjoint it's impossible to separate

each of these states from the other in

order to describe the difference between

them

friend

what can be known by purified mind

consciousness released from the five

faculties

friend by purified mind consciousness

released from the five faculties

the base of infinite space can be known

thus space is infinite

the base of infinite consciousness can

be known consciousness is infinite

released from the five faculties what

are we talking about

processes

physical senses right it's mind only

unless there is contact

if you're sitting

and i come up and touch you you will

feel that

because there was contact

but your mind has a strong equanimity in

it so it's it's

it doesn't shake

you just know that you were touched

if i say something you will hear it

you won't react to it

so it takes contact at the sense doors

in order for the body to be

seen

this is called

subtle

body

and when there is no contact these

things

don't arise so there is mind alone

right

consciousness is infinite and the base

of nothingness can be known thus there

is nothing

friend

with what does one understand a state

that can be known

interesting question

friend one understates a state that can

be known

with the eye of

wisdom

what is the eye of wisdom

saying foreign

seeing everything

without craving

your mind is pure your mind is bright

yeah

friend

what is the purpose of wisdom

the purpose of wisdom friend is direct

knowledge

its purpose is full understanding its

purpose is abandoning

as you get deeper in your meditation

you'll start to understand that in

deeper and deeper ways this is one of

the deeper sutures

yeah it just kind of seems like it would

make sense to me right now yeah you know

friend how many conditions are there for

the arising of right view

interesting question

friend there are two conditions for the

arising of right view

the voice of another

and wise attention

these are the two conditions for the

arising of right view

you don't know right view until you're

really told

in subtle ways

about dependent origination you would

never guess it

friend by how many factors is right view

assisted when it has deliverance of mind

for its

uh path

of fruit

oh no

for its

path and deliverance of mine for its

path and fruition

when it has deliverance of mind by

wisdom and

wisdom for its path and deliverance of

mind for its

for its

path and fruition

friend right view is assisted by five

factors when one has deliverance of mind

for its path

deliverance of mind for its path and

fruition

when it has deliverance of by wisdom for

its path

and deliverance by wisdom for its path

and fruition

here friend right view is assisted by

virtue

learning

discussion

serenity

and insight

right view is assisted by these five

factors

assisted by these five factors has

deliverance of mind for its path

deliverance of mind for its path and

fruition

it has deliverance by wisdom for its

path

deliverance by wisdom for its path and

fruition

friend how many kinds of being are there

there are these three kinds of being

friends sense sphere being

material fine material being

an immaterial being

fine material being

this is gross material

it means

one of the

other higher realms

and immaterial being means getting into

the

arupa-janas and being reborn in a

mind-only state

nobody

friend how is the renewal of being in

the future generated

friend renewal of being in the future is

generated through the delighting in this

and that on the part of

of beings

who are hindered by ignorance and

fettered by craving

you're hindering by ignorance because

you ignore how the four noble truths

work

you're fettered you're hold held down by

the craving

friend how is the renewal of being in

the future not generated

friend with the fading away of ignorance

with the arising of true knowledge

with the cessation of craving renewal of

being in the future is not generated

now we're going to talk a bit about the

first jhana friend what is the first

jhana

here friend quite secluded from sensual

pleasures

secluded from unwholesome states

a monk enters upon and abides in the

first genre which is accompanied by

thinking and examining thought

with joy and happiness born in seclusion

this is called the first genre

may i ask a quick question

the the genres

are described differently in the

theravada

the way they're described here

is so different from

what i've been told they are

because they don't understand what jhana

is

where does their understanding god come

from

teacher to teacher to teacher to teacher

without ever looking to see whether it's

correct or not

zen

uh

lots of different kinds of vipassana

they're deathly afraid of john

but they're practicing a one-pointed

kind of concentration

and

as a result

they say jono will never

you'll never be able to attain nibana

just do straight vipassana instead

that's the way you attain nibana

but actually

you need both

as you hear me say over and over again

you have to have both

friend how many factors does the first

jhana have

friend the first ghana has five factors

