Context: Throughout this transcript, Bhante Vimalaramsi is the speaker unless otherwise indicated.


thus have I heard on one occasion the

blessed one was living in sawatya jeta's

grove anathapindika's park then the [ __ ]

carpenter panja kanga went to the

venerable who died after paying homage

to him he sat down at one site and asked

a question

pondrá congo was the carpenter for that

monastery and he was there building all

the time so he got to listen to many

Dhamma talks that the Buddha gave so he

was quite knowledgeable in Dhamma

then Roble sir how many kinds of bit

feeling have been stated by the blessed

one three kinds of feeling have been

stated by the blessed one householder

pleasant feeling painful feeling and

neither painful nor pleasant feeling

these three kinds of feeling have been

stated by the Blessed one not three

kinds of feeling have been stated by the

Blessed One venerable Udayan

two kinds of feeling have been stated by

the Blessed One Pleasant feeling and

painful feeling this neither painful nor

pleasant feeling has been stated by the

Blessed One as peaceful and sublime kind

of pleasure a second time in a third

time the venerable Udayan stated his

position a second time in a third time

the carpenter pon Chicago stated his but

the venerable Udayan could not convince

the carpenter pon Chicago nor could the

carpenter pon Chicago convinced the

venerable Udayan

the venerable Ananda heard their

conversation then he went to the Blessed

One after paying

homage to him he sat down at one side

and reported to the Blessed One the

entire conversation between the

venerable Diane and the carpenter

Patrick angga when he had finished the

Blessed one told the venerable Ananda

Ananda it was actually a true

presentation that the carpenter Prime

Chicago would not accept from Udayan and

it was actually a true presentation that

who Diane would not accept from pangäa

konga I have stated two kinds of feeling

in one presentation I have stated three

kinds of feeling in one presentation I

have stated five kinds of feeling in one

presentation five kinds of feeling mad

painful bodily feeling pleasant bodily

feeling painful mental feeling Pleasant

mental feeling and equanimity in Pali

they call it Duke asuka-dono gnosis o

manasa and ooh pika I have stated six

kinds of feeling in another presentation

what are the six kinds of feeling the

feeling at each one of the cent stores

okay you have success stories you have

eyes ears nose tongue body and mind

I have stated 18 kinds of feeling in

another presentation what are the 18

kinds of feelings three times six

pleasant unpleasant neutral at each one

of the centers I have stated 36 kinds of

feeling in another presentation come on

you've heard this more than once

well we don't go to 72 with this suit

what we do is go to a hundred and

hundred and eighty eight but the 36

kinds of feeling have to do with

the there's six householder kind of

feelings and six Sangha kinds of

feelings and they go into each one and

it turns out to be 36 I'll just let it

go at that for right now and then when

there's a hundred and eight kinds of

feelings it's those 36 feelings times 3

which is past present and future that is

how the Dhamma has been shown by me in

different presentations when the Dhamma

has thus been shown by me and different

presentations and may be expected of

those who will not concede and allow and

accept what is well stated and well

spoken by others that they will take to

quarreling and brawling and disputing

stabbing each other with verbal daggers

but it may be expected of those who

concede allow and accept what is well

stated and well spoken by others that

they will live in Concord with mutual

appreciation without disputing blending

like milk and water viewing each other

with kindly eyes Ananda there are these

five cords of sensual pleasure what are

the five forms cognizable by the eye

that are wished for desired agreeable

and likeable connected with sensual

desire and inviting lust sounds

cognizable by the ear that are wished

for desired agreeable and likeable

connected with sensual desire and in

lust odors cognizable by the nose that

are wished for desired agreeable and

likeable connected with sensual desire

and inviting lust flavors cognizable by

the tongue that are wish for desired

agreeable and likeable connected with

sensual desire and inviting lust

tangibles cognize by the body that are

wished for desire agreeable and likable

connected with sensual desire and

inviting lust these are the five cords

of sensual pleasure these five cords of

sensual pleasure is where craving really

gets strong you have a site that you

like or you don't like and that sensual

pleasure of seeing is where your mind

grabs on to it and that craving arises I

like it or I don't like it and then

there's all of the thoughts concepts

opinions ideas and story about why you

like or don't like it in other words you

have thoughts all of a sudden taking you

away from the actual experience that's

the danger with the sense pleasures if

you don't see them the way they actually


you go out into the desert especially in

the springtime and you see beautiful

flowers and what's the first thing you

do when you see that beautiful flower

you stop and you look at it and then you

start thinking about it but there's a

process that happens every time and that

process is the eye hits the color inform

and I consciousness arises the meeting

of these three things is called eye

contact with eye contact as condition I

feeling arises this is not an emotional

feeling this is pleasant painful neither

painful nor pleasant feeling with I

feeling as condition I craving arises I

like it

I don't like it with I craving as

condition clinging arises all of your

thoughts about that and then your

habitual tendency arises right after

that this is where your emotional

attachment really gets strong so your

eye hits that color and form feeling

arises I like it

then tightness happens in your mind and

right after that you start thinking

about what you're seeing

oh this is really beautiful I love this

color I love this little flower it's so

nice I remember when I saw

last year boy it wasn't as good as this

and then your mind just starts popping

around thinking about other things and

you're not even looking at the flower

anymore because you're so caught up in

thinking and your habitual tendency of

thinking so this is a form of suffering

when you begin to understand what the

meditation is about when you look at

something you look at it completely

without the distraction of the craving

arise because you see that feeling come

up and you relax right then now you're

with that flower without any

distractions and because the clinging

doesn't arise the habitual tendency

doesn't arise because the HIPAA [ __ ]

