Day 8 May Retreat MN 22 'The Simile of the Snake' with Delson Armstrong-JfniW06uEgY.en.vtt.txt

From: https://youtube.com/watch?v=JfniW06uEgY

Context: Throughout this transcript, Bhante Vimalaramsi is the speaker unless otherwise indicated.

[Music]

here we are

so we're going to read from majim nikaya

22 allah got to allah

the simile of the snake

that's have i heard on one occasion the

blessed one was living at savathi in

jetta's grove ana dependicus park

now on that occasion a pernicious view

had arisen in a biku named arita

formerly of the vulture killers thus

as i understand the dhamma taught by the

blessed one

those things called obstructions by the

blessed one are not able to obstruct one

who engages in them

this is a deeply pernicious view

because what are obstructions

obstructions are hindrances

central pleasures

so what he's saying is

that

those things called obstructions

by the blessed one are not able to

obstruct one who engages in them

if you engage in a hindrance

does it continue to hinder your mind

if you engage in sensual pleasures

if you identify with them

doesn't it cause craving

doesn't it cause aversion

so his understanding

really is that

you know once you are a monastic once

you know the dharma

then even if you have to deal with

hindrances

even if you have to deal with sensual

pleasures in particular

they are not going to affect you if you

engage in them engage here is the

operative word

engage means to actually

interact with them to

interact with them with a sense of self

to interact with them

with craving or aversion or whatever it

might be

several bikus having heard about this

went to the biku arita and asked him

friend areta

is it true that such a pernicious view

has arisen in you

exactly so friends

as i understand the dhamma taught by the

blessed one

those things called obstructions by the

blessed one

are not able to obstruct one who engages

in them

then these beakers designed to detach

him from that pernicious view

pressed and questioned and cross

questioned him thus

friend arita do not say so do not

misrepresent the blessed one it is not

good to misrepresent the blessed one the

blessed one would not speak thus

for in many ways the blessed one has

stated how obstructive things are

obstructions

and how they are able to obstruct one

who engages in them

the blessed one has stated that sensual

pleasures provide little gratification

much suffering and despair

and that the danger in them is still

with the simile of the skeleton with the

simile of the piece of meat with the

simile of the grass torch with the

simile of the pit of coals

with the simile of the dream with the

simile of the borrowed goods with the

simile of fruits on a tree with the

simile of the butcher's knife and block

with the simile of the sword stake with

the simile of the snake's head the

blessed one has stated that sensual

pleasures provide little gratification

mud suffering and despair and that the

danger in them is still more

yet although pressed and questioned and

cross-questioned by those bikus in this

way

the biku arita formerly of the vulture

killers

still abstinently adhere to that

pernicious view

and continue to insist upon it

since the beakers were unable to detach

him from that pernicious view

they went to the blessed one and after

paying homage to him they sat down at

one side and told him all that had

occurred adding

venerable sir since we could not detach

the biku aretha

formerly of the vulture cares

from this pernicious view we have

reported this matter to the blessed one

then the blessed one addressed a certain

bikru thus

kambiku tell the bhikkhu arita formerly

of the vulture killers in my name that

the teacher calls him

yes

sir he replied and went to the bhikkhu

arita and told him

the teacher calls you friend areeta

yes friend he replied and he went to the

blessed one and after paying homage to

him sat down at one side the blessed one

then asked him arita is it true that the

following pernicious view has arisen in

you

as i understand

the dhamma taught by the blessed one

those things called obstructions by the

blessed one are not able to obstruct one

who engages in them

exactly so venerable sir as i understand

the dharma taught by the blessed one

those things called obstructions by the

blessed one are not able to obstruct one

who engages in them

so what does the blessed one say

misguided man

not good

to whom have you ever known me to teach

the dhamma in that way

misguided man have i not stated in many

ways

how obstructive things are obstructions

and how they are able to obstruct one

who engages in them

i have stated that sensual pleasures

provide little gratification

much suffering and despair

and that the danger in them is still

with the simile of the skeleton with the

simile of the piece of meat with the

simile of the grass torch with a simile

of the pit of coals with a simile of the

dream with the simile of the borrowed

goods with the simile of fruits on a

tree

with the simile of the butcher's knife

and block with the simile of the sword

stake with the simile of the snake's

head i have stated that central

pleasures provide little gratification

much suffering and despair and that the

danger in them is still more

but you get misguided man by your wrong

grasp have misrepresented us

injured yourself and stored up much

demerit for this will lead to your harm

and suffering for a long time

then the blessed one addressed the bikus

thus

bikus what do you think as the biku

arvita formerly of the vulture killers

kindle even a spark of wisdom in this

dhamma and discipline

how could he venerable sir

no venerable sin

when this was said biku arita formerly

of the vulture killer sat silent

dismayed with shoulders drooping and

head down

glum and without response

then knowing this the blessed one told

him

misguided man you will be recognized by

your pernicious view i shall question

the beakers on this matter

when the blessed one addressed the

because thus because do you understand

the dharma taught by me as this spiku

irita formerly of the vulture pillars

does

when by his wrong grasp he misrepresents

injures himself and stores up much to

