From: https://youtube.com/watch?v=tfC-tBFdwq0

Context: Throughout this transcript, Bhante Vimalaramsi is the speaker unless otherwise indicated.

that is craving for sensual pleasures

craving for being and craving for non

being this is called the origin of

identity by the blessed one lady

cessation of identity cessation of

identity is said what is called the

cessation of identity by the blessed one

Frank Osaka it is the remainder is

fading away and cessation the giving up

relinquishing let ego and rejecting of

that same craving what does that mean

they practiced 606 ours although they

didn't call it that then they practice

right effort that's how you get rid of

crazy so there is seeing an unwholesome

state letting go of that unwholesome

state and relaxing smiling and bringing

up that wholesome state and keeping that

wholesome state going excuse me got some

cut

this is called the cessation of identity

by the Blessed One lady the way leading

to the cessation of identity the way

leading to the cessation of identity is

that

it's got a tickle with it this time what

is called the way leading to the

cessation of identity by the Blessed One

friend visakha it is just this naval

Noble Eightfold Path now when we start

talking about the Eightfold Path it's

right view righted right thought right

speech right action Right Livelihood and

so on always with right the poly word

for right is sama but there's other

definitions of sama two and one of them

can be harmonious so I pick harmonious

because if it's right then there's wrong

and that everything is black and white

but as we know in life not everything is

black and white their shades of grey so

when we call harmonious when you're in

harmony with what you're doing

everything flows along very easily

there's there's no effort so I use and I

tend to change all of the Eightfold Path

a little bit instead of calling it right

view I call it harmonious perspective

you're harmonious perspective is the

perspective of everything that arises

is part of an impersonal process when

you're out of harmony with your

perspective that means that you're

taking whatever arises personally and

that causes your mind to get tight and

you start coming up with an awful lot

more clean stories opinions concepts

ideas and identifying with all of those

as yours when anger arises whose anger

is I met I don't like this I don't want

it to be that way when you practice

smiling and develop a sense of humor

about yourself then you can laugh at

being caught by the anger and it goes

from being I met and I don't like it too

it's only anger and it's very easy to

let it go that's why this is a

harmonious perspective because it keeps

harmony with everything around you and

in you now the next of the Eightfold

Path is called right thought I call it

harmonious imaging you hold an image of

the way you want things to be you hold

an image with your thoughts you holdin

you hold images of the way you think the

world is around you for instance I have

a friend back in Missouri she is always

broke and she holds the idea that

could never get any money she's holding

that image in her mind that's not a

harmonious image because there is the I

am that attached to it the harmonious

image would be uplifting it would have a

lot of positivity so the more you hold

these positive images of what's

happening in the present moment the

easier the present moment is to be in

you're not leaning out of the present

moment you're accepting the present

moment as it is in your holding a

positive image you get caught in a

traffic jam I hate being in a traffic

jam see what kind of image that is being

in a traffic jam is good or bad

depending on your perspective right if

you look at being in a traffic jam as an

opportunity to radiate loving kindness

to other people around you then it's not

a bad thing at all right it's a very

good thing

the thing with the image is we have the

choice to make with what we do with our

mind in the present moment we can fall

back in our old habitual ways of acting

like you always act when you get caught

in a traffic jam BRR I hate this traffic

my dad no I wonder what the problem is

why can't we be moving those kind of

images that you're holding don't lead to

your happiness and well-being or the

happiness of other people around you

those kind of images that you're holding

lead to your suffering and lead to

suffering in the future because you

develop that habit every time you get in

a traffic jam it's going to happen in

the same way so you have the choice to

make either act and react the way you

always act when you get caught in a

traffic jam or not you can respond by

seeing the dislike start to arise and

six are it and essentially already does

it have a smile in your mind you might

as well put a smile on your face and

start radiating loving kindness

everybody around you because you know

what their mind is doing their mind is

having that same kind of process

happening so you have the opportunity to

start directing your mind in a positive

name in a positive way by responding

with the six artists and holding a

positive image for people around you

that will lead to their happiness and

well-being too you'll start seeing other

people in the cars when you smile at

them they start smiling back and they're

complete strangers you don't know them

when you're walking in a place where

there's a lot of people if you have a

little smile on your face you start

saying other people smile back and

they're almost shocked because they see

a smiling face so the more you smile the

more you affect the world around you in

a positive way that means holding that

image of the smile in your heart okay

the next part of the Eightfold Path is

called right speech I've never liked

this interpretation so I've called this

harmonious communication now this

harmonious communication is not only

with other people but it's with yourself

who do you spend more time talking to

than anybody else yourself what kind of

thoughts and what kind of my speech do

you give yourself

the more you communicate with yourself

in an uplifted happy way the easier it

is to see when your mind gets caught by

something and starts to get pulled down

and then it's easy to notice that how

the six hours work again so that you can

start letting go of the critical

thoughts I think just about everybody is

very very critical and hard on

themselves they're harder on themselves

then you are on anybody else because we

expect perfection all the time and when

we don't have that then that's a good

opportunity to start communicating with

ourselves about how bad we are and how

we made this mistake and how we should

be better than we are the shoulds [ __ ]