will tend Encino rise the birth of

action doesn't arise because the birth

of action doesn't arise sorrow

lamentation pain grief and despair don't

arise so there's no suffering there's no

thing pulling you away because if you

allow the craving and clinging to come

up all of a sudden you're thinking about

this and then you think about that and

you think about that and you think about

this and you think about that and you

don't even know you have a body anymore

because your mind is so caught up in

these kind of distractions and this is a

major cause of suffering so the central

pleasures they do lead to

liking and disliking and judging and

condemning and you get really caught up

so that you don't even know where the

present moment is or what it is how your

habitual tendency is when I see

something like that I always think about

it this way now you have your emotional

tendency and that emotional tendency

clouds the color of the world you'd be

surprised how many people come to the

meditation center while I'm there and

after a few days they'll come and tell

me how brilliant all the colors are in

the forest why does it seem like they're

so brilliant because they're starting to

see things in black and white to get

their mind is so clouded with so much

stuff but when they come to the

meditation Center and start following

the instructions away that I'm teaching

all of a sudden they're able to see

things the way they actually are without

that mental haze coloring everything

this happens especially with people that

are depressed I have a lot of people

coming to the meditation Center and they

have black and gray clothes and I

suggest to them they might wear a color

other than that well that's the only

kind of color kind of colors I have some


but that's the way they see the world

everything is black great and once your

mind starts letting go of some of its

attachments and ways of looking at

things all of a sudden you're starting

to see colors there was a girl in South

Carolina she's a beautiful woman

black and gray I said what kind of

colors what kind of clothes do you have

in your in your closet oh I have some

brown the most ways but it's great and I

said why don't you try wearing something

that has a bright color oh no I don't

need any of that these are the clothes I

have works just fine

I said you're showing off your mental

state so she finally went out got some

different color clothes and it changed

the way she saw the world she was one of

these people that she read five

newspapers a day no wonder she was

depressed so I told her to stop reading

the newspaper oh how am I gonna know

what's happening if I don't read the

newspaper so you don't know what's

happening so what when I went to Burma I

went in 1990

that was the year that Russia felt like

history this is a major event of the

20th century right I didn't find out

about it until 1992 because I didn't

talk into anybody about that stuff the

only person I was talking to was my

teacher and it was always about the

practice and when I got out of out of

Burma and I found out the Russia fell I

was crushed this is a major thing and

then I started thinking about it well

what's a change in my life didn't change


so what difference does it make

it's just more garbage in if you

actually think about it the news doesn't

really change from one year to the next

it's more of the same stuff and you're a

lot happier if you don't follow it every

day because it gets you depressed then

you can worry

show me one thing about worry that's


it's just another thing to take your

mind away so these kind of sensual

pleasures really cause a lot of

suffering these five cords of sensual

pleasure these are the five cords of

sensual pleasure now the pleasure and

joy that arise dependent on these five

cords of sensual pleasure or called

sensual pleasure should anyone say that

this is the utmost pleasure enjoying

that beings experience I would not

concede that to him why is that because

there's another kind of pleasure loftier

and more sublime than that pleasure what

is that other kind of pleasure here

Ananda quite secluded from sensual

pleasures secluded from unwholesome

States amok enters upon and abides in

the first jhana which is accompanied by

thinking and examining thought with joy

and happiness born of seclusion this is

that other kind of pleasure loftier and

more sublime than the previous pleasure

you've heard me talk quite a bit about

the the hindrances and how they are not

your enemy to fight with how they really

help your meditation to improve because

you need to see how it arises how is the

major question your mind is on your

object of meditation you're thinking

about what you're going to eat tomorrow

at lunch how did that happen

how did your mind go from here over to

there when you start looking at

everything that arises as part of a

process then you won't take it


you don't ask these kind of thoughts and

feelings and sensations to arise you

don't sit in meditation and say well my

back hasn't hurt for a long time it

might as well start hurting now or I

might as well start thinking about

something that happened five years ago

that I didn't like these kind of things

just pop up into your mind what you do

with what arises in the present moment

dictates what happens in the future if

