From: https://youtube.com/watch?v=H3XOmzo3rFc

Context: Throughout this transcript, Bhante Vimalaramsi is the speaker unless otherwise indicated.

maybe i can start with that

this particular suit

is in the

uh section on the the

seven enlightenment factors so you're

going to get to hearing seven

enlightenment factors also

he'll be your moment here you have to

wait

you and just enumerate all

seven there was an argument yesterday

about the last three

i couldn't understand that the last

three are one is

tranquility and another one

is samadhi but

i know that samadhi is in tranquility

but

that there is a difference and then it's

tan quilt

and then there is upeka the next one and

there are wonderful

different levels but i was doubting that

samadhi is one

oh that's that's right it's not

it is it is it is now that would be now

wonderful to see

the difference between samadhi and

economic economically well

the samadhi that we're talking about

here

is the jhanas yeah

all right i'm happy and and also

i don't use the word concentration when

the word samadhi comes up

i use the word uh collectedness

yeah i i just i see collected this la is

that

equal to be taken with one pointedness

no no also that's that's why i don't use

concentration because everybody that

hears the word concentration

that's what they think it is it isn't

and

it isn't that no samadhi

was actually made up

the buddha made this word up to describe

a different kind of

mental development

because during that time there was an

awful lot of people practicing one

pointed concentration

that's right and still and

i was talking last night about maybe

99 of the people still far yeah

the majority identifies

meditation this concentration yeah

and even a lot of the

the passage teachers consider that

that way

they they have the idea

that uh

you should never practice concentration

you should only

practice vipassana that's right

and they say that you you can't get to

nibana by practicing concentration

and they're right you can't

but when you practice collectiveness

that means that what you're practicing

is

that's right and that's that's a

different kind

of job

and actually i'm starting to have an

impact on people

because i'm hearing some of my uh thank

you

some of my uh teacher friends are

starting to use the word

sama to vipassana and they're starting

to talk about dependent origination now

so it's starting to have a little bit of

an effect

oh isn't that better

now it's all clear

on one occasion the blessed one was

dwelling

among the colions

where there was a town of the kolyans

named

haleidovan

then in the morning a number of monks

dressed and taking their

bowls and robes entered the town for

homes then it occurred to them

it is still too early for all to walk

for alms

in the town let's go to the park of the

wanderers of

other sects then those monks

went to the park of the wanderers of

other sects

they exchanged greetings with those

wanderers

and when they had concluded their

greetings and cordial talk

sat down to one side the wanderers then

said to them

friends the ascetic gotuma teaches the

dhamma to his disciples thus

come monks abandon the five hindrances

the corruptions of mind that weaken

wisdom

and dwell pervading one quarter

of a mind imbued with loving kindness

likewise the second quarter the third

quarter and the fourth

thus above below across and

everywhere

to all as to oneself

it's well pervading the entire world

with the mind imbued of loving kindness

vast exalted measureless without

hostility without ill will

dwell pervading one quarter of the mind

imbued with compassion likewise the

second quarter the third quarter and the

fourth quarter

thus above below across and everywhere

and to all as to oneself

dwell pervading the entire world with a

mind imbued with compassion

vast exalted measureless without

hostility

without ill will dwell pervading one

quarter of a mine

imbued with joy

likewise the second the third and the

fourth

thus above thus above below across

and everywhere and to all as to oneself

dwell pervading the entire world with a

mind imbued with

joy vast exalted measureless without

hostility without ill will

dwell pervading one quarter of the mind

imbued with equanimity

likewise the second quarter the third

and the fourth thus above below across

and everywhere to all as to oneself

pervading to the entire world with with

a mind imbued with equanimity

vast exalted measureless without

hostility without

ill will we two

friends teach the dhamma to our

disciples thus

come friends abandon the five hindrances

and it goes through this whole thing

again

so friends what here

is the distinction the the parity

the difference between the ascetic

gotoma and

us that is regarding the one dhamma

teaching

and the other regarding the one manner

of instruction

and the other then those monks neither

delighted nor

rejected the statement of those

wanderers

without delighting in it without

rejecting it

they rose from their seats and left

thinking

we shall learn the meaning of this

statement

in the presence of the blessed one

then when those monks had walked for

alms in the town and had returned

from their arms round after their meal

they approached the blessed one

having paid homage to him they sat down

at one side and

reported to him the entire discussion

between the wanderers and themselves

the blessed one said monks

when wanderers of other sects speak thus

they should be asked friend how

is the liberation of mind by loving

kindness

developed what does it have

as its distinction its culmination

its fruit and its goal

how is the liberation by mine of

compassion

developed how does it have

what does it have as its distinction its

culmination its fruit

and its goal how is the liberation of

mind by joy

developed what does it have

as distinction called its culmination

its fruit

and its final goal how is the liberation

of mind by

equanimity developed what does it have

as its distinction

its culmination its fruit and its goal

being asked thus those wanderers would

not be able to reply

and further they would meet with

vexation

for what reason because they would not

be

within their domain i do not see any one

monks

in this world with its devas mars and

brahmas

in this generation with its ascetics and

brahmanas

it's devas and humans who could

satisfy the mind with an answer to those

questions

except the tatagata or the disciple of

the tattagata

or one who has heard it from them

and how is the liberation

of mind by loving-kindness developed

what does it have as its distinction

its culmination its fruit and its goal

here monks amongst among develop

a monk develops the enlightenment factor

of

mindfulness accompanied by loving

kindness

a monk develops the enlightenment factor

of investigation of experience

accompanied by

lovingkindness a monk

develops the enlightenment factor of

energy

accompanied by loving kindness a monk

develops the enlightenment factor of joy

accompanied by loving kindness

a monk develops the enlightenment factor

of tranquility accompanied by loving

kindness

a monk develops the enlightenment factor

of collectedness

accompanied by loving kindness

a monk develops the enlightenment factor

of

equanimity accompanied by loving

kindness

based upon seclusion dispassion

cessation and cessation

maturing in release

if he wishes may i

dwell perceiving the repulsive in

the unrepulsive he dwells perceiving the

repulsive therein

if he wishes may i dwell perceiving the

unrepulsive in the repulsive

he dwells perceiving the unrepulsive

therein

if he wishes may i dwell perceiving the

repulsive

in the unrepulsive and in the

repulsive he dwells perceiving the

repulsive therein

if he wishes may i dwell

perceiving the unrepulsive in the

repulsive and in the unrepulsive