ok to win it so the more we start

communicating in a kind and loving way

to ourselves about ourselves the easier

it is to see the good and kind way to

communicate with other people now the

next one is called right action and I

again change that a little bit and I

call it harmonious movement the

harmonious movement is watching your

mind and not snapping your mind around

from one thing to another now this is

also has to do with physical actions and

movements and being aware of things

around you and how to take care of the

things around you then we have right

livelihood I've always loved this in the

sutras themselves it says

livelihood means that you don't kill

living beings you don't sell poisons you

don't sell firearms what does that got

to do with meditation so I call this

harmonious lifestyle what is a

harmonious lifestyle what do you put in

front of your mind for instance is there

was one lady that came to me and she

said she was having horrible dreams

really scary dreams so I asked her why

and she said I don't know but it might

have to do with these horror movies that

I go to see hmmm and I said well don't

do that anymore and she said but I like

them and I said then don't come to me

and complain about bad dreams what kind

of lifestyle was she living she was

living a lifestyle that caused

unwholesome ness and fear to arise it

the more we can live a lifestyle that's

in balance and we can start creating

being in harmony with what we're doing

in the present moment the easier life

becomes now one of the things about

harmonious lifestyle is I had one

student that came and she

plain to me about the state of the world

and I said do you read the newspaper and

she says well I read three of them every

day and I said stop don't do that

there's nothing in the newspaper that's

uplifting you never read things about

people that do good things and make

other people happy you always read about

death and corruption and all the

political stuff that makes you angry so

don't you don't need to read a newspaper

well how am I going to be informed any

major thing that happens you will find

out about it because other people will

tell you about it I don't read the

newspaper except the sports page

whenever I get around it but that

doesn't come back in two thousand four

right after Christmas there was a

tsunami that came and then just wiped

out a whole bunch of people and there

was all kinds of destruction I heard

about it within an hour after it

happened somebody wrote me an email and

they told me all about the destruction

of the tsunami that happened in Sri

Lanka and how terrible it was and all of

this sort of thing I didn't need to read

the newspaper to find out about it

and watching the news on TV even

watching TV is is somewhat questionable

because TV has a lot of negativity in

there it's real amazing I was in Asia

for 12 years and then I came back to

America in that 12 years that I was gone

all of a sudden the radio and the

television there he's starting to use

foul language regularly we don't need to

listen to that sort of thing the last

foul language that's used around us the

better more uplifted your mind becomes

so right like lifestyle has to do with

the kind of books you read the kind of

things you put in front of your mind oh

there's there's one other part that was

always part of the right livelihood and

that was not to traffic in buying and

selling slaves what does that have to do

with us here no not much the next part

of the Eightfold Path is right effort

and we've already talked about right

effort seeing an unwholesome state

letting go of that unwholesome state and

relaxing smiling and bringing up your

object of meditation and staying with

your object of meditation that's real

simple to say

it takes practice the next part of the

Eightfold Path is called right

mindfulness harmonious observation and

the last part of the Eightfold Path is

called right concentration I never use

the word concentration because the word

concentration is misunderstood any time

you hear the word concentration everyone

assumes that it's one pointed kind of

concentration where you start reading a

book and you're so involved in the book

and somebody walks up to you and they

say something to you and you don't hear

them because you're so concentrated in

what you really so what I call right

concentration is harmonious

collectiveness a mind that's collected

is very alert a mind that's collected is

very calm and it can be still just like

one pointed concentration is still but

it leads to a different end result when

you're practicing meditation one point

it are the right concentration in the

text always say that it's the four

dramas that's what right concentration

is it doesn't ever mention anything

about neighborhood concentration or a

moment to moment concentration those are

added later in commentaries but they

don't agree with the Ford jonna's

themselves the 4th jhana has four

different parts to it sometimes people

call it the eight drives and there is

another state after the jhanas this call

this is

asian of perception and feeling and some

people say that that's the ninth drama

but and you can you can talk about it

that way but it's a little bit confusing

the cessation of perception and feeling

because there is no perception and there

is no feeling is a state right beyond

the eighth drunk but it's not a Jonah

itself all of the jhanas when you start

talking about Jonah they are levels of

your understanding when you get to the

cessation of perception and feeling

because there's no perception there's no

feeling there's no understanding at that

time so it is not really as correct as

it could be to call that the ninth drunk

lady is that clinging the same as as

these five aggregates affected by

cleaning or is the clinging something

apart from the five aggregates affected

by clinging friend Asaka that clinging

is neither the same as the five

aggregates affected by clinging nor is

clinging something apart from the fight

of aggregates affected by clinging it is

the desire the lust in regard to the

five aggregates affected by clinging

that is the clinging there did you catch

that want it again okay we'll go through

the whole thing is that clinging the

same clinging as these five aggregates

affected by clinging or is the clinging

apart from the five aggregates affected

by clinging friend visakha that clinging

is neither the same as these five

aggregates affected by clinging nor is

clinging something apart from the five

aggregates affected by clinging it is

the desire and lust in regard to the

five aggregates affected by

claiming that is the clinging there

I'm seeing a lot of blank faces so it's

pointing to dependent origination

pointing to craving happening the

cleaning the lust and most of this our

desire is craving right yes it's

pointing its own so it's the craving

kept the craving a specter clinging it's

also saying the aggregates are not

automatically that's right they are not

automatically okay Ingram is more

stationary it's kind of love is rationed

it gets stuffed with it clean you see

that craving is the process too clingy

yeah pretty asian kind of the one of the

things that I've done in other suit is

when I run across the statement affected

by clinging the five aggregates affected

by clinging is I always stop and I say

it may or may not be affected by

clinging depending on how sharp your six

ours are shot what the six ours well how

sharp your awareness is you have the

choice of tickling or not to claim

always that's the volition in Buddhism

young when that comes up dating a

recognized clean you sure but if you

have a definition of great it can be

after you recognize or it can be before

yeah I eat Chinese minutes

something like that addiction would be

the next step that would be your

habitual tendency with that acting it

out and you say we are started that's

yeah we are stuck depending on the

sharpness and only until we learn yeah

until we learn to be able to observe how

earth hey yeah that means I'm doing the

clinging yes so the matrices not so easy

from those wha it takes practice no it

takes practice to be able to do it but

as you go deeper in your meditation it

does get easier so I don't understand

why you're from good sure the aggregates

and the clinging are not separate them

if you may or may not claim to cling to

the aggregates because the average

person doesn't see that as may or may

not they see it as cleaning they see it

as your concepts of or they're your

story about it's a way I n yeah the

average person doesn't have any

definition of craving doesn't have any

doesn't know that's the condition for

clean doesn't know what habitual

tendency is so without those definitions

you're totally caught in this it's so

fast those three so when she when she

sent to the sakha it's neither

that clinging is neither the same as the

five aggregates affected by clinging nor

is clinging something apart from the

five aggregates affected by things

happen that's really good because see

that's fuel for talking to Victor Rodia

about this again because we brought up

the question is respected by cleaning

and he went hmm you know but we had to

find other texts that pointed to that

you know that there's a choice no action

the other translation is clinging

aggregates right that's the other choice

for this translation is is really not

very good and Noah City manga that is

that that angle without any question

okay lady how does identity view come to

be here friend visakha an untaught

ordinary person who has no regard for

the noble ones and is unskilled and

undisciplined in their dama who has no

regard for true men and as an unskilled

and undisciplined in their Dhamma

regards forms as self or self as

possessed of material form or material

form as in self or self as in material

form he regards feeling itself or self

as possessed of feeling or feeling as

itself or self as in feeling he regards

percentage self or self as busy

by of pizzette of perception or

perception as in self or self as in

perception in regards formations as self

or self as possessed of formations or

formations as in self or self as

informations he regards consciousness as

self or self as possessed of

consciousness for consciousness as in

self or self as in consciousness that is

how identity view comes to be so it's

always trying to make one of the agri

whichever aggregate it is personal in

all of any of the different ways and

miss gets real tricky and this is how

the the brahmanas during the time the

Buddha got caught by making everything

God and God is in the way of most people

thinking is this permanent never

changing entity

and that really goes against what the

Buddha is showing us there is nothing

that's permanent ever we're going on

about a discussion about this she seems

to say that the four noble truths are

permanent I had that idea for about an

hour but it's not the four noble truths

are always around but they're not

recognized so in that way they're always

changing they rise the past away all

right I'm going prob about the bottom

you see if you say is in there are

Thurmond is in fact we objectify them

make it kind of an entity they are and

that's what I also feel is done it's

really done this Adonis the jhanas you

see there an entity but they are the

same light thing at four noble truths

they are approved in the motion of the

process oh yeah definitely definitely

then objectify means you owe you you

have a processor here someone rich

people as it has made it an object and

journey

19 kitchen lady now does identity view

not come to be here friends Asaka well

Todd Noble disciple who has regard for

the noble ones and his guild and

disciplined in their Dhamma who has

regard for true men and is killed and

disciplined in there download does not

regard material for a second or as

self-possessed of material form for

material form as in self herself as in

material form he does not regard feeling

herself herself as possessed or feeling

or feeling as in self or self as in

feeling he does not regard perception as

self or self as possessed of perception

or perception as in self or self as in

perception he does not regard formations

as self or self as possessed of

formations or formations as in self or

self as informations he does not regard

consciousness as self or self as

possessed of consciousness or self as in

consciousness or self as in where

consciousness as in self or self as in

consciousness excuse me that is how the

identity view does not come to be in

other words that is five aggregates not

affected by cleaning the Noble Eightfold

Path lady what is the Noble Eightfold

Path from the socket it is just this

noble eightfold path

that is harmonious perspective

harmonious imaging harmonious

communication armonia smooth and

harmonious lifestyle harmonious practice

harmonious observation and harmonious

collectiveness lady is the Noble

Eightfold Path condition or

unconditioned friend visakha the Noble

Eightfold Path is conditioned lady are

the three aggregates include included by

the Noble Eightfold Path or is the

Eightfold Path included by the three

aggregate the three aggregates are not

included in the Eightfold Path friend

visakha but the Noble Eightfold Path is

included by the three aggregates the

harmonious communication harmonious

movement and harmonious lifestyle these

states are included in the aggregate of

virtue harmonious practice harmonious