you resist the truth of the present

moment if you try to change the truth of

the present moment if you fight with the

truth of the present moment if you try

to squish it and stop the present moment

from being what it truly is that is the

cause of suffering that's why the

hindrance comes up because of some past

action that was pushed down pushed away

for instance you have a job you can get

up in the morning and you feel real

happy and then you go to work and the

boss greet you at the door and they're

not happy and they're giving you their

anger because of something that happened

what do you generally do you take their

anger you make it your anger and then

you throw it back at and one of the

things that that happens a lot in

relationships is people will start

talking at each other at the same time

okay if I'm talking I don't hear what

you're saying because I hear what I'm

saying and you are talking and you don't

hear what I'm saying you're hearing what

you say and then you get mad and you get

in fights and all of this kind of stuff

and then you go away what do you think

about what they said what I said what I

should have said I'm right and they're

wrong and then just like it's on a tape

deck just like you recorded it same

words same order it all plays over again

who has an attachment who is identifying

with their thoughts and their feelings

who is causing themself pain

so if somebody is coming at you with

dislike the satisfaction of version

anger whatever it happens to be if you

take their feeling as you're feeling now

you have made yourself angry and that is

the start of you causing yourself pain

and then you don't really listening

listen to what that other person says

because you start talking at the same

time so you know what you said you don't

really know what they said and then the

emotions get really high and sometimes

it goes into physical action throwing

things and hitting each other and all of

that kind of stuff

and while you're thinking of what just

happened you get mad at your mate and

you jump in your car and start driving

away and you immediately get an accident

because you're not driving anymore

you're thinking that's how accidents

happen I didn't even see that post there

why because you were thinking you

weren't paying attention to what you

were doing while you were doing it

there's all kinds of instances like this

where we cause our own pain and it's

your choice

it's not anybody else's fault you can't

blame anybody else for your suffering

because you're doing it to yourself

you're causing your own suffering

because your perspective is I am my

thoughts I am my feelings I am my

sensations and I don't like it and with

it this light comes the want to think a

feeling the feeling is painful and our

habit is we try to think our feelings

away and it doesn't work with the

instructions that I gave you in the

they said when you have a pain arise in

your body the first thing you do is you

try to think the pain you think about it

geez I wish it would stop why doesn't it

go away why does it why does it have to

bother me now every thought about the

feeling causes the feeling to get bigger

and more intense so the first thing you

do is let go of your thinking about and

relax now you see the feeling and you

see that tight mental fist of aversion I

don't like that feeling so you try

squishing it it's like that hot cold I

was talking about you pick up a red-hot

charcoal put it in your hand and you say

oh that hurts

so the way you try to make it stop from

hurting is by squeezing it and then go

oh that really hurt so you keep

squeezing and it keeps squeezing it but

what the Buddha tried to teach us is to

allow without getting involved it's only

a feeling it's okay for the feeling to

be there even if it's painful it's okay

it has to be okay because it's there

what are you doing with what arose in

the present moment what I'm trying to

show you is that you need to allow the

present moment to be the way it is

without trying to change it you can't

use the six R's as some kind of a stick

to make it go away doesn't work

you use the six hours to allow that

feeling to be there by itself but you

don't keep your attention on it and you

relax into that let go of that tension

and tightness caused by that feeling

that means you're letting go of the

craving when you let go of the craving

your mind it's clear your mind gets

bright your mind becomes pure then bring

up something wholesome come back to your

object of meditation say all of the

stuff that I'm showing you is all

interconnected this is like like a

weaving it's it goes like this

one of the problems with people that

rely just on commentaries is all of

these separate pieces that I'm talking

about they have a tendency to take them

out and look at them really really

really closely but they never show you

how they're supposed to work together

and that's one of the reasons why

Buddhism in this century is so confusing

for so many people and why there are so

many different ideas about what Buddhism

is because of examining this little tiny

thing instead of seeing that that's part

of the whole in it that's all

interconnected then you've got five

aggregates you have a body you have a

feeling you have perception you have