he dwells perceiving the unrepulsive

therein

if he wishes

avoiding both the unrepulsive and the

repulsive

may i dwell equanimously

mindful and clearly comprehending

then he dwells therein he quan

equanimously

mindful and clearly comprehending

or else he enters and dwells in the

deliverance of the beautiful

the deliverance of the beautiful is the

fourth jhana

now when we're starting when we're

talking about the repulsive and

unrepulsive

it's being able to look at things with a

balanced mind

and learning how to lovingly accept

the repulsive and the unrepulsive

and all of those combinations thereof

without having aversion arise in your

mind

and this makes me think of the

i think it's the fifth verse of the

dhammapada

that says hatred can never

be overcome by hatred

in this world hatred can only be

overcome by love

now when i'm talking about loving

kindness

i want to change that a little bit

and what i want to say is

aversion can never be overcome by

aversion

aversion can only be overcome

by loving acceptance

okay that helps with

getting the idea of

what we what we repeat every morning and

he beat me he abused me

if you hold even one thought

of anger dissatisfaction

aversion

then that does not lead to a peaceful

happy mind

and that's a hard one to practice

the bodhisattva i told you the story

about when he was a child

and had his hands and feet cut off

he didn't hold any hatred not even one

moment of hatred

he was radiating loving-kindness and

that was

the test for him in that lifetime

or else he enters and dwells in the

deliverance of the beautiful amongst the

liberation of mind by loving kindness

has the beautiful as its culmination

i say for a wise monk

here who has not penetrated to the

superior liberation

i i read that wrongly i guess

amongst the liberation of mind by loving

kindness has the beautiful

of his culmination i say for a wise

mount here

who has not penetrated to the superior

liberation the superior liberation would

be nibana

and how monks is the liberation of mind

by

compassion developed what does it have

as its destination its culmination its

fruit its final goal

here amongst a monk develops

the enlightenment factor of mindfulness

accompanied by compassion and it goes

through all the

enlightenment factors again

based upon seclusion dispassion

cessation maturing and release

if he wishes me i dwell perceiving the

unrepulsive and the repulsive and we go

through that all again

or else with the complete transist

transcendence

of perceptions of gross form

with the passing away of perceptions of

century impingement with

non-attention to perception i don't like

that

two perceptions of diversity

there is you you notice perceptions of

change

you have to be able to notice that

aware that space is infinite

he enters and dwells in the base

of the infinity of space

monks the liberation of mind by

compassion

has the base of infinity of space

as its culmination i say for a wise monk

here who is not

penetrated to the superior liberation

so each each of these different

brahmaviharas when you reach its

culmination and go to the next that's

called

liberation at that point

and how monks is the liberation of mind

by

how by joy developed how

does it what does it have as a

destination it's culmination it's fruit

in its final goal here monk

monks a monk develops the enlightenment

factor of mindfulness accompanied by

joy and we go through all of that and

it's all accompanied by joy now

based upon seclusion dispassion and

cessation

maturing in release

by completely transcending the base of

the infinity of space aware that

consciousness

is infinite he enters and dwells

in the base of the infinity of

consciousness monks the liberation of

mind by

joy has the base of the infinity of

space

as its culmination now this is somewhat

different

than many many people

say because they're following

even mahasi sayadaw wrote a book

on the brahmaviharas

and he said the first three jhanas will

only take you to the third drama

and the the equanimity will take you to

the fourth drama

now he is following the

commentary of the vasudi maga

which an awful lot of people take as

the book of authority

but when we see

here that you practice compassion

and you get to the infinite space

and that's the culmination of that

and you get to joy and the culmination

of that

is infinite consciousness that changes

the whole ballgame

that changes everything about

the way loving-kindness is being taught

and how it is practiced

now you hear me talk all the time about

you have to smile you have to

laugh you need to put loving kindness

into everything that you're doing

when you're practicing according to the

vasuti maga

you have four wishes

that you're supposed to make over and

over and over again

when you are wishing to your spiritual

friend

may you be happy let's see if i can

remember but it's been a lot of years

since i practiced this way

may you be happy may you be free from

suffering may you be free from mental

suffering

may you be well peaceful and happy

okay and those are the four wishes that

they have you repeat over and over again

like it's a mantra

and what happens with a lot of people

especially when they're doing mantra

is they do it like they're memorizing

something with the top part of their

mind and they're thinking about other

things

and that is not doing the meditation

and there's there's no progress in the

meditation when you do when that happens

to you

that is why when i tell you to practice

the loving-kindness meditation

got something in my eye

i tell you you need to make a wish that

is very

sincere and you need to feel

that wish and then put that wish

in your heart that takes it

out of the realm of constant repetition

and you start to progress reasonably

quickly when you're able to do that

so you can see right now that

the the

end results of

each one of the uh

brahma viharas is different than is what

what is being taught right now i mean

even the loving kindness

you you're in the third jhana the

lovingkindness is here

as you start uh

the feeling in your body starts to fade

away

and you go from the third drama into the

fourth channel the feeling of loving

kindness changes you can't feel anything

in your heart anymore

it changes to your mind

now i have to admit

that the practice of

breaking down the barriers like i've

been talking before

is from the vizuti maga

i've never admitted that before actually

maybe we did say it in another 12

breaking down the barriers you uh

you get to the fourth journal and then i

tell you you need to change to another

spiritual friend and another spiritual

friend and another spiritual friend

and then to family members and then to

neutral persons

and then to enemies as many as there are

now the reason that i tell

people to practice this way at the start

is because radiation

radiating loving kindness to the

different directions

is very hard to do

and it takes a while but when you start

making it personal and you start

sincerely wishing your friend

your spiritual friend true happiness

and feeling that happiness in yourself

it's very easy to

get going with your meditation

the first three genres

are actually considered emotional genres

because they have joy in it

and there's there's happiness in it when

you get to the fourth

genre you're considered a

an advanced student

and now it's with equanimity

and there is no more emotion in it

now the first genre is it's uh

described in one of the texts like a bee

that's going towards a flower and he

sees the flower

and he starts hovering around the flower

and he lands on the outside of a petal

that's like being in the first genre

and then he goes into the middle

and that's like being in the second

drama

and then he gets all of the the nectar

and whatever and he comes back and he