observation and harmonious

collectiveness these states are included

in the aggregate of collectiveness

harmonious perspective and harmonious

imaging these states are included in the

aggregate of wisdom lady this is as the

section on concentration lady what is

collectiveness what is the basis of

collectiveness what is the equipment of

collectiveness what is the development

of collectiveness unification of my

friend visakha is collected pneus the

four foundations of mindfulness are

based on are the basis of collectiveness

the four right kinds of striving are the

equipment of collectiveness the

repetition development and cultivation

of these same states is the development

of collectiveness there in didn't you

say that right kind is driving the same

is right ever yes so this is rather

interesting because it says the

unification of mind is collected pneus

the four foundations of mindfulness are

the basis of collectiveness which is

saying that the four foundations of

mindful mindfulness is talking about

states of drama

remember we did the bulk of the four

foundations of mindfulness a few days

back and you got to see how it was

always talking about the drown estate

how does the five aggregates work into

because the five aggregates are simply

the four foundations of mindfulness

threes three ingredients no whole

different areas where are getting about

time so what what is it what do you

think ok because it's ok the four

foundations of mindfulness is

essentially the basis for Jana yet but

we in the previous discussions last week

we had said that the five aggregates and

the four is a bison a saint are ya this

Asia blues and intelligently so but then

it's also saying that then the five

aggregates are the basis for a china

yeah are there like letting go of the

five aggregates of the basis for china

now but it's not letting go because when

you look at the chart wherever it

happens ok so they're they're basically

saying that they're they're the same

thing and these four four foundations of

mindfulness they arise while you're in

your practice and that would be the

basis for the foundations or for the

collective's here here cuz i always

thought the five agris with a base

ignorance because that's that's affected

by clean if you like creamy mac let's

see there that's the tricky part if it's

affected like okay okay hunting like

four nominations being the film nation

for Jonah if you look at the four

foundations of mindfulness on you does

it mean like if you examine them the

body as the body feeling as being like

oh and you see things as they actually

are that allows you to go in John is

that what you for course okay there's

some some translations that are changing

for foundations to say the body in the

body and the feeling in the feeling and

that is the basis for the choiceless

awareness it's pretty common terrible

thing yeah it doesn't the trace less

awareness doesn't really work because

there is that craving with whatever

arises and there's not seeing the

craving so you can let it go and your

mindfulness with choiceless awareness it

doesn't develop nearly as quickly as

coming back to an object to meditation

object meditation with your home base so

if you're just going from one thing that

arises to another thing to arise is that

to another

arises you're not having that you're not

practicing the six RS and you're not

coming back to your object of meditation

so you can see how it gets distracted

again ok so you never get to seem to get

an origination that one no ok formations

lady how many formations are there there

are three formations friend Asaka the

bodily formation the verbal formation

and the mental formation but lady what

is the bodily formation what is the

verbal formation what is the mental

formation in breathing and out breathing

friend visakha are the bodily formation

thinking and examining thought are the

verbal formation perception and feeling

are the mental formation but lady why

are in breathing and out breathing the

bodily formation why are thinking and

examining thought the verbal formation

why our perception and feeling the

mental formation friend visakha and

breathing and out breathing or bodily

these are states bound up with the body

that is why and breathing and out

breathing or bodily formations there are

other bodily formations outside of the

breath to when you start radiating

loving kindness there is the feeling

that is that it has to have a body in

order to feel so it's not only in and

breathing and out

first one apply a one thinks and

examines thought and subsequently one

breaks out into speech that is why

thinking and examining thought our

verbal formation perception and feeling

are mental these are states bound up

with mind that is why perception feeling

Farva mental formation the attainment of

cessation Lane how does the attainment

of cessation of perception and feeling

come to be friend visakha when a monk is

attaining the cessation of perception

and feeling it does not occur to him I

shall attain this the cessation of

perception and feeling sore I am

attaining the cessation of perception

and feeling or I have attained this

cessation of perception and feeling but

rather his mind is has previously

developed in such a way that it leads

him to that state leading when a monk is

attaining the cessation of perception

and feeling which state sees in him the

bodily formation verbal formation or the

mental formation friend isaka when a

monk is attaining the cessation of

perception and feeling first the verbal

formation ceases then the bodily

formation then the mental formation lady

how does emergence from the attainment

of the cessation of perception and

feeling come to be friend asaka when a

monk is emerging

from the attainment of the cessation of

perception and feeling it does not occur

to him I shall emerge from the

attainment of the cessation of

perception and feeling or I am emerging

from the internment of the cessation of

perception and feeling or I have emerged

from the attainment of the cessation of

perception and feeling but rather his

mind has previously been developed in

such a way that it leads to that state

so when perception and feeling cease

that will last for a period of time not

a long period of time and last 5 or 10

minutes something like that and then

when the perception and feeling arise

again that is it's like you had a truck

board and you clean the chalkboard off

and then when the perception and feeling

come back up you see the ignorance the

formations the consciousness you see the

ontology materiality and all of the rest

of dependent origination and then you

see how they cease and this doesn't

arise that won't arise when that won't

arise this doesn't right the clear

understanding of seeing dependent

origination in this way

is such a big understanding that your

mind goes oh wow and Nibhana occurs you

don't your mind doesn't really go oh wow

but it's it's that kind of an experience

I mean it is consciousness altering and

that's how Nibhana occurs now if you

have the slightest bit of attachment to

being unsure being afraid that will stop

this cessation of perception I'm feeling

from arising so you want to make sure

that your mind is completely open and

accepting of this state it's it can be

in subtle little I don't know if I

really want to do this or not and we

have to let that go guaranteed you'll

like it on the other side of this oh but

it's going to change me yes it will

you're going to have a lot more fun your

mind's going to be a lot more clear I'll

do to my dentist at the oh it's

fantastic

yesterday we live in it and that you

cannot see it and then that seeing those

anything that's that's the importance of

the cessation of perception and healing

and you get into that state with any of

those wavelengths no no right okay have

to let go all of that stuff you're down

the rabbit hole once you get in there

yeah that's kind of the reasons that the

mines that that sorry cooked i had was

kind of need to know and we usually say

sometimes the mines that of the person

is like a little two year old who's just

looking around the corner to see next no

no apprehension about what might be

there no desire to see what's there just

looking around the corner to see what's

next and if you can hold that frame of

mind and just go curiosity like it's

it's an adventure to see what this is

going to be you can you can do that sara

is sarah event where a person could have

cessation of perception and feeling and

coming out of it not sefa dependent

origination

I had never heard of it that is part of

the process of it and in seeing with

wisdom his tanks were destroyed in

wisdoms I'd same dependent origination

so there can't be even a slightest bit

of hesitation or anxiety about what's

going to happen if I do it there has to

be just that openness of saying let's

see what happens next it was interesting

because somebody showed up ones who

apparently had the experience but didn't

know anything about what they saw and

it's funny because I had asked him the

question about two weeks before this

person showed up to ask him what

happened so you know he didn't have any

idea where seen he could describe when

when I went to the suit is and I started

reading it his eyes got real wide and he

started going oh oh yeah yeah so in

enough an example where it can help into

a person that they have no idea what

this list that happened yeah well he

went through a change and he knew he

went through a change and he started

going to a lot of teachers and they

agreed he went through a change but they

couldn't explain it was he meditating

kind of on its own form I mean I kind of

got the feeling that he was he would

stone a professor at Tulane University

he was in the booth Studies department

so he had exposure to a lot of different

types of things you know and he was some

I can't remember what he told us he was

practicing when this happened but it

wasn't harsh I remember it wasn't hirsch

so it was some kind of a practical into

this but when he saw that he saw the

legs he could not get an explanation of

what this was from any teachers until he

came to Bondi and then he explained what

it was and I was there when he was

explaining it and his eyes just really

just he knew precisely that's what this

was all about and then he staked her I

think it was a week or two weeks to get

into what all of this and it came

together really fast for him his

understanding of how young man that came

to bow to you about four years ago five

years ago me and you believe is that

long five or six years back he showed up

in the winter time to talk to bonte

about what had happened to him

personally and what he had seen and he

saw the twelve links when he came out of

cessation he saw them go up and go down

but he had didn't understand he had no

definitions no training and all for a

reference no frame of reference yeah and

so he didn't know what it was and when

Monty gave my experience then he

recognized it after yet the internet

the exhibition's bring together really

fast when I'm in just a few days he

could understand all this stuff came

together to him you know really clearly

and he went through a personality shift

who knew that so there can't be the

slightest hesitation for any reason at

all my life is going to change after

this that this happens now what's going

to happen well yes it will your modern

mind is going to be so much more clear

when I was going to read so much more

alert it could also how together we are

home the legs is recorded at the white

cast treated they go first to understand

everything so so intellectualizing to

such an extent that the

intellectualization somehow false often

see experience appearance yes and that

happens that can happen for the first

stage of enlightenment and the second

stage but not the high ratings and that

can happen through meditation to thank

make sense to me truth after after a

person has a path knowledge they still

have to work for the fruition on it here

and when the fruition knowledge comes

then they have a sense of what stage of

enlightenment they are experiencing and

we'll go into that at another time in a

couple of days there i have another suit

that will talk about

okay lady when a monk is emerging from

the attainment of cessation of

perception and feeling which date arises

first in him the bodily formation verbal

formation or mental formation friend

Masako when a monk is emerged from the

attainment of the cessation of

perception and feeling first the mental

formation arises then the bodily

formation then the verbal formation lady

when a monk has emerged from the

attainment of the cessation of

perception and feeling how many kinds of

contact touchram bread bussaco when a

monk has emerged from the attainment of

perception and fielder cessation of

perception and feeling three kinds of

contact touch him voidness contact

cyclist assigned lyst contact and

desireless contact I want to see what be

Kapoor be said about those

the first aid of consciousness to arise

on emerging from the cessation is that

of fruition attainment no that's not

right that is taken from the duty maaga

and and avi dama both and it is not

correct there is a belief that once you

have the path knowledge there's there's

17 different parts of the thought moment

okay and there are seven Juwanna moments

and you attain nirvana in one of those

seven Joanna moments and they have the

belief that the next job on a moment is