thoughts you have consciousness when a

painful feeling arises first thing we

try to do

is fake that feeling but the more you

think it the bigger and more intense it

becomes and it can take a little tiny

problem and turn it into the biggest

mountain you've ever seen it there's no

solution for this problem you can't go

over this problem you can't go around

this problem you can't go underneath

this problem it's just such a big thing

in your mind but what happens when you

laugh all of the sudden this huge

problem that has no solution at all and

it's an emergency

after you laugh you see it for what it

actually is and it's just this little

tiny bump in the room but in your mind

you had it built up because you're

identifying with the problem and you're

trying to solve this painful feeling by

your thinking about and your habitual

tendency when this kind of feeling

arises I always do that

so you cause yourself suffering you

cause yourself a lot of undue pain you

need to do that one of the reasons that

I kind of insist that everybody smile is

because you become aware of this as a

process and it's an impersonal process

it's not me it's not mine everything

that arises in your mind is a concept

okay we can't think without concepts

it's impossible what's the concept well

I'm sitting in a chair where is the

chair is it the arms is it the seat is

it the legs is it the back the concept

is something that's made up of a lot of

little parts put together to make up

this idea everything that arises in our

mind is part of a concept as you learn

to look more and more closely to how

this process actually does work it

starts to lead you to more truth

happiness and being in the present

moment you know the only time you're

alive is right this second

everything else is projection of the

future or memory of the past you're not

in the present moment when you're doing

either one of those things so this is a

constant arising and passing away


passing away arising and passing away

the more you can have a light mind that

sees that this is nothing but a process

it's not mine it's just stuff that's

happening right now and it's okay for it

to happen it's okay for it to be there

it has to be okay because it's there I

always get a kick out of going to

different kinds of lectures from

different religions when they start

talking about all of their concepts and

beliefs and opinions and ideas and then

you say something to them about you're

only alive in the present moment

right everything else is wishful

thinking or it's a memory a lot of even

even some of the Hindus or there's no

such a thing as a Hindu that's a new

term a Brahman that it'll stop them cold

and you say well isn't this part of an

impersonal process you don't have any

control about what's happening right

there so anytime you take your feelings

your sensations your emotions personally

you're causing more and more suffering

to yourself

and again you can't blame anybody else

because you're doing it to yourself it's

really amazing how much people want to

blame external suffering as external

things instead of look inside to see how

they're causing that suffering in

themselves what you made me mad

I didn't make you mad you made yourself

man right

but these hindrances are really really

important because that's where we have

in the past had an attachment and we

didn't let it go but we kind of stuffed

it down I was mad at you last week but

I'm now forget about it now then a

similar kind of situation comes up and

that anger you had last week all of a

sudden is on top of the new anger so it

gets more intense but you caused

yourself more and more suffering more

and more pain now when I was talking

about a relationship it doesn't matter

whether it's with a boss or a friend or

a mate whatever it happens to be you

talk they talk at the same time they go

away you start thinking about what you

should have said how you don't like this

and you keep having repeat thoughts

anytime you see that you have

deep thoughts whose thoughts are they

who is attached who is causing

themselves suffering I am but we don't

like to take that responsibility we'd

rather throw it on to somebody else you

made me mad you didn't you made yourself

mad just because what I said or did

didn't agree with your idea of the world

doesn't mean that I'm wrong necessarily

but look at how much pain you caused

yourself and then eventually you kind of

forget about it

and you get off work and you say

everybody leave me alone I've had a bad

day and you go and do whatever to try to

distract yourself away from that

attachment that you didn't like and then

you go to sleep at night and you don't

sleep very well you toss and turn you

wake up very often you have these

thoughts coming in your mind and you

can't get good solid sleep so you wake

up the next day drowsy feeling bad and

you go to work and somebody because

you're not feeling as good as you could

you say don't mess with me today I just

don't feel good so I'm familiar

so by not taking responsibility for your

own thoughts and your own ideas and your

own concepts and your own opinions and

your own cravings by not taking that

responsibility sometimes it will take a

few days before you start to forget it

until another situation comes up and

guess what happens again