starts flying

home that's like being in the third

drama

and when he delivers all of that nectar

that's like being in the fourth jungle

so

it's pretty amazing actually

to

be able to experience

all of the dramas

in a reasonably quick way

uh there

there are a lot of people that believe

that getting into the rupa janus

is really a major feat

it's a major major thing that happens

for you

and in a way it is i mean you're

starting to

progress real well you're starting to

see how dependent origination works more

easily

and you're going deeper into your into

your meditation

but when i was in

asia even the attainment

of the first jhana was considered

a major major thing

and when i let go of the visuti maga and

i started teaching

people by reading the suttas

people were starting to get in the

dramas pretty regularly

and there wasn't that it isn't that big

a deal

the reason that it seems like such a big

deal for

most people is because it's talked about

quite highly in

sutas not like it's an impossible state

to get into

but i know i went to some places in

thailand and they told me if i wanted to

get into a drama it was going to take me

about 15 years

and when i went to sri lanka they told

me

oh they were much better than that it

only takes about 10 years

and i'm used to people getting into the

jhana

at least in the first week of a

meditation retreat

and if they don't don't go any higher

than that i'm wondering what they're

doing in the retreat

because they're not following the

directions closely enough

so you progress reasonably quickly

when you're practicing the kind of

meditation that the buddha

is prescribing and

that extra step of relaxing

is the thing that

makes the difference in the meditation

relaxing of the tension and tightness

is letting go of craving

and when you let go of craving like it

said in natsute last night

the dhamma is immediately effective

and you start to see that pretty quickly

as you practice the six

r's and

you have that relaxed step in there

your mind every time you use that

relaxed step

becomes pure there's

no craving there's no clinging

there's only this mind that's alert

there's only this mind that is

very agile it's very quick

and it is pure and you bring

that little bit of purity back to your

object to meditation

as you do that over and over again

you start having a more

and more uplifted mind that's more alert

and you'll begin to sit with your object

of meditation for a longer period of

time

and the distraction doesn't last

for near as long as it did

and you will be able to experience a

drama

as you do this over and over and over

again

i have to say that the

more you practice the six r's

and staying with your object to

meditation with your daily activities

the faster your progress becomes

your daily activities are incredibly

important i've had some people that

they were zooming right along with their

meditation

and all of a sudden they just stopped

and i start questioning i say what are

you doing differently than you were

why are you slowing down now

the answer always comes back because

you're getting distracted with some kind

of thing during your daily activity

now the thing with the practice that i'm

showing you

is it's not just for the retreat

if you want to progress when you go home

you need to practice your

six hours with your daily activities

as much as possible that means smiling

and being happy doesn't it

and the more you can smile and be happy

and relax that tension

and tightness you sit down and do your

meditation and you can

zoom right along in your meditation even

without being in a retreat

i have students that do that they write

me an email every now and then and they

start talking about where they are

and i'm going oh look at that

they've gone from this drowning to that

toronto

because they were serious about the

practice about

doing the practice all the time

and the more you can

recognize that tension and tightness

that arises in your head

and let it go and radiate some loving

kindness and smiles to people

the easier your sitting becomes the less

distraction you have

the more openness it changes your

personality

so that you don't you're not so tight

and tense

you start becoming more accepting of

situations

that before would have driven you crazy

and i bring this up again as when we

were coming across the country we

stopped at a

at a place along one of the toll roads

to get some coffee

and when we came out i started looking

at the truck in the parking lot and i

guess the closer i got i said somebody

ran into the truck

and we got there and took a look at it

and sure enough somebody

they basically what they did i think was

they parked too close

and they tried to turn and get out and

they wound up scraping the whole side of

the truck

and we looked at each other and i said

well okay and got in the truck and said

let's go

now if that would have happened i know

for a fact if that would have happened

with kma

a few years ago there would have been an

emotional

volcano and a

continual complaining

about how can

anybody do this

but now that doesn't happen for her

she looks at it i look at it yeah can i

drive the car without hurting anything

look underneath yeah okay let's go it

was like

what is essential is essential what is

unessential

is unessential it's there we can still

drive it

get in the car and go

immediate comprehension yeah of what is

really

hurting here and how in which way it is

inhibiting your next step and

and things like that well it didn't

inhibit anything

it just it just said oh okay we

will have to fix it when we get home

okay

you see you see it for what it is and

nothing more in that said

yeah right and then we

share in experience yeah

being in

what he said stayed

on one of those things we wanted to have

holidays

and so we are doing that i forgot

was it

puerto rico puerto rico yes it's kind of

an advanced state

so uh here we think we wanted to see

this

closer rainforest closer take a kind of

a train

where they were loading or carrying

corpses

in with i thought it was

a first glance i looked at it we stand

in

line for the ticket

there's someone on a stretcher with

sunglasses and then i look again

and it was a course so they let go

then the next lord were chickens

and bisections and so on

and this was only one class which would

be would be below

third class so we

bought this train and it's a wonderful

accomplished quickly

kind of makes french my husband makes

friendship with a young man

and it is getting a little more darker

and a little rainy until the

train kind of felt like it has

stations with two or three bananas

trees was not really a city

much so i

and i go to

use the bathroom there and

my husband said i said darling here is

my hand but you know there are all our

papers in it and we were

five days and where do we go

and i come back and i

see suddenly him jumping up and saying

and i said you know that was your friend

who run runs away now with my handbag

well the thing that the the kind of plan

is here as i go i said darling

be careful i leave the hand back next to

you

how can you say that of course do

something like that so

he is sitting here here is an

open window outside is the kind of

the fading light of the day little rays

rain and a few leaves

trees it's a station and he

went out said is this this young man

and comes back as a train goes on

and grabs the handbag and runs with it

and i was so perplexed and i still hear

myself

may he be blessed with that that's all i

said

or may he use it right for you or

something like that

i had no reaction my

my husband couldn't find any words for

it because

i had reminded him that that is my

handbag

where we we both spoke no words that

evening

and we couldn't continue our journey

we had no no checks and nothing huh