the fruition and that's just not right

you wouldn't know that you had fruition

if it happened that fast and there are

people that will have the path knowledge

for a period of time before they get the

relation knowledge so what he's saying

here I think we have to let it go

it said avoid Nestle firm sadness and

desire of us to buy the desire that's

fine well there's there's not a lot

happening in your mind I mean there is

various consciousness and you're aware

but there's not going to be a whole lot

of thoughts arising in your mind at

first why couldn't that we dis research

at ugliness when you come out the

meanest of the craving that boyish when

you go back to 121 and look at the

definition of Moya's boy list of the

Creighton clean image antennas and I

think we won't have to let that go for a

little while that doesn't feel right

research yeah its research time okay

lady when a monk has emerged from the

attainment of the cessation of

perception and feeling too what does is

mine inclined to what does it mean to

what does it end Brenda soccer when a

mock has emerged from the attainment of

the cessation of perception and feeling

his mind inclines to seclusion leans to

seclusion tends to seclusion for a

little while it's such a major release

of tensions and tightness 'as that the

joy that arises is really strong you

will feel it in every cell in your body

there's a relief and if you happen to

attain that and you come and tell me you

attain it and I say good now go sit

that's less than you feel like doing but

if you do it there's great lessons that

you'll you'll you'll have from six ah

ring and letting it go and allowing the

feeling to be there your mind will have

the opportunity to go in deeper again

and you can have the fruition very

quickly it depends on the conditions so

this this kind of experience is what

we're working for

is it attainable in this lifetime

absolutely do you have to be a month to

get it no you don't do you have to be a

monk after you get it maybe it depends

on what happens feeling lady how many

kinds of feeling are there there are

three kinds of feeling pleasant feeling

painful feeling and neither painful more

pleasant feeling but lady what is

pleasant feeling what is painful feeling

what is neither painful more pleasant

feeling Brenda Socko whatever is felt

bodily or mentally as pleasant and

soothing is pleasant feeling whatever is

felt bodily or mentally as painful feel

painful memory is painful feeling

whatever is felt bodily and mentally as

neither soothing nor hurry is neither

painful nor pleasant feeling lady what

is pleasant feeling what is painful

feeling in regard to pleasant feeling

what is painful feeling and what is

pleasant feeling in regard to painful

feeling what is pleasant feeling and

what is painful feeling in regard to

neither painful nor pleasant feeling

here Fred visakha pleasant feeling is

pleasant when it persists and painful

when it changes painful feeling is

painful when it persists and pleasant

when it changes neither painful more

pleasant feeling is pleasant when there

is knowledge of it and painful when

there

is no knowledge of it why is it painful

when there is no knowledge of neither

perception our neither pain nor pleasant

feeling cause it bothers people in it

nags say that again okay neither painful

nor pleasant feeling is pleasant when

there is knowledge of it and painful

when there is no knowledge of it why is

it painful when there is no knowledge of

neither painful unpleasant yeah cuz it's

the ignorance or it's delusional that's

your there's a difference between

equanimity neither pleasant they're

welcome and come on just in between

different surly and neutral or

indifference and difference in

difference in the difference as I am

attached to and that's what we're

talking about here that's why it would

be painful if there is no knowledge of

it yeah it's one of the big mistakes

that is that equanimity they think is

indifference and equanimity is not

indifference it's not then it's much

bigger than okay we have some underlying

tendencies lady what underlying does

that mean that there's allowance that's

the allowance method is the same now I

didn't hear the word allowance allowing

us allow it to be ya know Craig

ok that's what I'm going to see in

differences in difference on saying

again to that who cares okay thank you

okay what underlying tendency underlies

pleasant feeling what underlying

tendency underlies painful feeling what

underlying tendency underlies neither

painful nor pleasant feeling Brenda

Sokka the underlying tendency to lust

underlies pleasant feeling that means

the potential for lust is there when

there is pleasant feeling the underlying

tendency to aversion underlies painful

feeling painful feeling arises the first

thing your mind wants to do get rid of

it we should wait not have it around for

you the underlying tendency to ignorance

underlies neither painful more pleasant

feeling what is ignorance in the Four

Noble Truths and that's the that's the

underlying tendency to a difference lady

does the underlying tendency to lust

underlie all pleasant feeling does the

underlying tendency to aversion underlie

all painful feeling there's the

underlying tendency to ignorance

underlie all painful at all neither

painful more pleasant feeling friend

visakha the underlying tendency to lust

does not underlie all painful feelings

all pink pleasant feeling excuse me the

underlying tendency to aversion does not

underlie all painful feeling the

underlying 10

the ignorance does not underlie all

neither painful more pleasant you lady

what should be abandoned in regard to

pleasant feeling what should be

abandoned in regard to painful feeling

what should be abandoned in regard to

neither painful more pleasant feeling

here V Saco the underlying tendency to

lust should be abandoned in regard to

paint pleasant feeling the underlying

tendency to aversion should be abandoned

in regard to painful feeling the

underlying tendency to ignorance should

be abandoned in regard to neither

painful nor pleasant feeling lady does

the underlying tendency to lust have to

be abandoned in regard to all pleasant

feeling does the underlying tendency to

aversion have to be abandoned in regard

to all painful feeling does the

underlying tendency to ignorance have to

be abandoned in regard to all painful

nor pleasant feeling friend vishakha the

underlying tendency does not to lust

does not have to be abandoned in regard

to all pleasant feeling the underlying

tendency to aversion does not have to be

abandoned in regard to all painful

feeling the underlying tendency to

ignorance does not have to be abandoned

in regard to all neither painful more

pleasant feeling here Fred visakha quite

secluded from sensual pleasures secluded

from unwholesome states a monk enters

upon n abides in the first Rana which is

accompanied by thinking and examining

thought with joy and

measure and happiness born of seclusion

with that he abandons lust and the

underlying tendency to lust does not lie

does not underlie that so hopefully not

all pleasant feeling means that has must

arise in it when you get into a drana at

that time there is no lust or a tendency

for lust to arrive at that time here a

month considers thus when shall I enter

upon and abide in that base that the

noble ones now enter upon and abide in

in one who thus generates a longing for

the supreme liberation grief arises and

with that longing as condition with that

he abandons aversion the underlying

tendency to aversion does not lie within

that what a bed just say

and we'll do it again

here a monk considers thus when shall I

enter upon and abide in that base that

the noble ones now enter upon and abide

in in one who thus generates a longing

for supreme liberation brief arises and

with that longing as condition with that

he abandons aversion the underlying

tendency to aversion does not underlie

that it's basically saying that if

you're longing for it you can't get

there that's right your diet on your

desire is going to keep you from getting

there or in other words that's where

this lines that comes in where you just

the two-year-old doesn't have any desire

for anything to be around the corner

he's just looking you know what do you

watch it is that because the abortion is

to the present moment to being the

inversion is not having what you want

when you want it

and doesn't it that gets confirmed in 36

to where he figured out pleasurable

moments are permitted permitted in

figured that out in machine from the

kind number 36 up to that point with all

his practices he thought no pleasure was

allowed at all as an aesthetic none so

he couldn't do this kind of a where

Jonna this later John and because he had

to he had to kind of torture himself

with what he was doing the way they were

doing everything and he figured that out

in that that was actually a major

insight very major if not all pleasant

feeling has less timing that has left

underneath it you're the job and you're

enjoying it want to stay some bad luck

if you're enjoying it and wanted to stay

always like that so that's not even

because when you're in a Jonah your mind

is very pure and the way that it becomes

pure is by not having craving at that

time if you have the desire to keep that

Jonah all of a sudden you're not in the

drama anymore and you have I am that

attached to that desire but you also can

experiencing this all must get you don't

look down

jonna for experiencing Pleasant feelings

without dust right yes as long as

there's not the identification with them

about the craving understanding for

those processes is sometimes enough to

experiencing everything every time you

certainly can that's nothing it

certainly can be but that's one of the

reasons I tell people when they get into

a drama and they experience the joy that

they 6r the joy they don't try to make

the joy last longer or try to hold on to

it in any way you six are and you allow

the joy to be there and come back to

your object of meditation that's the way

to have it last longer it's plain

lovingly accepting the present moment

exactly as it is so the student comes

and he goes tomorrow and he says I'm

going to have another session just like

yesterday and it won't work

why doesn't it work because the avenging

craving it is in them Andrew it causes

restlessness to arise because you start

trying to work it doesn't come so you

start leaning out of the present moment

a little bit more trying to make it come

and all of a sudden you're attacked by

restlessness I think also what you're

doing tues you're judging that present

moment compared to what the past was

right and in that process you're pushing

from the present moment up away and it's

happening at a very subtle level so

you're never really opening to what's

happened so to jump ahead of yourself

yeah and that is a separation right

there anyway

here with the abandoning of pleasure and

pain with the previous disappearance of

joy brief among enters upon and abides

in the fourth drama which has neither

pain nor pleasure and purity of

mindfulness dude equanimity with that he

abandons ignorance and the underlying

tendency of ignorance does not underlie

that so we're talking about getting into

equanimity instead of indifference and

that then the ignorance doesn't underlie

that counterparts lady what is the

counterpart of pleasant feeling when

visakha painful feeling is a counterpart

of pleasant feeling what is the

counterpart of pleasant feeling or

excuse me painful feeling pleasant

feeling is a counterpart of painful

feeling what is the counterpart of

neither painful nor pleasant feeling

ignorance is the counterpart of neither

painful more pleasant feeling what is

the counterpart of ignorance true

knowledge is the counterpart of

ignorance what is the counterpart of

true knowledge deliverance is the

counterpart of true knowledge what is

the counterpart of deliverance Nevada is

the counterpart of deliverance lady what

is the counterpart of Nevada friend

visakha you've pushed this line of

questioning too far you were not able to

grasp the limit of the questions for the

holy life friend visakha is grounded

upon nirvana culminates in Nibhana ends

in Nibhana if you wish Fred Visakha go

to the blessed one and ask him about

the meaning of this as the blessed one

explains it to you you should remember

it then the lay follower visakha having

delighted and rejoiced in the Baku need

uh Medina's words rose from his seat and

after paying homage to him keeping him

on the right he went to the Blessed One

after paying homage to him he sat down

at one side and told the Blessed One his

entire conversation with the Baku need

al-madinah when he finished speaking the

Blessed One told him the bhikkhu Donna

Dina is wise Busacca arm the Baku need a

medina is why excuse me the Baku need

al-madinah has great wisdom if you had

asked me the meaning of this I would

have explained it to you in the same way

that the Baku need a medina has

explained it such is its meaning and so

you should remember it that is what the

Blessed One said the lay follower risako

was satisfied and delighted in the

Blessed ones words that is high praise

coming from the woods and he does that

not only with da Medina he also does it

with some monks and says that that's

exactly this the right way to say it and

I couldn't have said it any better yes

have a question um she became a Baku