here when a monk has entered upon the

first jhana

there occur thinking and examining

thought joy happiness and unification of

mind

that is how the first jhana has five

factors

friend how many factors are abandoned in

the first genre and how many factors are

possessed

friend in the first channel five factors

are abandoned

and five factors are possessed

here when a monk is entered upon

the first john on sensual desire is

abandoned at the time you're in the

drama

ill will is abandoned

sloth and torpor are abandoned

restlessness and anxiety are abandoned

doubt is abandoned

and there occur

thinking and examining thought joy

happiness and unification of mine

that is how the first

gen of five factors are abandoned and

five factors are possessed

friend

these five faculties each have a

separate field

a separate domain

and do not experience each other's field

and domain that is

the i faculty the year faculty that

knows faculty the tongue faculty and the

body faculty

now these five faculties each have their

separate field their separate domain

not experiencing each other's field and

domain

you don't smell with your ears

what is their resort

what experiences their fields and domain

consciousness

friend these five faculties each have a

separate field a separate domain and do

not experience each other's field and

domain that is the i faculty year

faculty

knows faculty tongue faculty and body

faculty

now these five faculties each have a

separate field a separate domain not

experiencing each other's field but no

means

they have mind as their resort and mind

experiences

their fields and domains

friend

as to these five faculties that is the i

ear nose tongue and body faculty

what do these five faculties stand in

dependence on

friend

as to these five faculties that is the

eye ear nose tongue and body faculty

these five faculties stand independence

on vitality

friend what does vitality stand

independence on

vitality stands independence on heat

friend

what does heat stand in dependence on

heat stands independence on

vitality

just now friend we understood the

venerable sorry putu to have said

vitality stands and dependence on heat

and now

you say

heat stands independence on vitality

how should the meaning of this statement

be regarded

a reasonable question yeah

in that case friend i shall give you

assembly

for for some wise men

here understand the meaning of a

statement by means of assembly

just as when an oil lamp is burning its

radiance is seen independence on its

flame

and its flame is seen independence on

its radiance

you don't light a fire you ain't gonna

see any you ain't gonna have any

radiance right right

only when you light it

do you have radiance

but there's no radiance if there is no

fire they depend on each other yeah

that makes sense

take me a second

don't feel bad you're catching on faster

than most people

so too vitality stands independence on

heat and heat stands in dependence on

vitality

friend

our vital formations things that can be

felt

for our vital formations one thing and

things that can be felt another

vital formations friend are not things

that can be felt

if vital formation were things that can

be felt then among

engaged upon the cessation of perception

feeling and consciousness

would not be seen to emerge from it

because vital formations are one thing

and things that can be felt another

a monk who has entered upon the

cessation of perception feeling and

consciousness

can be seen to emerge from it

friend when this body is bereaved of how

many states is it then discarded and

forsaken

left lying senseless like a log

friend when this body is bereaved of

free three states

vitality

heat and consciousness

it is then discarded and forsaken left

lying senseless like a log

friend what is the difference between

one who is dead and one who

and who has completed his time

and a monk who has entered upon the

cessation of perception feeling and

friend in the case of one who is dead

who has completed his time

his bodily formations have ceased and

subsided his verbal formations have

ceased and subsided

as mental formations have ceased and

subsided

his vitality exhausted

his heat has been dissipated

his faculties are broken up fully broken

up

in the case of a monk who has entered

upon the cessation of perception feeling

and consciousness

his bodily formations have ceased and

subsided

his verbal formations have ceased and

subsided

his mental formations have ceased and

subsided

but his vitality is not exhausted

his hate has not been dissipated and his

faculties become exceptionally clear

this is the difference between one who

is dead and one who has completed his

time

and a monk who has entered upon the

cessation of perception feeling in

consciousness

deliverance of mind

friend how many conditions are there for

the attainment of neither painful nor

pleasant deliverance of mine

friend there are four conditions for the

attainment of

the neither

painful nor pleasant deliverance of mine

here with abandoning pleasure and pain