so when we just

did the next step booked in and

waited till some we got the next train

back

and went through in the city there i

don't know forgot the

main setting and we

he could not kind of digest

yes and we came home after two days

and never was a word spoken about it

and i still see him running and feel

very good about it

that i did not have this this attachment

to it but it wasn't you know that i am

always

detached but seeing i could do nothing

and say it's the best thing then to

stand where you are and be grateful it

could be worse

yeah oh yeah and that had

cut deeply into me so it's more than

it's still there when i see something is

missing and i will

say a few things but then i realized

my life continues it is not depending on

that

and to me that that one who has taken

it be happy and not have

and maybe something may happen in him

it isn't feeling really good when you

begin to look

at such actions of yourself

so

and meta can help in that you turn it

around

oh yes yeah yeah and it it

it keeps us so so much

better on the past and there comes

certain

inner joy it's it's not a joy

but it is a fine

energy where you kind of

feel happy inside deeply that you are

not perturbed about it

yeah and that is a marvelous thing

that's contentment what do you say the

contentment

oh yeah well yeah it is not really

it's a really good example of what

happens with the meta in your life

with what happens in life yes something

something similar i was not even

um in in the dharma that

consciously but i always had a little

bit

great capacity forgive my sister who was

stealing from me the

little things out of my hand back and i

knew if i

confront her she will not be will deny

and i didn't like that so i would just

um

comfortably cleverly say sister darling

i lost this isn't list this or that

and if you find it you put it back in my

my drawer and all bring it to me

and you know a new shared stolen it and

it would go back because somehow i did

it so that she was not offended

that is a very very wonderful way

so meta is a powerful

non-reaction the non-interference

in that moment and the conscious level

is kind of opening up the next step

maybe the next jana

for quiet and

it's just magic

there's there's a lot of magic when you

hold meta

in your mind yeah right and the way you

describe it or

have described it it reminded me that i

had the question

isn't that then maybe that fabricy and

mindfulness that observes and perceives

in that expanded way

the meta and not in that what you

placed or mentioned in the just

concentration

really isn't that that faculty which

we find in mindfulness

clear as clear comprehension it helps

very much

with the clear comprehension yes yes it

does yes

can you quickly repeat these four

clear comprehensions which belong to

that

part which is part of mindfulness

i'm not sure i guess it is that yeah

i know what foreign

there's four pieces that are in the

mindfulness section that talked about

four

ways of comprehending but it's it's yes

but anyway it is

i don't remember seeing it in the

sutures

no no i i i i can

tell you what full mindful our full

awareness is

that i know that where it is in the

sutures

but i don't remember clear comprehension

in the sutures

i made it without mentioning you didn't

mention

it now and you talked about expansive

mindfulness yeah and not concentration

being the key word

yes yeah

when

is it suitable that moment

is it it doesn't have any practical

aspect

the action is it's

practical or suited and suitable

in alignment with your practice

and is it in the is it um

benefiting or you practice the

continuation of the dharma

practice and the last is this kind of

anata thing the empty

emptiness the purity of

everything of of matter

the pure the purity of center

you know what is practically to be

matter in matter

and blessing others and it is suitable

kind of in fits into your you practice

and it benefits and it helps come the

continuation of the practice

carrying it maintaining it because it's

you talked about it you actually had all

four stages

remember and the last is it is

the last using the source jhana

that that purity and subtlety yeah

where it isn't just the words spoken

right

that's the one that i and i don't know

why so many people

are so enthralled

with repeating four sentences over and

over again

oh although i did it at one time i did

it for a few months

well this is probably they are taking

care in on your their business of mind

it is quiet and well maybe not

genuinely but it is sad it cannot go to

the bahamas and have a

imaginary holiday when you say may i be

happy may my father be happy my brother

and so on

you have a job to do here

so it might be in alignment with one of

those comprehensions you know

it is um

when i was taking care of lucille and

honda right before he died

um who died uclanda

oh yeah um

he asked me to teach him loving kindness

meditation

he had been practicing for years loving

kindness meditation to the seven

different kinds of

things you know he

he blessed this place he blessed every

place he was i think

well i i felt very honest oh yeah at

that time

when i made my my weekend house

medication center you see

yeah and he had such a very painful yes

ah but he wasn't

he wasn't there he wasn't in his body a

lot of that time

really he actually came and visited when

i was in missouri

he came to see what we were doing in

missouri

i have a friend that is very uh

sensitive and can

see see beings and that sort of thing

and he

he said who's who's that monk over there

and i asked him to describe it a minute

with us

yeah that was pretty amazing

and that was that was a few weeks before

he died

he didn't when he died he didn't die

from the tumor he died from all the

medicine they gave him for all the other

stuff

really yeah

interesting they they did an

mri on on his on his head

this was about two months

after he had the operation and he had no

term

tumor in his head at all but his his

body was in such weak shape

that his kidneys were going bad and a

different

different things and they couldn't do

anything with it

it's really a shame

anyway getting back to this

and what monks is the liberation of mind

by

equine or how is equine

liberation of mind by equanimity

developed

what does it have as its destination its

culmination its fruit

its final goal

here monks a monk develops the

enlightenment factors

accompanied by equanimity

based upon seclusion dispassion

cessation

mentoring and release

by completely transcending the base

of the infinity of consciousness aware

that there

is nothing he enters upon and dwells in

the base

a base of nothingness

the liberation of mind by equanimity

has the base of nothingness as its

culmination

i say for the wise monk here

who has not penetrated to the superior

liberation

so that's this is a short suta actually

and i have planned something else so

don't worry but

this gives you the idea of

uh the the difference in the depth

of practice

between what the visual maga is teaching

and what the suttas are actually saying

and it was a complete shock to me to run

across this

when i saw it i couldn't believe it

because i had been believing

what the what i had been taught

by a lot of teachers

and then i saw that this goes a lot

deeper and i when i

found this out i sent uh emails to

joseph goldstein

and and sharon salberg and

jack cornfield and nobody re

returned any

anything that i sent to them they didn't

they didn't acknowledge that there was

any difference in their practice and

they didn't change the practice at all

even to this day people are still

practicing the way of the visiting

mother

have you read her book she she speaks up

as sharon's book yeah

that's i haven't read it but i i know i

i have trouble reading it i have trouble