that hindrance is there because it was

pushed down now we've been doing this

for lifetimes we've been doing this for

a long time and that is part of the

cause of our tendencies the way that we

start to learn is very important start

to learn to have an uplifted mind you

start to learn that oh this is what

craving is and look at how much pain I

have when I have it and how much pain I

caused myself so you start letting it go

when you're sitting in meditation you

have distraction that's a hindrance it

pulls you away from what you want to be

doing in the present moment which means

staying with your object and meditation

so you let it be you relax you smile you

come back to your object to meditation

whoops you let it be you relax you smile

you come back to your oh there it goes


it doesn't matter how many times your

mind gets distracted by a hindrance what

matters is what you do with that

hindrance when it arises you can't

ignore it because if you ignore it then

there's more suffering there's more pain

there's more dissatisfaction in your

life so

when you start to learn to use the six

hours not only with sitting or

meditating but all of the time you start

letting go of sadness you start letting

go of your habitual tendency of always

thinking this and you get into the

present moment and the present moment

there is contentment there there's no

coloring of anything when you see how

things actually work and the world

starts to be kind of a fun place instead

of kind of a nasty place so it's real

important to learn about the hindrances

and how you cause yourself ade by

resisting a concept an idea an opinion a

past action the more you can see that

for what it is and let it be and relax

and smile and come back to your object

to meditation sometimes your object of

meditation is just smiling

then you're letting go of the suffering

that is the third noble truth the

cessation of suffering your mind is

clear your minds in the present moment

it's not clouded by some past thing as

you become familiar with your old

habitual tendencies that always cause

pain to arise you start going why am i

doing that to myself then do you start

experiencing what true contentment is I

looked up the definition of contentment

in the dictionary it says contentment is

happiness I thought that was kind of


the whole point of the meditation is to

learn how your mind gets distracted how

not why we don't care about why what do

you do with that in the present moment

do you always act with this distraction

in the same way that you always act and

suffer with it or not and it's your


every time you're sitting and your

mindfulness gets a little bit weak

you're staying with your object of

meditation very nicely and you're

mindful it gets weak for whatever reason

all of a sudden you have another

hindrance to work with another

distraction your mind gets pulled away

from that the whole point of the

meditation is to learn from those past

cravings learn how to let them go and

you get clearer and clearer mind as you

go from one meditation stage to the next

you have a more and more clear idea of

hindrances when they arise and this

affects not only while you're sitting in

meditation but it affects you out there

it affects you in life because

hindrances don't only come up while

you're sitting they come up all the time

out there somebody who said that and I

don't like it

somebody did that and I don't like it

what do you think that is it's a


it's an attachment they keep coming up

over and over and over again and all

different kinds of ways until you learn

to recognize how this process works and

the process is the same for everybody

it's exactly the same for everybody

that's one of the brilliance the

brilliant things that the Buddha came up

with it doesn't matter what culture you

come from your mind works the same as

everybody else's so what is cultural

difference nothing really

we're all human beings our mind all work

in the same way that's a pretty

interesting insight so every time you

learn to let go of a hindrance your mind

gets a little bit more clear a little

bit brighter and your understanding of

this process becomes deeper this is how

you go from the first jhana to the

second job it is a level of

understanding that's not a level of

concentration then doesn't that's not it

you're teaching yourself by the way you

handle your hindrances and you start

having more and more equanimity balance

of mind and that starts to come out into

your daily life so you start changing a

little bit so it's a real important


of what the moto is teaching us as you

go deeper in your meditation you go

through the first jhana the second jhana

the third jhana there's all of these

different things that happen at

different levels but they all are

attached to your understanding of this

is a process every thought you have

every opinion you have every concept you

have every time you identify personally

with whatever these thoughts and

opinions are you're caught and causing

yourself more pain and suffering when

you start going into the jhanas and you

start gaining small degrees of balance

of mind and you go to the next round and

it gets a little bit better and you go

to the next John and it gets a little

bit better you're teaching yourself what

the meditation really is you're teaching