with the previous disappearance of joy

and grief

a monk enters upon and abides in the

fourth jhana

which has neither pain nor pleasure

impurity of mindfulness duty with

imminency

these are the four conditions

for the attainment of neither painful

nor pleasant deliverance of mine

friend how many conditions are there for

the attainment of the signless

deliverance of mine

and there are two conditions for the

attainment of the signless deliverance

of mine

non-attention to all signs

and attention to the signless element

i feel like a flea has been biting my

arm today

no

it's not for real it's the same spot all

the time

do you understand that

i don't understand the

right non-attention to all signs yeah i

understand that

element in other words your mind

goes into the signlessness

this is kind of funny wording to be

quite honest because

your attention is not there anymore

you don't know you're in that state till

you come out

these are the two conditions for the

attainment of the signless deliverance

of mind

friend how many conditions are there for

the persistence of the signless

deliverance of mind

there are three conditions for the

persistence of the sinus deliverance of

mine

non-attention to all signs attention to

the signless element and the prior

determination

of its

duration

so

making determinations

i think i told you

right before you go to sleep i want you

to make a determination what time you're

going to wake up

yeah

okay i don't know if that's the start of

the determination

yeah i mean

i've done that before in my life and it

tends to work most of the time

well you know

then

if you get to a certain place in your

meditation i can

tell you how to get into mastery

and that's working with determination a

lot

so

say you i want you to sit in the first

john and not go any higher than the

first jhana

for

15 minutes and eight seconds

and the next time you sit or next time

you try it i want it to be 14 minutes

and 59 seconds

and the next time you do it i want it to

be 15 minutes and 18 seconds

and when you can hit it every time

then we move up to 30 minutes

and when you can hit that every time

then we move up to an hour

that's crazy

well he's not done yet

then when you come out after an hour i

want you to go in and out of the first

genre in

three seconds

five seconds

and we do that with every job

well

so working with your determinations on

something simple like getting up

is just startup

isn't it that sounds good

and it takes a wee bit of time to finish

it takes a wee bit of time

but it's worth it

yes it is

these are the three condition conditions

for the persistence of

the signless deliverance of mine

now here we're talking about just

arahats

and anagami's

they can go in and out of this state

anytime they want

third stage of

awakening

you've given up

doubt

belief that rights and rituals

lead to nibana

belief in a permanent

a personal self

you've given up

lust

you've given up hatred

so they don't even arise in your mind

anymore

is the doubt that you give up is that

the

hindrance of doubt completely

absolutely so you never question

whether you're doing it writing no you

know

yeah

friend how many conditions are there for

the emergence from the signless

deliverance of mine

friend there are two conditions for the

emergence of the signless deliverance of

mine

attention to all signs and non-attention

to the sign this element

these are the two conditions for the

emergence of the sinus deliverance of

mind

friend

the immeasurable deliverance of mind

the deliverance of mind through

nothingness

the deliverance of mind through voidness

and the signless deliverance of mind

are these states different in meaning

and different in name or are they one in

meaning and different in name only

friend the immeasurable deliverance of

mind

the deliverance of mind through

nothingness the deliverance of mind

through voidness

the signless deliverance of mind

there is a way in which these states are

different in meaning and different in

name

and there is a way in which there are

one in meaning and different name only

you gotta figure it's gotta be of course

what print

is the way in which these things are

different and meaning and different in

name

here are a monk abides pervading one

quarter of his mind imbued with loving

kindness likewise the second likewise

the third likewise the fourth

so above below around and everywhere

and to all as to himself he abides

encompassing

he abides pervading the all-encompassing

work with a mind imbued with loving

kindness

abundant exalted immeasurable

without hostility and without ill will

he abides pervading one quarter of his

mind with compassion

you'll hear about

that he abides pervading one quarter of

his mind with

joy

he abides abides pervading one quarter

of his mind imbued with

equanimity

these are the four brahma viharas

likewise the second the third and the

fourth so above below

around and everywhere

and to all as to himself

he abides pervading the all-encompassing

world with a mind imbued with equanimity

abundant exalted immeasurable