reading it really

it has great results everywhere yeah

i understand

but the the thing is

there should have been an

acknowledgement of that

and uh some kind of communication but

there wasn't

and that's that

but since then i have i have shown this

to other teachers

and they really like that and now

they're starting to teach

more in uh in alignment with the suitors

at least

what number was that listening

54

uh brackets four accompanied by 11

kindness

in the bojanga and the bojanga's family

ah

here's something that's interesting

on one occasion monks when when the mind

becomes sluggish

it is timely to develop the

enlightenment factor

of investigation of experience

the enlightenment factor of energy and

the enlightenment factor of

joy for what reason because mind is

sluggish

it is easy to arouse it with those

things

suppose a man wants to make a small

fire flare up he throws dry grass

dry cow dung dry timber into it

and blows on it and does not scatter

soil over it

would he be able to make the small fire

flare up

yes venerable serve so too monks on

occasion when mind becomes sluggish it

is timely to develop the enlightenment

factor

of investigation of experience

enlightenment factor of energy and

enlightenment factor of

joy for what reason

because the mind is sluggish monks

and it is easy to arouse those things

on an occasion a monk when mind becomes

excited

it is untimely to develop the

enlightenment factor

of investigation

in enlightenment factor of energy and

the enlightenment factor

of joy for what reason because the mind

is excited monks

it is difficult to calm it down with

those

those things suppose monk

a man wants to extinguish a great

bonfire and he throws dry grass dried

cow dung and dry timber into it

blows on it and does not scatter

soil over it would he be able to

extinguish that great bonfire

no he wouldn't so

uh when mind becomes excited it is

timely to develop the enlightenment

factor of

tranquility the enlightenment factor

of collectedness the enlightenment

factor of equanimity

for what reason because mind is excited

that means restless

and it's easy to calm it down with those

things

suppose a man wants to extinguish a

great bonfire and he throws wet grass

wet cow dung and wet timber onto it

sprays it with water and scatter soil

over it

would he be able to extinguish that

great bonfire

it says yes sir and i say possibly the

way he's describing it

so too much on an occasion when mind

becomes excited

it is timely to develop the

enlightenment factor of tranquility the

enlightenment factor of

collectedness and the enlightenment

factor of equilibrium

for what reason because the mind is

excited

and it's easy to calm it down with those

things

isn't that something just like i was

saying

amazing you just threw a wrench in my

drawing now it's not really a seesaw

like that on

joy it's a it's a seesaw between

joy and tranquility that's where the

and mindfulness sort of steers it

so i have to change it

not really

now this is something that is very

interesting

and it kind of goes against a lot of

teachings the way that they're presented

and and so what he monks i will teach

you the wrong way

and the right way listen to that

and attend closely i will speak yes

venerable sir those monks replied the

blessed one said

this and what monks is the wrong way

with ignorance as conditioned volitional

formations come to be

with formations as conditioned

consciousness

and it goes through the entire twelve

lengths of dependent origination

such is the origin of this whole mass of

suffering

this monks is called the wrong way

so what we're basically saying is

that people that just talk about

suffering

they're not teaching the way the buddha

recommended

and an awful lot of people that the

first time they are second time they

hear a discourse

or a dhamma talk by somebody and they're

just talking about suffering they say

i don't want any of this i already know

what suffering is

i don't want to

get overly

involved and it's pessimistic and that's

why

a lot of people call buddhism a

pessimistic religion

but if we teach the way the buddha said

and what monks is the right way with the

remainderless fading away and cessation

of

ignorance comes cessation of formations

with the cessation of formation

satisfaction of

consciousness

such is the cessation of this whole

mass of suffering this

monks is called the right way

almost every discourse that i give i

very seldom talk about suffering but i

very often talk about

the cessation of suffering

and that

changes the entire perspective of

the way

things can be taught

i have a friend that

teaches in meditation and somebody brand

new

comes to him and wants to learn how to

meditate

and after they they meditate

then he starts out by

saying the buddha taught suffering

and he doesn't say anything else

and it's really shocking to

a lot of people we don't want to hear

about suffering we want to hear about

the cessation of the suffering

we want to hear how to have a balanced

mind

unpleasant things arise

so

now this is this is another another part

of a suta

and this tells some very important facts

that

kind of get glossed over

monks before my enlightenment while i

was still a bodhisattva

not yet fully enlightened it occurred to

me

alas this world has fallen into trouble

it is it in that it is born

ages and dies it passes away and is

reborn

yet it does not understand the escape

from the suffering

headed by aging and death

when will an escape be discerned

from this suffering he headed by aging

and death then monks

it occurred to me when what exists

does aging and death come to be

by what is aging and death conditioned

then monks through careful attention

there took place in me a breakthrough in

wisdom

when there is birth aging and death

come to be aging and death have

birth as its condition

then monks it occurred to me when what

exists

does birth come to be

by what is birth conditioned

then monks through careful attention

there took place in me

a breakthrough by wisdom

when there is habitual tendency birth

comes to be

with birth as as habitual

birth has habitual tendency as its

condition

and this goes through all of the 12

links of the dependent origination

and then it talks about the cessation

when monks had occurred to me

when what does not exist does aging

and and death not come to be with the

cessation of

what is the cessation of aging and death

come

how does it come about that monks

through careful attention there took

place in me

a breakthrough by wisdom when there

is no birth aging and death does not

come to be

with the cessation of birth comes the

cessation of aging and death

and then it goes through all of the 12

links

but the point of this is how

he was investigating and how he was

looking while he was still a bodhisattva

and he knew all of the 12 lengths of

dependent origination they didn't

all of a sudden just pop up in his mind

on the night that he became enlightened

he worked very hard to see this

and that means that

you know he he was probably one of the

most advanced meditators in the world

at that time and he was taking

his keen attention and putting it on the

dependent origination

and seeing how all of the process worked

but it took his backing up

and putting that extra step of relax

into his meditation before he was able

to realize that

and realize that means seeing the four

noble truths

and dependent origination as they truly

are

so i

actually had had some monks tell me i

didn't know what i was talking about

when i said that the buddha

discovered dependent origination while

he was still a bodhisattva

and i've since got the book out and

showed up

but what an incredibly brilliant mind

he had

there's just no way around it it's it's

so brilliant to be able to see the four