knee but he continued to be a late

follower but he was a monitor on agami

so you could still be a lay person being

a nun gotta go so when you were talking

about going through the attainment of

perception and non perception

the attainment yeah he said that one

would would become a monk maybe maybe

yeah that's what I mean it can be that

you would become a nun got me or you

would become an hour out well I seen are

hot thank you to come on then you would

be coming to be goody or as it says in

the suit does you would die within seven

days because you need the purity of the

Sangha and they're armed there are

people that chose to die after seven

days the the Buddha's father he was very

ill and he became in our hot and he said

that's enough I don't want any more in

and he died as a layman he didn't take

the big on ropes but I thought there's a

problem about the cooney's because of

the order is no don't worry about your

power ranger you give their we'll talk

conundrum well but it's not something to

be afraid of at all the advantages of

becoming

and our hot are really really big

because the clarity of your mind means

that there is no ignorance ever arising

in your mind again and that's a big one

you know and the advantages of what what

are hot do it depends on their personal

Bend some of them become teachers and

some of them don't but they always wind

up helping people what is an eject

you're not ready to such a bookkeeper

hey you say there is or what it's eight

so yes definitely anything sensitive

not so sensitive perceive that aviation

of that your purity but you have to go

through a fruition to attain one of

those states choice if you just said

path there is no real personality

development with the path not my

personality development happens at fruit

that's like at fruition I'd manga and it

can happen at any time I mean you can be

washing the dishes or mowing the lawn or

doing whatever and you'll start to feel

that your mind is just going deep and

you say okay and then go sit down for a

little while watch what's happening and

then it will happen by itself but the

thing is you have to really be careful

after the path knowledge to keep your

sets doors that not be attached to your

sense doors and you need to be careful

with what your mind is doing I mean

there can be a tendency for some people

to say I've already attained this I

don't care i can go out and do anything

and they can actually never have the

parishioner right because of that that

that is a problem so they're that ones

that did that talk

you can lose the attainment it talks

about how you can have the attainment

and lose the pain just because of that

because of not having a commission and

then we talk about the different

attainments and how that person still

has work to do and that what he means is

the path I'll be I'm sorry everybody has

work to do until they become in arad

with the fruition now do you want to ask

me whether I know whether a person's

become our hot or a non egami haven't

got a clue yeah well that things happen

by itself so essentially when you have

the cessation of perception of feeling

you would have to you had your of the

path of that and then there's the

fruition of that look at each stage of

the enlightenment process so it's

conceivable that you could have half

like MSA knowledge or Padma tainment but

you can die in the process and what

would happen with that hurry is there

anything the suit is hit let's nap you

can be kinda talks about

and if if you died fairly quickly after

the attainment of path the fruition

knowledge would occur before you died

dude right before you died and this this

can happen fast it is not necessarily

going to be fast if you'd like it how

quick you might lose hit a 10 because

you said is a suit of it said you you

can lose your head if it happens that

you would die in the next day you still

have your stuff stores are still being

guarded it I mean it takes a while to

wear that where that down and get back

to quote the way you were so this year

like that does this who does actually

have a time frame site between Pam you

know so it could be anywhere from or

years to the consent days days or

seconds it depends on your karma at the

time that you can lose the Hat you can

lose now at acknowledge if you indulge

in your sense pleasures and you don't

you can still break the precepts nice

like that okay but if you were to die

that if you were to die and you broke

the precepts and you didn't watch your

son stores that attainment would do not

much good would you get the provision

yes so you can't party no the certified

Bernama yelling I mean there may be an

inclination party but Allah is probably

not going to have that arising craving

or thing happening so you're a hot it's

like a good there's no personality

development until the fruition occurs

you still have been in dental of the

bettors arising and if you don't take

care of that in a wholesome way then

you're hurting yourself very deeply

this is I think maybe you answered it

there frooition knowledge is just

kidding I don't I don't know what

farisha knowledge is I guess it gives

you you have this process is attainment

right and then all the paths and you

have to have path and fruition knowledge

for the personality development to occur

and the personality development would be

getting rid of either five fetters or

ten fetters depending on some remember

sometimes they talk about the eight

kinds of individuals the eight kinds of

it's actually a kind containment there's

not for there's eight okay so it's the

soda pond and the soda pond or through

ition and then the socket ago me and

it's not going to go in with permission

and then the IDA going with the UH

Negaunee fruition and the airlock with

the arm fought for permission so there's

the eight kinds of individuals and

Humpty so if you were a thought the pot

in this lifetime and your died and

you're born as a human are you in autumn

excellent apologia trivialize know that

you would you would remember that

experience when you're very young would

come in a dream and you would know

beyond any doubt that you are sort of

what is the sort of first step of

enlightenment and you would come back no

less or no lower than a human being and

you would you can come back as many as

seven times before you would attain are

a trip and apparently but you can be

reborn in a heavenly realm and attain

nirvana apparently bottom from there

and we'll talk more about that in a

couple of days I'll bring out the suta

and show you where it says this okay

yeah good okay the true Samaritan

basically once be suffering free and the

fear struck fearless be maybe you should

all breathe inside relief may all be

share this merit that we have thus

acquired with your acquisition of all

kinds of happiness may be insanity space

under the name is a Naga so many power

is merit alone they all protect with

disposition

you

that is craving for sensual pleasures

craving for being and craving for non

being this is called the origin of

identity by the blessed one lady

cessation of identity cessation of

identity is said what is called the

cessation of identity by the blessed one

Frank Osaka it is the remainder is

fading away and cessation the giving up

relinquishing let ego and rejecting of

that same craving what does that mean

they practiced 606 ours although they

didn't call it that then they practice

right effort that's how you get rid of

crazy so there is seeing an unwholesome

state letting go of that unwholesome

state and relaxing smiling and bringing

up that wholesome state and keeping that

wholesome state going excuse me got some

cut

this is called the cessation of identity

by the Blessed One lady the way leading

to the cessation of identity the way

leading to the cessation of identity is

that

it's got a tickle with it this time what

is called the way leading to the

cessation of identity by the Blessed One

friend visakha it is just this naval

Noble Eightfold Path now when we start

talking about the Eightfold Path it's

right view righted right thought right

speech right action Right Livelihood and

so on always with right the poly word

for right is sama but there's other

definitions of sama two and one of them

can be harmonious so I pick harmonious

because if it's right then there's wrong

and that everything is black and white

but as we know in life not everything is

black and white their shades of grey so

when we call harmonious when you're in

harmony with what you're doing

everything flows along very easily

there's there's no effort so I use and I

tend to change all of the Eightfold Path

a little bit instead of calling it right

view I call it harmonious perspective

you're harmonious perspective is the

perspective of everything that arises

is part of an impersonal process when

you're out of harmony with your

perspective that means that you're

taking whatever arises personally and

that causes your mind to get tight and

you start coming up with an awful lot

more clean stories opinions concepts

ideas and identifying with all of those

as yours when anger arises whose anger

is I met I don't like this I don't want

it to be that way when you practice

smiling and develop a sense of humor

about yourself then you can laugh at

being caught by the anger and it goes

from being I met and I don't like it too

it's only anger and it's very easy to

let it go that's why this is a

harmonious perspective because it keeps

harmony with everything around you and

in you now the next of the Eightfold

Path is called right thought I call it

harmonious imaging you hold an image of

the way you want things to be you hold

an image with your thoughts you holdin

you hold images of the way you think the

world is around you for instance I have

a friend back in Missouri she is always

broke and she holds the idea that

could never get any money she's holding

that image in her mind that's not a

harmonious image because there is the I

am that attached to it the harmonious

image would be uplifting it would have a

lot of positivity so the more you hold

these positive images of what's

happening in the present moment the

easier the present moment is to be in

you're not leaning out of the present

moment you're accepting the present

moment as it is in your holding a

positive image you get caught in a

traffic jam I hate being in a traffic

jam see what kind of image that is being

in a traffic jam is good or bad

depending on your perspective right if

you look at being in a traffic jam as an

opportunity to radiate loving kindness

to other people around you then it's not

a bad thing at all right it's a very

good thing

the thing with the image is we have the

choice to make with what we do with our

mind in the present moment we can fall

back in our old habitual ways of acting

like you always act when you get caught

in a traffic jam BRR I hate this traffic

my dad no I wonder what the problem is

why can't we be moving those kind of

images that you're holding don't lead to

your happiness and well-being or the

happiness of other people around you

those kind of images that you're holding

lead to your suffering and lead to

suffering in the future because you

develop that habit every time you get in

a traffic jam it's going to happen in

the same way so you have the choice to

make either act and react the way you

always act when you get caught in a

traffic jam or not you can respond by

seeing the dislike start to arise and

six are it and essentially already does

it have a smile in your mind you might

as well put a smile on your face and

start radiating loving kindness

everybody around you because you know

what their mind is doing their mind is

having that same kind of process

happening so you have the opportunity to

start directing your mind in a positive

name in a positive way by responding

with the six artists and holding a

positive image for people around you

that will lead to their happiness and

well-being too you'll start seeing other

people in the cars when you smile at

them they start smiling back and they're

complete strangers you don't know them

when you're walking in a place where

there's a lot of people if you have a

little smile on your face you start

saying other people smile back and

they're almost shocked because they see

a smiling face so the more you smile the

more you affect the world around you in

a positive way that means holding that

image of the smile in your heart okay

the next part of the Eightfold Path is

called right speech I've never liked

this interpretation so I've called this

harmonious communication now this

harmonious communication is not only

with other people but it's with yourself

who do you spend more time talking to

than anybody else yourself what kind of

thoughts and what kind of my speech do

you give yourself

the more you communicate with yourself

in an uplifted happy way the easier it

is to see when your mind gets caught by

something and starts to get pulled down

and then it's easy to notice that how

the six hours work again so that you can

start letting go of the critical

thoughts I think just about everybody is

very very critical and hard on

themselves they're harder on themselves

then you are on anybody else because we

expect perfection all the time and when

we don't have that then that's a good

opportunity to start communicating with

ourselves about how bad we are and how

we made this mistake and how we should

be better than we are the shoulds [ __ ]