without hostility and without ill will

this is called the immeasurable

deliverance of mine

now what happens when you get

to the fourth jhana with your loving

kindness

you

lose

all of your gross feelings in the body

you don't feel your body

you won't feel a loving kindness here it

will go up into your head

your head is the only thing you'll

really feel

then as you go deeper into the loving

kindness and you start pervading in all

the different directions and that sort

of thing

the feeling of loving-kindness will

change

to a feeling of compassion you have to

tell me what it's like

and you'll start feeling

an expansion

without

without any boundary at all you'll just

feel expansion and all the directions at

the same time

that is called infinite space

then when you go deep enough in infinite

space

you will start to experience

individual consciousnesses arise and

pass away arise and pass away arise and

pass away

it's like looking at a movie that's

going too slow and you're seeing the

individual frames

now that happens at all of your scent

stores

is there a lot of them

wait and see

seemed like there would be a lot

well

that was a million and you're talking

about seeing individual ones

pixels in the tv set yeah yeah beyond hd

extreme

giant screen

okay

you will you're teaching yourself right

there

exactly that everything is impermanent

because it's happening in your your

your

awareness has become so sharp

that you're able to see the individual

consciousnesses

okay

nothing stays the same it's all just

changing the consciousness arises and

passes away the next one comes up and

goes away that's seeing impermanence

isn't it yeah yeah

and it gets kind of tiresome when you

start saying it at all the scent stores

that suffering

and you see up close and personal that

there is no controller

everything is impersonal it's just

happening all on its own yeah

when something hits the eye base

then you're going to see the individual

eye consciousnesses

then here it hits the air base you're

going to see the individual ear

consciousnesses

cool

when you get to that state then i tell

you okay i want you to see what's in

between each one of those consciousness

i don't want much

and the feeling will go from joy to very

very strong equanimity

the mind is not looking outside of

itself anymore

so

there's nothing there

and it's probably one of the most

interesting states of meditation you can

experience

there's nothing there when you there's

nothing

and you'll go through you'll see a bunch

of different things but

nothing this is where you really learn

to fine-tune your energy

just little tiny bits

you might have to fine-tune it eight or

ten times in a city

who knows

it depends on you

things get so subtle

that the vibration that you saw and

nothingness gets so

subtle that you can't tell whether it's

really vibrating or not

this is called a state of

perception or non-perception

and you don't know you're in that state

to come out

at first yeah

and when you come out then you six are

everything that you saw while you were

in that state

there's still stuff that does arise it's

just hard to see it

we're talking about getting into the

very cell

and eventually

your mind will go into the cessation of

perception feeling in consciousness when

it comes out

you will see

the links of dependent origination how

they arise how they cease

it kind of makes sense that you would

see that coming out of that

well everything in buddhism is about

seeing and understanding

right yeah

so when you finally see that this is

exactly how this stuff works

it's such a big oh wow

that you

after you

let go of the formation

there is no more condition

that's nibban

that's how it works

and it can happen at any time

you can get into the cessation of

perception feeling in a consciousness

any time from

experiencing the first genre on

depending on

how ready you are

you would know it

so that's dumb question

and what is the

and what friend is a deliverance of mine

through nothingness

here with the complete surmounting of

the base of infinite consciousness aware

that there is no thing

a monk enters upon and abides in the

base of nothingness thus

this is called the deliverance of mind

through nothingness

and what friend is a deliverance of mind

through voidness

hear a monk gone to the forest or to a

root of a tree or an empty hut reflex

thus

this is void of a self

or of what belongs to itself

this is called the deliverance of mind

through avoidance

i know that a lot of other buddhists

would can't come up with all kinds of

weird ideas about what voidness is yeah

but what are we really saying there

you're saying that

doesn't matter what arises

there is no controller

it's not personal

and what friend is the signless

deliverance of mine here with the

non-attention to all signs a monk enters

upon and abides in the signless

collectedness of mind

this is called the signless deliverance

of mind

this is a way in which these states are

different in meaning and different in

name

and what friend is a way in which these