noble truths

in each one of the links of dependent

origination

you read a little bit here in this

magazine or inquiring my

great imputation of scientists

by by teachers and discussing the

science

of the scientific

method i mean science is a method it's

new

and fits into different fields and that

has to be repeatable that's the thing

that's

that's really observed and then

the interference to infiltrate to get

the results of

it and so what that's what we are doing

the former

the constant attentiveness

and seeing what arises in it

like meta that atmosphere

and it is a natural

development it is not something really

to be cultivated

or to kind of investigate it and opening

up to that what is there

yeah and then he gives us this kind of

fantastic the teaching is only how to

get there too

this is a science of mind actually it is

a science of mine

and i know a lot of people that object

to that

object to saying that but it is so

precise and so

exact and repeatable not by

just one other person but by many

other persons yes right

so he says buddhism is pure science

and that's why when it was talks which

is

i thought it was a fascinating term yeah

you see science is

not to think in itself i think it is a

method

science is the investigation actually

the observation and the influence from

it

if you can put it into dentistry and

medicaid

medicine psychology

business too you can investigate

the business there is a course going on

in santa fe

right now can big business

come from from

from her from a heart

or can can get it

i don't know exactly but can big

business

relate to to to the mind

or to the ethics that is all in it so

we're investigating yeah

in the time of the buddha the problem

with big business

is it's run on greed

and overlooking the essex

yeah or not having any assets yeah

isn't it

corruption and exploitation

well yeah but what seems that way but

what the buddha was doing was taking

the five noble truths i'm using them as

five elbows i'm sorry four no

i just added another one in honor of

ruth you know

okay the four noble truths and using

them as

investigative questions what is this

what is the cause of it what is the

cessation of it what is the path to the

cessation of it

and applying it to cognitive psychology

and the whole 12 links is the line of

cognition and so when you go to

cognitive psychology you see how

everything actually works so i mean

if the four noble truths are absolutely

brilliant

when it's very systematic yeah

and you see him using it again and again

and again in the sutures

when he set up his discourses he used

three or four of the noble truths every

single time in their frame

for instance

monks to those ascetics and brahmanas

who do not understand these things

the origin of these things the cessation

of these things and the way leading to

the cessation of these things

that is the four noble truths

what are those things that they don't

understand

whose origin they don't understand whose

cessation they don't understand

and the way leading to the cessation

that they don't understand they don't

understand aging and death

that's the first noble truth the

origin the cessation and way leading to

the sensation

and it's that way with every link

i didn't get that it is that way with

every link

of dependent origination is the origin

of it

what is it what what is it it would be

birth or habitual tendency or clinging

or craving

and then it's origin and cessation

and way leading to its cessation

yes that's i was going to ask this

question a little bit later and it's

does that mean that it's kind of

interesting you can have a dependent

origination

and then you have craving in each

in between each link correct yes

and so you have craving is based upon

something else

as you've said so that means that

there's a whole nother dependent

origination link

attached to that is that correct does

that make sense

no how does it say what you're saying so

if

if there's every link has craving in it

craving has as a as a there's something

that's dependent upon

there's a whole nother dependency upon

craving right

so what what what it's depending on is

the link before it

yeah and then when you finally let go

of ignorance there is no before it

okay so there is no there is no craving

at all the big one is when he says the

remainder was

fading away and cessation of

ignorance that's a big one yeah

you know because you can get rid of it

for tomorrow but

it can't have any remainder at all and

it's the total sensation of it

you're going for

so

the more we

for everybody that's doing the practice

right now i think i've recommended for

everybody that they focus more with

tranquil tranquil feeling

and work with the tranquility

and and the equanimity

in your practice as much as you can

bring up that wish

and put it in your

objective meditation your object

of meditation

and you will see

a marked improvement

now one of the things that i was talking

about with

almost everybody today was

the oopakaleesas and one one

in particular of the kalasas

is the

kalasa of longing

now if you have a longing for something

to be a particular way

what it does is it takes you out of the

present moment

and you're trying to lean into the next

present moment

and what that does is it

your energy is not completely imbalanced

and this is subtle stuff this is not

big knock your socks off stuff this is

just a little tiny adjustment

letting go of all longing

and developing that

beginner's mind with your practice

will

help very much so that

you're not putting that little extra

lean into your your meditation

developing that mind that has

no idea what's going to happen next and

it's okay not to know

means that you have let go of that

longing

the objects for the meditation or do you

leave it up too

well i give everybody the

loving-kindness meditation

to start with and then they progress

just like it says in the suta that i was

reading they

they could progress into the arab

pajamas and

and go through the the

uh

the different

stages of the brahmaviharas and it's a

natural process that

that occurs with that and all these

particular

objects um

available in the teaching for

the second child or the third or the

fourth

oh it's the same same object of

meditation

yeah it is but somewhere

if you go into into a jhana

into you from one of the genres into the

next

there is a progressiveness and calmness

and collectedness

well yeah there's different tracks for

it

could it be the breath

i teach the breath and i think i and i

teach

loving kindness those are the two

meditations that i teach

and they uh you

you get the experience of jhana is very

similar

in both of those until you get into the

arupa genre

once you get into the elrupajanas the

experience is a little bit similar or a

little bit

dissimilar with the breath than the

brahmaviharas because the feeling

changes that's right with the with the

brahma

viharas and the feeling stays pretty

much the same

with the the breath

there's different things that happen in

each one of the different kinds

but there's not that subtle change of

feeling

is that debate and i could really refer

all the sensations

well it's vaden but it's

uh the feeling of compassion is

different than the feeling of joy is

different than the feeling of equanimity

but when you're when you're practicing

the the

breath it doesn't get involved in the

feeling like that

and you more or less you stay with the

breath even in your

arupa janus to the seventh jhana

yes and once you get

into the realm of nothingness

uh when you

finally get into neither perception or

non-perception you don't

you don't feel breath at all then it's

hard to tell

whether you're in that state or not it's

hard to see

mind at all by that time

everybody that's practicing the six r's