yourself by learning how this process


I'll get off my soapbox now

okay when we're talking about what's

happening in the first jhana we still

have thinking and examining thought we

have joy happiness and collectiveness of

mind and what what it's actually talking

about when you get in the first jhana

the joy you experience there's there's

five kinds of joy the first three kinds

of joy can happen for anybody at any

time the last two kinds of joy only

happened through mental development

first kind of joy is when you get

goosebumps get happy and there's some

goosebumps it oh that's thanks the next

kind of joy is like a flash of lightning

it's real intense joy but it's only

there for a brief moment and it fades

away one of the aspects of joy that is

real interesting

always after joy arises the next thing

that happens is your mind becomes

tranquil very calm very peaceful clear


so the next kind of joy that arises is

like standing in the ocean and just

having a wave of joy come over you and

then another wave of joy and this is

really nice

and after that fades away your mind

becomes re peaceful and calm and you

think god this is good stuff but this

can happen for anybody when the

conditions are right the next kind of

joy is called uplifting joy this is the

kind of joy that you experience when you

get into the jhana this kind boy your

mind is very light and your body is very

light and it's a happy feeling and it

has excitement

this is good stuff I'm going to I want

to keep this one but dry will fade away

as long as you don't attach yourself to

it and when the joy fades away you feel

very peaceful and calm you have that

that tranquility and you feel very

comfortable in your mind and in your

body this comfortable feeling is what

the Buddha called happiness and your

mind stays on your object of meditation

very nicely but because you have

thinking and examining thought that this

jhana is not very strong and the thought

can come and you'll be able to catch it

fairly quick but it'll still kind of

knock you off just a bit but you can 6r

that come back very very easily

the last kind of joy is called

all-pervading joy every cell cell in

your body goes whoopee

this kind of joy is the Enlightenment

factor of joy it doesn't have as much

excitement in it it's a little it's not

quite so as intense but there are

certain things that will happen when you

get into this kind of joy or can happen

one thing is you'll be sitting with your

eyes closed then you get into this joy

and all of a sudden your eyes open up

and you go wow that was weird so you

close your eyes your eyes open up oh why

is this happening close your eyes your

eyes open if you want to stay open okay

I don't care I'm going back to my object

of meditation a lot of Buddha images are

portrayed with the Buddha with the eyes

halfway open the artist is telling you

that that's what his experience is a lot

of Buddha images have that little tiny

smile on their face the artist is saying

that they're experiencing joy

now as you start going deeper in your

meditation and you start staying on your

object of meditation for a little bit

longer and then ahead rinse comes up and

completely takes you out of the John and

now you have to work with this but it's

a little bit easier to work with you

don't stay as attached to it you start

noticing this is part of a process and

eventually you let go of that hindrance

the only no relief the joy that arises

is much stronger really feel light and

you feel so light in your body and in

your mind that you feel like you're just

about ready to touch the ceiling

so you kind of open up your eyes to see

whether you're floating or not when that

fades away the tranquility and the

comfort you feel in your mind and in

your body is quite a bit stronger and

you can sit for a longer period of time

being with your object of meditation now

when you get into the second drum this

is where you try to verbalize in your

mind with your spiritual friend may you

be happy may your mind be peaceful and

calm whatever your wish is but it kind

of causes some tightness to arise in

your head if you notice that then you

have to let go of the verbalization the

internal dialogue of making a wish now

you just bring that feeling up of peace

or calm or

happiness or joy or clarity whatever

your wish happens to be you have to feel

that put that feeling in your heart

surround your friend with that feeling

but don't verbalize and you'll be able

to stay a little bit longer on your

object of meditation without distraction

when you get into the second jhana this

is where noble silence actually occurs

because you stop verbalizing in your

mind now you'll be with that for a

little while and then my hindrance comes

up again your mindfulness gets weak now

you have the ham Prince but you're

starting to get a lot of confidence I

know what I'm doing with this now all I

have to do in six hours it'll go away

eventually and eventually you let go of

that hindrance and then you get into the

third jhana now this is always a little

comical time for me because the

meditator will come and talk to me about

what's happening in their meditation and

I say you get any joy no you feeling

comfortable oh yeah real comfortable but

there's no joy you feel strong balance

in your mind oh yeah