ok to win it so the more we start

communicating in a kind and loving way

to ourselves about ourselves the easier

it is to see the good and kind way to

communicate with other people now the

next one is called right action and I

again change that a little bit and I

call it harmonious movement the

harmonious movement is watching your

mind and not snapping your mind around

from one thing to another now this is

also has to do with physical actions and

movements and being aware of things

around you and how to take care of the

things around you then we have right

livelihood I've always loved this in the

sutras themselves it says

livelihood means that you don't kill

living beings you don't sell poisons you

don't sell firearms what does that got

to do with meditation so I call this

harmonious lifestyle what is a

harmonious lifestyle what do you put in

front of your mind for instance is there

was one lady that came to me and she

said she was having horrible dreams

really scary dreams so I asked her why

and she said I don't know but it might

have to do with these horror movies that

I go to see hmmm and I said well don't

do that anymore and she said but I like

them and I said then don't come to me

and complain about bad dreams what kind

of lifestyle was she living she was

living a lifestyle that caused

unwholesome ness and fear to arise it

the more we can live a lifestyle that's

in balance and we can start creating

being in harmony with what we're doing

in the present moment the easier life

becomes now one of the things about

harmonious lifestyle is I had one

student that came and she

plain to me about the state of the world

and I said do you read the newspaper and

she says well I read three of them every

day and I said stop don't do that

there's nothing in the newspaper that's

uplifting you never read things about

people that do good things and make

other people happy you always read about

death and corruption and all the

political stuff that makes you angry so

don't you don't need to read a newspaper

well how am I going to be informed any

major thing that happens you will find

out about it because other people will

tell you about it I don't read the

newspaper except the sports page

whenever I get around it but that

doesn't come back in two thousand four

right after Christmas there was a

tsunami that came and then just wiped

out a whole bunch of people and there

was all kinds of destruction I heard

about it within an hour after it

happened somebody wrote me an email and

they told me all about the destruction

of the tsunami that happened in Sri

Lanka and how terrible it was and all of

this sort of thing I didn't need to read

the newspaper to find out about it

and watching the news on TV even

watching TV is is somewhat questionable

because TV has a lot of negativity in

there it's real amazing I was in Asia

for 12 years and then I came back to

America in that 12 years that I was gone

all of a sudden the radio and the

television there he's starting to use

foul language regularly we don't need to

listen to that sort of thing the last

foul language that's used around us the

better more uplifted your mind becomes

so right like lifestyle has to do with

the kind of books you read the kind of

things you put in front of your mind oh

there's there's one other part that was

always part of the right livelihood and

that was not to traffic in buying and

selling slaves what does that have to do

with us here no not much the next part

of the Eightfold Path is right effort

and we've already talked about right

effort seeing an unwholesome state

letting go of that unwholesome state and

relaxing smiling and bringing up your

object of meditation and staying with

your object of meditation that's real

simple to say

it takes practice the next part of the

Eightfold Path is called right

mindfulness harmonious observation and

the last part of the Eightfold Path is

called right concentration I never use

the word concentration because the word

concentration is misunderstood any time

you hear the word concentration everyone

assumes that it's one pointed kind of

concentration where you start reading a

book and you're so involved in the book

and somebody walks up to you and they

say something to you and you don't hear

them because you're so concentrated in

what you really so what I call right

concentration is harmonious

collectiveness a mind that's collected

is very alert a mind that's collected is

very calm and it can be still just like

one pointed concentration is still but

it leads to a different end result when

you're practicing meditation one point

it are the right concentration in the

text always say that it's the four

dramas that's what right concentration

is it doesn't ever mention anything

about neighborhood concentration or a

moment to moment concentration those are

added later in commentaries but they

don't agree with the Ford jonna's

themselves the 4th jhana has four

different parts to it sometimes people

call it the eight drives and there is

another state after the jhanas this call

this is

asian of perception and feeling and some

people say that that's the ninth drama

but and you can you can talk about it

that way but it's a little bit confusing

the cessation of perception and feeling

because there is no perception and there

is no feeling is a state right beyond

the eighth drunk but it's not a Jonah

itself all of the jhanas when you start

talking about Jonah they are levels of

your understanding when you get to the

cessation of perception and feeling

because there's no perception there's no

feeling there's no understanding at that

time so it is not really as correct as

it could be to call that the ninth drunk

lady is that clinging the same as as

these five aggregates affected by

cleaning or is the clinging something

apart from the five aggregates affected

by clinging friend Asaka that clinging

is neither the same as the five

aggregates affected by clinging nor is

clinging something apart from the fight

of aggregates affected by clinging it is

the desire the lust in regard to the

five aggregates affected by clinging

that is the clinging there did you catch

that want it again okay we'll go through

the whole thing is that clinging the

same clinging as these five aggregates

affected by clinging or is the clinging

apart from the five aggregates affected

by clinging friend visakha that clinging

is neither the same as these five

aggregates affected by clinging nor is

clinging something apart from the five

aggregates affected by clinging it is

the desire and lust in regard to the

five aggregates affected by

claiming that is the clinging there

I'm seeing a lot of blank faces so it's

pointing to dependent origination

pointing to craving happening the

cleaning the lust and most of this our

desire is craving right yes it's

pointing its own so it's the craving

kept the craving a specter clinging it's

also saying the aggregates are not

automatically that's right they are not

automatically okay Ingram is more

stationary it's kind of love is rationed

it gets stuffed with it clean you see

that craving is the process too clingy

yeah pretty asian kind of the one of the

things that I've done in other suit is

when I run across the statement affected

by clinging the five aggregates affected

by clinging is I always stop and I say

it may or may not be affected by

clinging depending on how sharp your six

ours are shot what the six ours well how

sharp your awareness is you have the

choice of tickling or not to claim

always that's the volition in Buddhism

young when that comes up dating a

recognized clean you sure but if you

have a definition of great it can be

after you recognize or it can be before

yeah I eat Chinese minutes

something like that addiction would be

the next step that would be your

habitual tendency with that acting it

out and you say we are started that's

yeah we are stuck depending on the

sharpness and only until we learn yeah

until we learn to be able to observe how

earth hey yeah that means I'm doing the

clinging yes so the matrices not so easy

from those wha it takes practice no it

takes practice to be able to do it but

as you go deeper in your meditation it

does get easier so I don't understand

why you're from good sure the aggregates

and the clinging are not separate them

if you may or may not claim to cling to

the aggregates because the average

person doesn't see that as may or may

not they see it as cleaning they see it

as your concepts of or they're your

story about it's a way I n yeah the

average person doesn't have any

definition of craving doesn't have any

doesn't know that's the condition for

clean doesn't know what habitual

tendency is so without those definitions

you're totally caught in this it's so

fast those three so when she when she

sent to the sakha it's neither

that clinging is neither the same as the

five aggregates affected by clinging nor

is clinging something apart from the

five aggregates affected by things

happen that's really good because see

that's fuel for talking to Victor Rodia

about this again because we brought up

the question is respected by cleaning

and he went hmm you know but we had to

find other texts that pointed to that

you know that there's a choice no action

the other translation is clinging

aggregates right that's the other choice

for this translation is is really not

very good and Noah City manga that is

that that angle without any question

okay lady how does identity view come to

be here friend visakha an untaught

ordinary person who has no regard for

the noble ones and is unskilled and

undisciplined in their dama who has no

regard for true men and as an unskilled

and undisciplined in their Dhamma

regards forms as self or self as

possessed of material form or material

form as in self or self as in material

form he regards feeling itself or self

as possessed of feeling or feeling as

itself or self as in feeling he regards

percentage self or self as busy

by of pizzette of perception or

perception as in self or self as in

perception in regards formations as self

or self as possessed of formations or

formations as in self or self as

informations he regards consciousness as

self or self as possessed of

consciousness for consciousness as in

self or self as in consciousness that is

how identity view comes to be so it's

always trying to make one of the agri

whichever aggregate it is personal in

all of any of the different ways and

miss gets real tricky and this is how

the the brahmanas during the time the

Buddha got caught by making everything

God and God is in the way of most people

thinking is this permanent never

changing entity

and that really goes against what the

Buddha is showing us there is nothing

that's permanent ever we're going on

about a discussion about this she seems

to say that the four noble truths are

permanent I had that idea for about an

hour but it's not the four noble truths

are always around but they're not

recognized so in that way they're always

changing they rise the past away all

right I'm going prob about the bottom

you see if you say is in there are

Thurmond is in fact we objectify them

make it kind of an entity they are and

that's what I also feel is done it's

really done this Adonis the jhanas you

see there an entity but they are the

same light thing at four noble truths

they are approved in the motion of the

process oh yeah definitely definitely

then objectify means you owe you you

have a processor here someone rich

people as it has made it an object and

journey

19 kitchen lady now does identity view

not come to be here friends Asaka well

Todd Noble disciple who has regard for

the noble ones and his guild and

disciplined in their Dhamma who has

regard for true men and is killed and

disciplined in there download does not

regard material for a second or as

self-possessed of material form for

material form as in self herself as in

material form he does not regard feeling

herself herself as possessed or feeling

or feeling as in self or self as in

feeling he does not regard perception as

self or self as possessed of perception

or perception as in self or self as in

perception he does not regard formations

as self or self as possessed of

formations or formations as in self or

self as informations he does not regard

consciousness as self or self as

possessed of consciousness or self as in

consciousness or self as in where

consciousness as in self or self as in

consciousness excuse me that is how the

identity view does not come to be in

other words that is five aggregates not

affected by cleaning the Noble Eightfold

Path lady what is the Noble Eightfold

Path from the socket it is just this

noble eightfold path

that is harmonious perspective

harmonious imaging harmonious

communication armonia smooth and

harmonious lifestyle harmonious practice

harmonious observation and harmonious

collectiveness lady is the Noble

Eightfold Path condition or

unconditioned friend visakha the Noble

Eightfold Path is conditioned lady are

the three aggregates include included by

the Noble Eightfold Path or is the

Eightfold Path included by the three

aggregate the three aggregates are not

included in the Eightfold Path friend

visakha but the Noble Eightfold Path is

included by the three aggregates the

harmonious communication harmonious

movement and harmonious lifestyle these

states are included in the aggregate of

virtue harmonious practice harmonious

observation and harmonious

collectiveness these states are included

in the aggregate of collectiveness

harmonious perspective and harmonious

imaging these states are included in the

aggregate of wisdom lady this is as the

section on concentration lady what is

collectiveness what is the basis of

collectiveness what is the equipment of

collectiveness what is the development

of collectiveness unification of my

friend visakha is collected pneus the

four foundations of mindfulness are

based on are the basis of collectiveness

the four right kinds of striving are the

equipment of collectiveness the

repetition development and cultivation

of these same states is the development

of collectiveness there in didn't you

say that right kind is driving the same

is right ever yes so this is rather

interesting because it says the

unification of mind is collected pneus

the four foundations of mindfulness are

the basis of collectiveness which is

saying that the four foundations of

mindful mindfulness is talking about

states of drama

remember we did the bulk of the four

foundations of mindfulness a few days

back and you got to see how it was

always talking about the drown estate

how does the five aggregates work into

because the five aggregates are simply

the four foundations of mindfulness

threes three ingredients no whole

different areas where are getting about

time so what what is it what do you

think ok because it's ok the four

foundations of mindfulness is

essentially the basis for Jana yet but

we in the previous discussions last week

we had said that the five aggregates and

the four is a bison a saint are ya this

Asia blues and intelligently so but then

it's also saying that then the five

aggregates are the basis for a china

yeah are there like letting go of the

five aggregates of the basis for china

now but it's not letting go because when

you look at the chart wherever it

happens ok so they're they're basically

saying that they're they're the same

thing and these four four foundations of

mindfulness they arise while you're in

your practice and that would be the

basis for the foundations or for the

collective's here here cuz i always

thought the five agris with a base

ignorance because that's that's affected

by clean if you like creamy mac let's

see there that's the tricky part if it's