the recognize release relax

re-smile return repeat

when they get to that state

then their mind is it's on automatic

any kind of little

movement or disturbance at all from

complete peace mind sees that

and then 6r is that and and then it's

very deep peace again

it said somewhere

that moment where the observing

the aussie observer emerges

into the conflict

you know that was very much stressed by

some teachers

observance you know observe this one

you know that's almost too abstract for

me to really understand i don't quite

know how to answer that

there is a separation as long you have

as wrong so what is said

as long as one has this

disposition of i am observing

i have an object

well but it's it's mind's eye when you

let go of the craving there is no

i

well i think i mean my question is for

that what you just mentioned

the wisdom eye yeah where there is not

the separated

entity observing the object

so then there is maybe a making

and a special atmosphere of

depths but special depths of the

calmness of the equanimity and of the

blessedness of

matter

it would be beyond beyond the meta

yes and it would be beyond the realm

of nothingness and i think the

the the realm of neither perception or

non-perception would be about the

closest

that i i think that you could get to

that

and that's still not the end of the road

no no okay but

there there does come when you're in

that

in that space and you come out of

that and you reflect on what happened

while you were

in neither perception or non-perception

your mind has extraordinary

clarity of observation

was that in mind that you just mentioned

identity

with the knowing faculty which arises

somewhere

understanding what which you just

noticed

is an enormous clarity

and has a wisdom mind or

anything it has very very strong wisdom

yes well it has a clarity yes oh yes

and it is more than i observing and

being observed

because there is

there is the start of

each one or one of the links of

dependent origination

and as soon as that is seen by that

clarity

there is the relaxing and and letting go

and that's all happening

automatically it's not a

it's not an effort to do it

automatically it's maybe also

equally in this case of naturally

economic effect you know

from that what i am offering ah

yeah yeah yeah yeah

when you say automatically then that

means it happens

in progressiveness very without your

doing

without doing directing it

so then that is opening up to what you

mentioned

as emptiness yeah what is that emptiness

it's empty of a belief in itself of

life it's a of a belief in itself

that's right yeah and

the interference of it right

there's only that pure mind

does that know itself or of course it's

no longer does it

no it's not there's

there's knowing but there's no self

there

so it knows itself that consciousness

it knows it knows yeah so we are

in knowing without noah

yeah pretty much yeah

it's really scientific isn't it it's not

a religion and to believe

that right and it's really freeing yeah

could i say can you get i can i i i see

myself crying in some moments

out of gratefulness that this is

possible

yeah for us it's not just there

like it's all right

enlightenment factor of joy or is that

gross

well you know all of the enlightenment

factors have to be in perfect balance

in order for for uh

mind to be completely awake so it's a

certain wholeness in that

emptiness yes

yeah and it's not that i

am going to balance something no it's

just mind will balance itself

when when everything is right

and that's what i was what i was

starting to get at with the

with the longing with the uber classes

the imperfections

about how even a slight

little

wish that something was different other

than it is

or making a determination

for something to happen in a particular

way

uh that causes mine to have too much

energy

in it and that causes

the uh

the hindrances to arise

so this it's

making if you make a determination

make it very simple that your mind can

be

very clear that your mind can be

accepting

that your mind can be very tranquil

not uh

may i get into this genre or that job

so you you make the the determination

of your mind not having any longing in

it

not having any whatever

you know and and then you start your

practice

and if that longing starts to come up

you'll be able to recognize it for what

it is

and let it go very easily

but that also goes automatically because

there is no self then

is it well depending on the stage of the

meditation yeah

yeah that's right it does feel good

if you qualify the wishes you're talking

about with some

phrase like to the extent possible i no

don't put that on it okay because

if that has longing on it doesn't it

see the the subtleness of longing is

really it blows my mind

i never really even considered it until

i ran across the suta but there's

there's this extra little bit of energy

of wanting things or wanting to control

things

or wanting things to be

and with that little bit of extra energy

your mind never really

settles down

there is a bumper sticker going around

and it is saying since i give up hope i

feel so much better

it is a very satisfying experience

but it is what we are talking is the

kind of progressiveness

of that recognition

in everything you see the down light

that's wonderful isn't it

yes but there is a truth

on the level of daily life

if you have attached yourself to hope

but you don't see anything anymore it's

the tension coming in and you are kind

of

hoping it will be all right let's hope

it it gets

good you see it's really dangerous it is

a

for yourself it lets us miss

a lot in the process

she has another bumper sticker hope is

dangerous

give it up

entertainment

yes

poor david had a question 30 minutes ago

you see that it's wonderful actually

when you recognize it that is already

a dharma you see there yes and you can

see what is

what is behind hope and what all

and then what i said is dangerous huh

it's all

i mean everything understands itself

then so to speak

and you see the ignorance of people oh

yeah

and then you see how do you see how they

ignore so many things it's just uh

phenomenal almost yes

so david i'm with you

you partially talked about it i'm trying

to pinpoint the difference between

a wholesome desire to progress and a

warning to progress

the wholesome desire is

pointing your mind in the direction you

want it to go

like making a determination to

have have peace and quiet and peace and

calm

longing is i

want something

see the wholesome desire doesn't have

any i in it

but the longing does have that

that little tiny attachment to it

it's a definite go you know

and all effort goes in that thing then i

think also the longing has

the quality of judging the present

moment

in comparison to what is desired yes

and so the craving kicks in there

at a very subtle level and it is that

evaluation of the present moment because

it's

not what is desired or it's something

else

and so you have the cycle starting there

at that moment over and over and over

again

yeah and that that's what causes you to

lean

out of the present moment just a little

tight

a little taste instead of just

being in the present moment

that's that's the subtleties of uh

all of our attachments is

that they they keep on making us lean a

little bit out of the present moment

so what's your determination

i want to be in the present moment

that also can be very misunderstood

and justified yeah of course it's all

dangerous

it can be but it doesn't have to be

that's the one

but that's why we practice i see yeah

because

it's more i become aware

it's not really so strange this dharma

it we are working with very ordinary

stuff

with hope and with desire

you know and then in the dharma it

becomes

the for the kind of force

to where it clarifies itself