states are one in meaning and different

in name only

lust is a maker

of measurement

hate is a maker of measurement

delusion is a maker of measurement

a monk whose taints are destroyed

these are abandoned cut off at the root

made like a palm stump done away with so

that they no longer are no longer

subject to future arising

of all the kinds of immeasurable

deliverance of mind the un unshakable

deliverance of mind is pronounced the

best

now that unshakable deliverance of mine

is void of lust void of hate and void of

delusion

what's that saying

it's devoid of

craving

lust

is a something

hatred is a something

delusion

is a something

a monk whose taints are destroyed

these are abandoned

cut off at the root made like a palm

stone done away with so that they no

longer subject the future arising

of all the kinds of deliverance

of mind through

nothingness the unshakable deliverance

of mine is pronounced the best

now that unshakable deliverance of mine

is void of lust

void of hate and void of delusion

lust is a maker of science

hate is a maker of science delusion is a

maker of signs

a monk whose taints are destroyed

these are abandoned

in a monk whose taints are destroyed

these are abandoned

cut off at the root made like a palm

stump done away with so that they are no

longer subject to future arising

of all the kinds of signless deliverance

of mind the unshakable deliverance of

mine is pronounced the best

now that unshakable deliverance of mine

is void of lust void of hate and void of

delusion

this is the way in which these states

are one and meaning indifferent in the

union

that is what the venerable sorry putta

said

the maha

the venerable mock of who he do was

satisfied and delighted in the venerable

sorry people's works

not just the buddha

well he was second to the buddha

in wisdom

it took him a long time

but the thing is

uh

see sorry about mogallana he he and

sorry buddha were buddies

for many many many lifetimes

and they both made a determination that

when a buddha comes around

that they would

meet

and

become the first and second chief

disciple

mogallana was foremost

he was second

to the buddha in psychic ability

sorry putu was second to the buddha in

wisdom that's why i move a lot of their

stories about him going to other realms

and things like that oh yeah yeah he was

always popping around

and he

he lived up at vulture peak for quite a

while

and he'd come down for alms around and

he'd see some hungry ghosts flying

around and he would smile and everybody

looked at him and said what are you

smiling about well i'll tell you when we

get back

and i'll tell you

in the presence of the buddha so you

know that what i saw was really

really there

and then he would do that

and i sat in this cave

really yes

very cool as i understand it that's a

favorite place for the indians to go to

the bathroom

they've cleaned they've cleaned it up oh

yeah

whoa yeah

yeah that sits on vulture's peak it's

almost all the way up you can still go

up higher and then you get to the top

but it's you come down the path there's

indians

guarding it with rifles from like 1850

it's just

but it just it's

entrance-like about like this and the

short guy yeah yeah you have to kind of

you can go in and then it kind of gets

up a little higher you can't stand up

you can sit in there

there's about this much room

really yeah

that doesn't sound like a comfortable

cave at all

no it's not a big this is just for going

in and probably

sitting in

maybe one person to sit you can get

other people in

we had about five

six people in there but

it was small

the whole sandy can

floor

kind of around it

nothing happened

he would now

huh

um a little more sensitive

the last part you were talking about

greed lust and hate

um

creating measurements

and signs

what is that

this that's part of craving that's

distraction

i like it i don't like it mine

that's what they mean when they're

talking about measurements yeah

like i'm better than you

or you're at this level and i'm at this

level and

oh that because your mind is shooting

out

thoughts and

science it's basically having a mind

that has craving in it yeah

because those kind of things measurement

doesn't come up when you don't have

craving

because you're too busy watching

it's really the analysis

um

that's a western disease analyzing

i'll try not to do it anymore right now

because i have more questions but that's

okay you can have all the questions you

want

um

as you're going through the jaundice

it seems like you're

you're traveling a long kind of

dependent origination in some way i'm

really hope so

that's the way i've been teaching it

anyway

yeah

so you're

you're kind of figuring out as you go

it's not like you do all this and then

then you have to understand no you're

teaching yourself each level of jhana is

a level of understanding of how

dependent origination works

that's why when you get to the final

part and you see it

i mean your mind just goes wow

and you understand

okay let's show some americans

may all beings

dispensation

you