affected like okay okay hunting like

four nominations being the film nation

for Jonah if you look at the four

foundations of mindfulness on you does

it mean like if you examine them the

body as the body feeling as being like

oh and you see things as they actually

are that allows you to go in John is

that what you for course okay there's

some some translations that are changing

for foundations to say the body in the

body and the feeling in the feeling and

that is the basis for the choiceless

awareness it's pretty common terrible

thing yeah it doesn't the trace less

awareness doesn't really work because

there is that craving with whatever

arises and there's not seeing the

craving so you can let it go and your

mindfulness with choiceless awareness it

doesn't develop nearly as quickly as

coming back to an object to meditation

object meditation with your home base so

if you're just going from one thing that

arises to another thing to arise is that

to another

arises you're not having that you're not

practicing the six RS and you're not

coming back to your object of meditation

so you can see how it gets distracted

again ok so you never get to seem to get

an origination that one no ok formations

lady how many formations are there there

are three formations friend Asaka the

bodily formation the verbal formation

and the mental formation but lady what

is the bodily formation what is the

verbal formation what is the mental

formation in breathing and out breathing

friend visakha are the bodily formation

thinking and examining thought are the

verbal formation perception and feeling

are the mental formation but lady why

are in breathing and out breathing the

bodily formation why are thinking and

examining thought the verbal formation

why our perception and feeling the

mental formation friend visakha and

breathing and out breathing or bodily

these are states bound up with the body

that is why and breathing and out

breathing or bodily formations there are

other bodily formations outside of the

breath to when you start radiating

loving kindness there is the feeling

that is that it has to have a body in

order to feel so it's not only in and

breathing and out

first one apply a one thinks and

examines thought and subsequently one

breaks out into speech that is why

thinking and examining thought our

verbal formation perception and feeling

are mental these are states bound up

with mind that is why perception feeling

Farva mental formation the attainment of

cessation Lane how does the attainment

of cessation of perception and feeling

come to be friend visakha when a monk is

attaining the cessation of perception

and feeling it does not occur to him I

shall attain this the cessation of

perception and feeling sore I am

attaining the cessation of perception

and feeling or I have attained this

cessation of perception and feeling but

rather his mind is has previously

developed in such a way that it leads

him to that state leading when a monk is

attaining the cessation of perception

and feeling which state sees in him the

bodily formation verbal formation or the

mental formation friend isaka when a

monk is attaining the cessation of

perception and feeling first the verbal

formation ceases then the bodily

formation then the mental formation lady

how does emergence from the attainment

of the cessation of perception and

feeling come to be friend asaka when a

monk is emerging

from the attainment of the cessation of

perception and feeling it does not occur

to him I shall emerge from the

attainment of the cessation of

perception and feeling or I am emerging

from the internment of the cessation of

perception and feeling or I have emerged

from the attainment of the cessation of

perception and feeling but rather his

mind has previously been developed in

such a way that it leads to that state

so when perception and feeling cease

that will last for a period of time not

a long period of time and last 5 or 10

minutes something like that and then

when the perception and feeling arise

again that is it's like you had a truck

board and you clean the chalkboard off

and then when the perception and feeling

come back up you see the ignorance the

formations the consciousness you see the

ontology materiality and all of the rest

of dependent origination and then you

see how they cease and this doesn't

arise that won't arise when that won't

arise this doesn't right the clear

understanding of seeing dependent

origination in this way

is such a big understanding that your

mind goes oh wow and Nibhana occurs you

don't your mind doesn't really go oh wow

but it's it's that kind of an experience

I mean it is consciousness altering and

that's how Nibhana occurs now if you

have the slightest bit of attachment to

being unsure being afraid that will stop

this cessation of perception I'm feeling

from arising so you want to make sure

that your mind is completely open and

accepting of this state it's it can be

in subtle little I don't know if I

really want to do this or not and we

have to let that go guaranteed you'll

like it on the other side of this oh but

it's going to change me yes it will

you're going to have a lot more fun your

mind's going to be a lot more clear I'll

do to my dentist at the oh it's

fantastic

yesterday we live in it and that you

cannot see it and then that seeing those

anything that's that's the importance of

the cessation of perception and healing

and you get into that state with any of

those wavelengths no no right okay have

to let go all of that stuff you're down

the rabbit hole once you get in there

yeah that's kind of the reasons that the

mines that that sorry cooked i had was

kind of need to know and we usually say

sometimes the mines that of the person

is like a little two year old who's just

looking around the corner to see next no

no apprehension about what might be

there no desire to see what's there just

looking around the corner to see what's

next and if you can hold that frame of

mind and just go curiosity like it's

it's an adventure to see what this is

going to be you can you can do that sara

is sarah event where a person could have

cessation of perception and feeling and

coming out of it not sefa dependent

origination

I had never heard of it that is part of

the process of it and in seeing with

wisdom his tanks were destroyed in

wisdoms I'd same dependent origination

so there can't be even a slightest bit

of hesitation or anxiety about what's

going to happen if I do it there has to

be just that openness of saying let's

see what happens next it was interesting

because somebody showed up ones who

apparently had the experience but didn't

know anything about what they saw and

it's funny because I had asked him the

question about two weeks before this

person showed up to ask him what

happened so you know he didn't have any

idea where seen he could describe when

when I went to the suit is and I started

reading it his eyes got real wide and he

started going oh oh yeah yeah so in

enough an example where it can help into

a person that they have no idea what

this list that happened yeah well he

went through a change and he knew he

went through a change and he started

going to a lot of teachers and they

agreed he went through a change but they

couldn't explain it was he meditating

kind of on its own form I mean I kind of

got the feeling that he was he would

stone a professor at Tulane University

he was in the booth Studies department

so he had exposure to a lot of different

types of things you know and he was some

I can't remember what he told us he was

practicing when this happened but it

wasn't harsh I remember it wasn't hirsch

so it was some kind of a practical into

this but when he saw that he saw the

legs he could not get an explanation of

what this was from any teachers until he

came to Bondi and then he explained what

it was and I was there when he was

explaining it and his eyes just really

just he knew precisely that's what this

was all about and then he staked her I

think it was a week or two weeks to get

into what all of this and it came

together really fast for him his

understanding of how young man that came

to bow to you about four years ago five

years ago me and you believe is that

long five or six years back he showed up

in the winter time to talk to bonte

about what had happened to him

personally and what he had seen and he

saw the twelve links when he came out of

cessation he saw them go up and go down

but he had didn't understand he had no

definitions no training and all for a

reference no frame of reference yeah and

so he didn't know what it was and when

Monty gave my experience then he

recognized it after yet the internet

the exhibition's bring together really

fast when I'm in just a few days he

could understand all this stuff came

together to him you know really clearly

and he went through a personality shift

who knew that so there can't be the

slightest hesitation for any reason at

all my life is going to change after

this that this happens now what's going

to happen well yes it will your modern

mind is going to be so much more clear

when I was going to read so much more

alert it could also how together we are

home the legs is recorded at the white

cast treated they go first to understand

everything so so intellectualizing to

such an extent that the

intellectualization somehow false often

see experience appearance yes and that

happens that can happen for the first

stage of enlightenment and the second

stage but not the high ratings and that

can happen through meditation to thank

make sense to me truth after after a

person has a path knowledge they still

have to work for the fruition on it here

and when the fruition knowledge comes

then they have a sense of what stage of

enlightenment they are experiencing and

we'll go into that at another time in a

couple of days there i have another suit

that will talk about

okay lady when a monk is emerging from

the attainment of cessation of

perception and feeling which date arises

first in him the bodily formation verbal

formation or mental formation friend

Masako when a monk is emerged from the

attainment of the cessation of

perception and feeling first the mental

formation arises then the bodily

formation then the verbal formation lady

when a monk has emerged from the

attainment of the cessation of

perception and feeling how many kinds of

contact touchram bread bussaco when a

monk has emerged from the attainment of

perception and fielder cessation of

perception and feeling three kinds of

contact touch him voidness contact

cyclist assigned lyst contact and

desireless contact I want to see what be

Kapoor be said about those

the first aid of consciousness to arise

on emerging from the cessation is that

of fruition attainment no that's not

right that is taken from the duty maaga

and and avi dama both and it is not

correct there is a belief that once you

have the path knowledge there's there's

17 different parts of the thought moment

okay and there are seven Juwanna moments

and you attain nirvana in one of those

seven Joanna moments and they have the

belief that the next job on a moment is

the fruition and that's just not right

you wouldn't know that you had fruition

if it happened that fast and there are

people that will have the path knowledge

for a period of time before they get the

relation knowledge so what he's saying

here I think we have to let it go

it said avoid Nestle firm sadness and

desire of us to buy the desire that's

fine well there's there's not a lot

happening in your mind I mean there is

various consciousness and you're aware

but there's not going to be a whole lot

of thoughts arising in your mind at

first why couldn't that we dis research

at ugliness when you come out the

meanest of the craving that boyish when

you go back to 121 and look at the

definition of Moya's boy list of the

Creighton clean image antennas and I

think we won't have to let that go for a

little while that doesn't feel right

research yeah its research time okay

lady when a monk has emerged from the

attainment of the cessation of

perception and feeling too what does is

mine inclined to what does it mean to

what does it end Brenda soccer when a

mock has emerged from the attainment of

the cessation of perception and feeling

his mind inclines to seclusion leans to

seclusion tends to seclusion for a

little while it's such a major release

of tensions and tightness 'as that the

joy that arises is really strong you

will feel it in every cell in your body

there's a relief and if you happen to

attain that and you come and tell me you

attain it and I say good now go sit

that's less than you feel like doing but

if you do it there's great lessons that

you'll you'll you'll have from six ah

ring and letting it go and allowing the

feeling to be there your mind will have

the opportunity to go in deeper again

and you can have the fruition very

quickly it depends on the conditions so

this this kind of experience is what

we're working for

is it attainable in this lifetime

absolutely do you have to be a month to

get it no you don't do you have to be a

monk after you get it maybe it depends

on what happens feeling lady how many

kinds of feeling are there there are

three kinds of feeling pleasant feeling

painful feeling and neither painful more

pleasant feeling but lady what is

pleasant feeling what is painful feeling

what is neither painful more pleasant

feeling Brenda Socko whatever is felt

bodily or mentally as pleasant and

soothing is pleasant feeling whatever is

felt bodily or mentally as painful feel

painful memory is painful feeling

whatever is felt bodily and mentally as

neither soothing nor hurry is neither

painful nor pleasant feeling lady what

is pleasant feeling what is painful

feeling in regard to pleasant feeling

what is painful feeling and what is

pleasant feeling in regard to painful

feeling what is pleasant feeling and

what is painful feeling in regard to

neither painful nor pleasant feeling

here Fred visakha pleasant feeling is

pleasant when it persists and painful

when it changes painful feeling is

painful when it persists and pleasant

when it changes neither painful more

pleasant feeling is pleasant when there

is knowledge of it and painful when

there

is no knowledge of it why is it painful

when there is no knowledge of neither

perception our neither pain nor pleasant

feeling cause it bothers people in it

nags say that again okay neither painful

nor pleasant feeling is pleasant when

there is knowledge of it and painful

when there is no knowledge of it why is

it painful when there is no knowledge of

neither painful unpleasant yeah cuz it's

the ignorance or it's delusional that's

your there's a difference between

equanimity neither pleasant they're

welcome and come on just in between

different surly and neutral or

indifference and difference in

difference in the difference as I am

attached to and that's what we're

talking about here that's why it would

be painful if there is no knowledge of

it yeah it's one of the big mistakes

that is that equanimity they think is

indifference and equanimity is not

indifference it's not then it's much

bigger than okay we have some underlying

tendencies lady what underlying does

that mean that there's allowance that's

the allowance method is the same now I

didn't hear the word allowance allowing

us allow it to be ya know Craig

ok that's what I'm going to see in

differences in difference on saying

again to that who cares okay thank you

okay what underlying tendency underlies

pleasant feeling what underlying

tendency underlies painful feeling what

underlying tendency underlies neither

painful nor pleasant feeling Brenda

Sokka the underlying tendency to lust