why we are using and where is he

the ignorance it's not understanding the

words we are losing

automatically we go on

yeah and that is you know i think

part of inside yeah or a light

in the mind something as it's pretty

destroyed

yeah and that's why effort's so

important

and the right effort is the six hours

right

is a determination like an effort

because

to me the whole determination thing gets

into a very much of like a forcing

and i know in thailand when you do a

determination

and you don't fulfill it then there's

like karmic consequences

and they're very like if you're

determined to sit all night they've been

like

if you don't fulfill it that has a very

negative

karmic effect if you could just say

something on that because there's quite

a lot of people that say that

you know when you make the determination

and don't follow through with it

you know you're really that's why i said

you have to be careful with your

determinations

and when you make a determination

for your meditation you can't make a

determination

that i'm gonna sit in jhana you make a

determination

that mine will be calm and clear

you see the difference okay now what

they're talking about in

in thailand is very

attached kind of determination

and they're trying

one of the things of my experience in

thailand

was this one monk

he said the same thing over and over

again every day

eat less sleep less meditate more

sleep less meditate more

because he was working with tai and they

like to eat a lot and they like to sleep

but when a westerner came there

to this this particular center he took

it to heart

and he lost in a short period of time he

lost like 75 pounds

and he was like a skeleton and he was

trying to sit

uh with three or four hours sleep a

night

and his practice was

not good because he was following that

advice

that was really meant for

the ties and not for him

and it's kind of funny what happened to

him he was he lost

so much weight and he was being so

hungry all the time that he was

having dreams of fat women

filling their mouth up with food

ran across him like that and he's he's a

friend that i

had in australia and i saw

what he was doing i said it's time

to maybe go to

someplace else and gain your strength

back

you need to start eating again and you

need to let go of the meditation

and i wound up talking into going to

burma with me

so

anyway the subtleties of the

making and determination there's

there's the wishful thinking hopeful

kind of determination

and there's the just the simple

pointing your mind towards having more

clarity

it's like a resolve versus the second

determination

well even even when you're teaching us

like

mastering on the us you're teaching us

to

not say that i'm gonna sit

in the fourth jonah for an hour you

don't do that you say i'm gonna sit no

i'll sit no no higher than the fourth

child

and then you don't get trapped by that

right

yeah yeah

would you say a proper determination is

i'm going to sit for two hours

no i'm going to sit for no more than two

hours

well but

a proper a proper determination

would be

i'm going to lovingly accept whatever

arises

for the next two hours

that's a good one

oh you see the difference

yeah i have to think about it so because

a lot of times

i make that determination before i sit

i'm going to sit

i'm not going to get out until the bell

rings or whatever

you're suggesting not to do that right

you notice that everybody here sits for

different lengths of time

i don't i i

don't live my life by a bill

and i don't expect anybody else to

sit for at least 30 minutes and when

your sitting is good sit longer

if your sitting is not good don't stop

before 30 minutes

okay so you can you can

be sitting and it seems like you've been

sitting for an hour and you look at the

clock and you've been sitting five

minutes

well you still got 25 minutes to go i

don't care

but uh there's an awful lot of

unrealistic kinds of

determinations that you can make

and then if you don't fulfill that you

feel

guilty and you feel

like you you're not doing something

right

but every sitting is a different kind of

experience

and some sittings can be 45 minutes and

some sittings can be four hours

but to do it in a natural way

when it's appropriate and it feels right

to continue sitting

that's when your best meditation occurs

now i i told you the story at the

beginning of the retreat i went to

i went to burma to one particular

teacher

and the first day i went to the

interview he said how long did you sit

and i said i sat for an hour i walked

for an hour that's standard

and he said why don't you sit longer and

i said okay

came back in how long did you sit

sat for two hours walk for an hour good

why don't you sit longer

okay came back in

next day how long did you sit

three hours walk for an hour

difficult killer a lot of pain

don't want to do that anymore good

why don't you sit longer

so i went in the next day

how long did you sit four hours walk for

an hour

never want to do that again did you move

yeah i moved all over the place it was

painful

it's hard to do well don't move

so i came in the next day and i had

tears running down my

my cheeks because of the intense pain

i wasn't crying it was just my ears it's

like you hit your head and your ears

your eyes uh water

and he said how long did you sit four

hours

did you move no and

that's the worst experience of my life

and said

good why don't you sit longer and i said

no

now eventually i did start sitting

longer

i was sitting six hours seven hours

eight hours

and then i would get up from the

meditation and i would walk

maybe three steps and go why did i break

that sitting

and i would sit down and i'd sit for

another two or three hours

but what was the advantage of doing that

well one of the side effects of it is i

have

blood clots in my legs now

and i got to understand pain

pretty well because it's really painful

to sit that long

i don't see that as a good thing i don't

see that

as good meditation to force your

meditation

i see good meditation as being natural

and when your meditation is good

continue sitting don't break it

when you feel like breaking your sitting

after 30 minutes then

break your city but keep your meditation

going

that's the key just because you don't

sit

anymore doesn't mean that you don't keep

it going

and all the way out to where you're

gonna do your walking meditation

or whatever daily activities you do

keep your meditation going

the more consistent you can keep your

meditation

the better your progress becomes it's

that simple

yeah during the day the daily activities

uh for example if you're eating uh

is the object of meditation at that

point

the eating or is it always the spiritual

friend

the mental i don't care what you're

doing

you can smile

you can send that smile to your friend

this is for the retreat this is not for

your everyday life right now

we'll talk about that as we get closer

to the end of the week

but to let your mind ho-hum around

and think about this and think about

that and i'll

plan a little bit of this and do um what

am i going to do when i get off retreat

you know you're hurting yourself

this is a time to stay with your object

of meditation every time you notice that

your mind has gone to something else

then gently let it go

relax and smile and return to your

object of meditation

now you have to have an object of

meditation

that's your home base you always have to

go home

okay

so

that's your samaritan

and so many ones who suffering free and

may all beings find relief and all

things share this mirror that they give

us acquired

for the acquisition of all kinds of

happiness

may be since inhabiting space and earth

the deaths and markets of many powers

share the spirit of ours they live long

protect the buddhist dispensation

sadness

you