really nice strong balanced mindfulness

within sharp oh yeah very good but

there's no joy

so I basically say good continue

everything's going along fine then then

it comes back but I don't have any joy

well you don't have to have joy not all

the time it's there for a little well

your mind is getting more and more

subtle and stronger mindfulness and the

joy is to course a feeling for you now

but you feel real comfortable in your

mind in your body feel very good and

you're able to stay for longer period of

time with your object of meditation your

spiritual friend this is really nice you

start to get more balance in your mind

and you start to lose feeling in

different parts of your body all of a

sudden you're saving and you say no one

hands up into my hands they're not there

it'll feel them then you move a finger

and you go oh it's there no shoulder no

knee no back as you go deeper into the

third jhana the different parts of your

body it's not that they disappear it's

just that they become more subtle and as

you let go of tension and tightness in

your mind you let go of tension and

tightness in your body and that's what

you're feeling

so you stay with your object there your

spiritual friend real well and your mind

has all this nice balance in it and you

hear a sound and it doesn't make your

mind shake you know the sound happened

but it doesn't cause any disturbance in

your mind or you feel about walking on

you you did so Kate you know it's there

but it doesn't make your mind shake then

eventually your mindfulness gets weak

and then you have another hindrance now

you're pretty familiar with the

hindrances and it doesn't really bother

you so much

it's pretty easy to 6rm let them go and

then one of the things that you'll go

into what is called the fourth jhana and

do you lose feeling in your body pretty

much all the way you lose gross feeling

in your body subtle feeling in your body

is still there and it's kind of weird

because you're sitting and all you feel

is from your head up you don't feel

anything else and the feeling of

loving-kindness that was here all of a

sudden that comes up into your head

because you don't feel your body anymore

unless there's contact I come up and

touch you you would feel that but your

equanimity is very strong at this stage

very nice this is where I start changing

your meditation a little bit when you

start working with other other types of

people and

members neutral persons enemies things

like that then I'll change your

meditation again and I will talk about

that right now

and as you go deeper into your practice

the feeling of loving-kindness changes

to a feeling of compassion and the

loving kindness that you feel is or the

compassion that you feel is starting to

grow and it grows and it grows and it's

all directions at the same time and it

doesn't stop there's just this feeling

of expansion and compassion but there's

no center point

as you continue on your mindfulness will

get weak for whatever reason and all of

a sudden you have another hindrance but

now you're pretty pretty familiar with

it and you work with that hendren s' and

all of a sudden the feeling of

compassion changes to a feeling of joy

and you start to see consciousnesses

arise and pass away very quickly it's

like with your eyes it would be like

seeing a movie that's going too slow and

you're seeing the individual picture in

the blank spot in the next picture in

the blank spot that's what happens you

start seeing individual consciousnesses

now to let you know how sharp your

mindfulness is at this time that sound

was about a hundred thousand arising and

passing away of consciousnesses and

you're going to be able to see

individual consciousnesses arise and

pass away arise and pass away and it

happens at each one of the sense doors

it will happen with seeing it will

happen or hearing it will happen with

seeing it'll happen with taste

it'll happen with smell and it'll happen

with touch you don't notice individual

things and that's always kind of an

exciting time because I've come and tell

you why don't you focus on that little

blank spot in the mid in between those

consciousnesses and as you go deeper all

of a sudden the feeling of joy changes

to a very strong feeling of equanimity

now mind is not looking outside of

itself anymore

there's no

external things now you're watching mind

and the different things that happen in

mind and this is a real and this is

called the realm of nothingness this is

a real interesting time this is probably

one of the most interesting states to

experience and there's nothing there's

you start working with the amount of

energy it takes to stay with that

feeling of equanimity and if you use too

much energy you get restless if you

don't use quite enough you get dull so

you're having to learn how to adjust the

energy continually and you start seeing

that everything that arises passes away

now this happens especially in the realm

of infinite consciousness

you see impermanence boy you see it big

time and you see that it's kind of

tiresome it's always changing is always

moving there's always something there

and you see very clearly that there's no

controller it happens all by itself

you see this on even finer levels when

you get into the realm of nothingness