underlies pleasant feeling that means

the potential for lust is there when

there is pleasant feeling the underlying

tendency to aversion underlies painful

feeling painful feeling arises the first

thing your mind wants to do get rid of

it we should wait not have it around for

you the underlying tendency to ignorance

underlies neither painful more pleasant

feeling what is ignorance in the Four

Noble Truths and that's the that's the

underlying tendency to a difference lady

does the underlying tendency to lust

underlie all pleasant feeling does the

underlying tendency to aversion underlie

all painful feeling there's the

underlying tendency to ignorance

underlie all painful at all neither

painful more pleasant feeling friend

visakha the underlying tendency to lust

does not underlie all painful feelings

all pink pleasant feeling excuse me the

underlying tendency to aversion does not

underlie all painful feeling the

underlying 10

the ignorance does not underlie all

neither painful more pleasant you lady

what should be abandoned in regard to

pleasant feeling what should be

abandoned in regard to painful feeling

what should be abandoned in regard to

neither painful more pleasant feeling

here V Saco the underlying tendency to

lust should be abandoned in regard to

paint pleasant feeling the underlying

tendency to aversion should be abandoned

in regard to painful feeling the

underlying tendency to ignorance should

be abandoned in regard to neither

painful nor pleasant feeling lady does

the underlying tendency to lust have to

be abandoned in regard to all pleasant

feeling does the underlying tendency to

aversion have to be abandoned in regard

to all painful feeling does the

underlying tendency to ignorance have to

be abandoned in regard to all painful

nor pleasant feeling friend vishakha the

underlying tendency does not to lust

does not have to be abandoned in regard

to all pleasant feeling the underlying

tendency to aversion does not have to be

abandoned in regard to all painful

feeling the underlying tendency to

ignorance does not have to be abandoned

in regard to all neither painful more

pleasant feeling here Fred visakha quite

secluded from sensual pleasures secluded

from unwholesome states a monk enters

upon n abides in the first Rana which is

accompanied by thinking and examining

thought with joy and

measure and happiness born of seclusion

with that he abandons lust and the

underlying tendency to lust does not lie

does not underlie that so hopefully not

all pleasant feeling means that has must

arise in it when you get into a drana at

that time there is no lust or a tendency

for lust to arrive at that time here a

month considers thus when shall I enter

upon and abide in that base that the

noble ones now enter upon and abide in

in one who thus generates a longing for

the supreme liberation grief arises and

with that longing as condition with that

he abandons aversion the underlying

tendency to aversion does not lie within

that what a bed just say

and we'll do it again

here a monk considers thus when shall I

enter upon and abide in that base that

the noble ones now enter upon and abide

in in one who thus generates a longing

for supreme liberation brief arises and

with that longing as condition with that

he abandons aversion the underlying

tendency to aversion does not underlie

that it's basically saying that if

you're longing for it you can't get

there that's right your diet on your

desire is going to keep you from getting

there or in other words that's where

this lines that comes in where you just

the two-year-old doesn't have any desire

for anything to be around the corner

he's just looking you know what do you

watch it is that because the abortion is

to the present moment to being the

inversion is not having what you want

when you want it

and doesn't it that gets confirmed in 36

to where he figured out pleasurable

moments are permitted permitted in

figured that out in machine from the

kind number 36 up to that point with all

his practices he thought no pleasure was

allowed at all as an aesthetic none so

he couldn't do this kind of a where

Jonna this later John and because he had

to he had to kind of torture himself

with what he was doing the way they were

doing everything and he figured that out

in that that was actually a major

insight very major if not all pleasant

feeling has less timing that has left

underneath it you're the job and you're

enjoying it want to stay some bad luck

if you're enjoying it and wanted to stay

always like that so that's not even

because when you're in a Jonah your mind

is very pure and the way that it becomes

pure is by not having craving at that

time if you have the desire to keep that

Jonah all of a sudden you're not in the

drama anymore and you have I am that

attached to that desire but you also can

experiencing this all must get you don't

look down

jonna for experiencing Pleasant feelings

without dust right yes as long as

there's not the identification with them

about the craving understanding for

those processes is sometimes enough to

experiencing everything every time you

certainly can that's nothing it

certainly can be but that's one of the

reasons I tell people when they get into

a drama and they experience the joy that

they 6r the joy they don't try to make

the joy last longer or try to hold on to

it in any way you six are and you allow

the joy to be there and come back to

your object of meditation that's the way

to have it last longer it's plain

lovingly accepting the present moment

exactly as it is so the student comes

and he goes tomorrow and he says I'm

going to have another session just like

yesterday and it won't work

why doesn't it work because the avenging

craving it is in them Andrew it causes

restlessness to arise because you start

trying to work it doesn't come so you

start leaning out of the present moment

a little bit more trying to make it come

and all of a sudden you're attacked by

restlessness I think also what you're

doing tues you're judging that present

moment compared to what the past was

right and in that process you're pushing

from the present moment up away and it's

happening at a very subtle level so

you're never really opening to what's

happened so to jump ahead of yourself

yeah and that is a separation right

there anyway

here with the abandoning of pleasure and

pain with the previous disappearance of

joy brief among enters upon and abides

in the fourth drama which has neither

pain nor pleasure and purity of

mindfulness dude equanimity with that he

abandons ignorance and the underlying

tendency of ignorance does not underlie

that so we're talking about getting into

equanimity instead of indifference and

that then the ignorance doesn't underlie

that counterparts lady what is the

counterpart of pleasant feeling when

visakha painful feeling is a counterpart

of pleasant feeling what is the

counterpart of pleasant feeling or

excuse me painful feeling pleasant

feeling is a counterpart of painful

feeling what is the counterpart of

neither painful nor pleasant feeling

ignorance is the counterpart of neither

painful more pleasant feeling what is

the counterpart of ignorance true

knowledge is the counterpart of

ignorance what is the counterpart of

true knowledge deliverance is the

counterpart of true knowledge what is

the counterpart of deliverance Nevada is

the counterpart of deliverance lady what

is the counterpart of Nevada friend

visakha you've pushed this line of

questioning too far you were not able to

grasp the limit of the questions for the

holy life friend visakha is grounded

upon nirvana culminates in Nibhana ends

in Nibhana if you wish Fred Visakha go

to the blessed one and ask him about

the meaning of this as the blessed one

explains it to you you should remember

it then the lay follower visakha having

delighted and rejoiced in the Baku need

uh Medina's words rose from his seat and

after paying homage to him keeping him

on the right he went to the Blessed One

after paying homage to him he sat down

at one side and told the Blessed One his

entire conversation with the Baku need

al-madinah when he finished speaking the

Blessed One told him the bhikkhu Donna

Dina is wise Busacca arm the Baku need a

medina is why excuse me the Baku need

al-madinah has great wisdom if you had

asked me the meaning of this I would

have explained it to you in the same way

that the Baku need a medina has

explained it such is its meaning and so

you should remember it that is what the

Blessed One said the lay follower risako

was satisfied and delighted in the

Blessed ones words that is high praise

coming from the woods and he does that

not only with da Medina he also does it

with some monks and says that that's

exactly this the right way to say it and

I couldn't have said it any better yes

have a question um she became a Baku

knee but he continued to be a late

follower but he was a monitor on agami

so you could still be a lay person being

a nun gotta go so when you were talking

about going through the attainment of

perception and non perception

the attainment yeah he said that one

would would become a monk maybe maybe

yeah that's what I mean it can be that

you would become a nun got me or you

would become an hour out well I seen are

hot thank you to come on then you would

be coming to be goody or as it says in

the suit does you would die within seven

days because you need the purity of the

Sangha and they're armed there are

people that chose to die after seven

days the the Buddha's father he was very

ill and he became in our hot and he said

that's enough I don't want any more in

and he died as a layman he didn't take

the big on ropes but I thought there's a

problem about the cooney's because of

the order is no don't worry about your

power ranger you give their we'll talk

conundrum well but it's not something to

be afraid of at all the advantages of

becoming

and our hot are really really big

because the clarity of your mind means

that there is no ignorance ever arising

in your mind again and that's a big one

you know and the advantages of what what

are hot do it depends on their personal

Bend some of them become teachers and

some of them don't but they always wind

up helping people what is an eject

you're not ready to such a bookkeeper

hey you say there is or what it's eight

so yes definitely anything sensitive

not so sensitive perceive that aviation

of that your purity but you have to go

through a fruition to attain one of

those states choice if you just said

path there is no real personality

development with the path not my

personality development happens at fruit

that's like at fruition I'd manga and it

can happen at any time I mean you can be

washing the dishes or mowing the lawn or

doing whatever and you'll start to feel

that your mind is just going deep and

you say okay and then go sit down for a

little while watch what's happening and

then it will happen by itself but the

thing is you have to really be careful

after the path knowledge to keep your

sets doors that not be attached to your

sense doors and you need to be careful

with what your mind is doing I mean

there can be a tendency for some people

to say I've already attained this I

don't care i can go out and do anything

and they can actually never have the

parishioner right because of that that

that is a problem so they're that ones

that did that talk

you can lose the attainment it talks

about how you can have the attainment

and lose the pain just because of that

because of not having a commission and

then we talk about the different

attainments and how that person still

has work to do and that what he means is

the path I'll be I'm sorry everybody has

work to do until they become in arad

with the fruition now do you want to ask

me whether I know whether a person's

become our hot or a non egami haven't

got a clue yeah well that things happen

by itself so essentially when you have

the cessation of perception of feeling

you would have to you had your of the

path of that and then there's the

fruition of that look at each stage of

the enlightenment process so it's

conceivable that you could have half

like MSA knowledge or Padma tainment but

you can die in the process and what

would happen with that hurry is there

anything the suit is hit let's nap you

can be kinda talks about

and if if you died fairly quickly after

the attainment of path the fruition

knowledge would occur before you died

dude right before you died and this this

can happen fast it is not necessarily

going to be fast if you'd like it how

quick you might lose hit a 10 because

you said is a suit of it said you you

can lose your head if it happens that

you would die in the next day you still

have your stuff stores are still being

guarded it I mean it takes a while to

wear that where that down and get back

to quote the way you were so this year

like that does this who does actually

have a time frame site between Pam you

know so it could be anywhere from or

years to the consent days days or

seconds it depends on your karma at the

time that you can lose the Hat you can

lose now at acknowledge if you indulge

in your sense pleasures and you don't

you can still break the precepts nice

like that okay but if you were to die

that if you were to die and you broke

the precepts and you didn't watch your

son stores that attainment would do not

much good would you get the provision

yes so you can't party no the certified

Bernama yelling I mean there may be an

inclination party but Allah is probably

not going to have that arising craving

or thing happening so you're a hot it's

like a good there's no personality

development until the fruition occurs

you still have been in dental of the

bettors arising and if you don't take

care of that in a wholesome way then

you're hurting yourself very deeply

this is I think maybe you answered it

there frooition knowledge is just

kidding I don't I don't know what

farisha knowledge is I guess it gives

you you have this process is attainment

right and then all the paths and you

have to have path and fruition knowledge

for the personality development to occur

and the personality development would be

getting rid of either five fetters or

ten fetters depending on some remember

sometimes they talk about the eight

kinds of individuals the eight kinds of

it's actually a kind containment there's

not for there's eight okay so it's the

soda pond and the soda pond or through

ition and then the socket ago me and

it's not going to go in with permission

and then the IDA going with the UH

Negaunee fruition and the airlock with

the arm fought for permission so there's

the eight kinds of individuals and

Humpty so if you were a thought the pot

in this lifetime and your died and

you're born as a human are you in autumn

excellent apologia trivialize know that

you would you would remember that

experience when you're very young would

come in a dream and you would know

beyond any doubt that you are sort of

what is the sort of first step of

enlightenment and you would come back no

less or no lower than a human being and

you would you can come back as many as

seven times before you would attain are

a trip and apparently but you can be

reborn in a heavenly realm and attain

nirvana apparently bottom from there

and we'll talk more about that in a

couple of days I'll bring out the suta

and show you where it says this okay

yeah good okay the true Samaritan

basically once be suffering free and the

fear struck fearless be maybe you should

all breathe inside relief may all be

share this merit that we have thus

acquired with your acquisition of all

kinds of happiness may be insanity space

under the name is a Naga so many power

is merit alone they all protect with

disposition

you