there's all kinds of different things

that occur that I'm not going to tell

you about you have to tell me about and

eventually you'll get to a state well

with your mindfulness becomes weak and

now you have to work with your

hindrances again but they're getting

real subtle then you'll be sitting and

you go very deeply into your meditation

and you come and you start talking to me

about it

say is it possible to be asleep and

aware at the same time you have no idea

how many people come and ask me that

kind of thing ah it sounds like there's

the realm of neither perception nor

non-perception neither feeling or non

feeling neither

consciousness nor non consciousness

when you go into this it feels like

you're asleep but you're aware when you

come out of that state then what the

hell would you have to do to start

reflecting on what you saw when you were

in that state because the perception is

kind of there and kind of not then your

feeling is kind of there and kind of not

in your consciousness is kind of there

and kind of not but when you come out

you'll remember what you saw and you'll

see colors and you'll see shapes and

other things and u6r those by now your

six RS are starting to be much more

automatic so you have to do is put your

attention on something in that flow of

the six artists starts happening make

sure there's a relaxed step in

when you sit and you get used to this

then it doesn't seem like yer escape so

much but you become more familiar with

the subtleness of perception and feeling

and consciousness all of these these

different states that I've been talking

about are from infinite space infinite

consciousness nothingness neither

perception nor non-perception are called

immaterial jhanas immaterial States

these are all different aspects of the

fourth jhana they're more subtle than

the actual fourth drug eventually you'll

get to a place where everything stops

there is no more perception there is no

more feeling there is no more

consciousness stops just like taking a

light turning it off nothing there

you'll be that way for a period of time

three minutes five minutes ten minutes

something like that when you come out

you will see the links of dependent

origination arise and pass away and you

will understand this is what itwhat

dependent re this thing we call living

is it's just this process of dependent

origination as you let go of all of the

links of dependent origination you're

letting go of all conditioned things

when you let go of all conditioned


then the unconditioned arises that is

Nevada and you'll be in that for a

period of time and when you come out you

come running over to me and tell me how

great it is and what I'll tell you to do

is oh good go sit because you will be

happy I mean you finally got this thing

called life you finally figure it out

you've seen it you've realized it you

know for a fact that's the way it works

so I want you to go as high as far as

you can so I tell you to go sit some

more but it's real hard to sit now say

that for you

so the whole thing with the jhanas is

they're just different levels of your

understanding of how this process

actually does work and you're teaching

yourself that right now when you see a

feeling arise and then you see this

tightness or you see that these thoughts

and you see these abilities you start

6re you start letting them go you start

letting a big you're teaching yourself

because of the hindrances the hindrances

are showing you exactly how dependent

origination works exactly so this is not

a a trivial thing that I'm showing you

we let the Buddha's showing I'm not

showing you anything it's really really

important for you to understand how this

process works how do you cause yourself

suffering you keep on thinking the same

kinds of thoughts over and over again

and you keep on reacting the way you

always act and that kind of thought

arises you're causing yourself suffering

what the Buddha wants to teach us is not

how to react but how to respond okay you

respond by using the six R's and letting

go of that attachment well I'm not as

happy as I want to be okay what do you

do with that keep focusing your mind on

happiness what you think and ponder on

that's inclination of your mind does

that sound familiar you aren't

responsible for yourself I can't make

you happy you have to make yourself


okay so does anybody have any questions

yeah why is it so hard to meditate after

you experience the moms and it really

easy yes or not it's hard because you

have so much joy you can't hardly and

you've got it figured out and it just

makes you so happy that you wanna I can

do this that's the big oh wow that's the

one we're working for the joy in

infinite consciousness is that the fifth

time is that you get and the joy of the

bottom is different

it is all pervading I'll give you that

and even your toes are happy their

toenails are at everything that first

foundation of my friend yeah you speak

to that well okay something one is be

suffering free in the fearless be in

degree D shed I'll brief and Al being

spinal relief may all be shared merit

that we've thus acquired for the

acquisition of all kinds of happiness

may be inhabiting place under Davis and

not as of might power share this merit

of ours and they long protect the

Buddhist dispositions