merit

with a question like that you better say

no venerable sir for in many ways the

blessed one has stated how obstructive

things are obstructions

and how they are able to obstruct one

who engages in them

the blessed one has stated that central

pleasures provide little gratification

much despair much suffering and despair

and that the danger in them is still

with the simile of the skeleton and so

on the blessed one has stated

that the danger in them is still more

good because it is good that you

understand the dharma by me thus

for in many ways i have stated how

obstructive things are obstructive

and how they are able to obstruct one

who engages in them i have stated that

central pleasures provide little

gratification

much suffering and despair and that the

danger in them is still more

with the simile of the skeleton and so

on i have stated

that the danger in them is still more

but this biku arita formerly of the

vulture killers by his wrong grasp

misrepresents us

injures himself and stores up much

demerit for this will lead to his this

misguided man's harm and suffering for a

long time

because that one can engage in central

pleasures without sensual desires

without perceptions of sensual desire

without thoughts of sensual desire

that is impossible

here

the buddha is saying remember a couple

of days ago we talked about how the

buddha said it's not the central

pleasures themselves

that's the problem it's the lustful

intention

the craving

so the operative word here is engage

that one can engage in sensual pleasures

that one can

identify with them

without sensual desires

without perceptions of sensual desire

without thoughts of sensual desire that

is impossible

here because some misguided men learn

the dhamma discourses

stanzas expositions versus exclamations

sayings

birth stories marvels and answers to

questions but having learned the dharma

they do not examine the meaning of those

teachings with wisdom

not examining the meaning of those

teachings with wisdom they do not gain a

reflective acceptance of them

what does it mean

to examine and examine the meaning of

those teachings with wisdom

it means to apply the teachings it means

to actually do the teachings and see for

yourself if this works

and then once you see for yourself

confirm if your experiences match with

the suttas

when you first read the suttas without

any experience at all

you really do need a code breaker you

really need something because when you

start reading it there's so much there

there's so much dense information over

there

right

but there's no way for you to make sense

of it but once you actually have someone

who can guide you and someone who's

walked the path someone who can lead you

and say here are the signposts

here's what to do here's the suggestion

here's the advice here's the

recommendation and you follow that and

see for yourself and then walk the path

and then you go back to the sudos

you

recognize what the suthers are talking

about oh this is what they mean by the

first genre this is what they mean by

craving this is what they mean by

dependent origination this is what they

mean by

clinging this is what they mean by

contact and feeling and perception and

so on

so instead of that they learn the dhamma

only for the sake of criticizing others

and for winning in debates and they do

not experience the good for the sake of

which they learn the dhamma

those teachings being wrongly grasped by

them

conduce to their harm and suffering for

a long time

why is that because of the wrong grasp

of those teachings

so they learn the dhamma that is to say

they learn it at face value

my teacher told me this and so i'm going

to just repeat what my teacher told me

not really actually do it or

look at what they're saying and actually

try to apply it

so the does say so and so so i've heard

so i will just take that at face value

instead of actually doing it and then

what happens

you become a dhamma defender you start

see if other people are criticizing your

dharma quote unquote your dharma

and then you start to get offended by it

and you start to criticize them and then

you go into debates and arguments

no this dhamma is right that dominant is

wrong what you're saying is wrong you're

stupid i'm right and all of these other

things happen and what does that lead to

that leads to further aversion that

leads to clinging that leads to

mental proliferation that leads to

quarrels

sometimes even violence this is the

state of the world that we live in

for the last

how many every fields

suppose a man needing a snake seeking a

snake

wandering in search of a snake

i wonder when you would need a snake

but anyway

saw a large snake and grasped it grasped

its coils or its tails

it would turn back on him and bite his

hand or his arm or one of his limbs

and because of that he would come to

death or deadly suffering

why is that because of his wrong grasp

of the snake

so too here some misguided men learn the

dharma

and because of the wrong grasp of those

teachings they suffer

here because some clansmen learn the

dhamma and having learned the dharma

they examine they examine the meaning of

those teachings with wisdom

when he says wisdom what does that mean

wisdom is the product of samadhi

sila

samadhi

which means here is somebody who has

actually walked the path here is

somebody who has actually followed the

precepts

somebody who's actually done right for

you right intention right speech right

action right livelihood who's applied

right effort understood right

mindfulness and had light collectedness

leading to samadhi

which then leads to insight and wisdom

examining the meaning of those teachings

with wisdom they gain a reflective

acceptance of them they do not learn the

dhamma for the sake of criticizing

others and for winning in debates

and they experience the good for the

sake of which they learn the dhamma

those teachings being rightly grasped by

them conduce their welfare and happiness

for a long time

why is that

because of the right grasp of those

teachings

suppose a man needing a snake seeking a

snake wandering in search of a snake

saw a large snake and caught it rightly

with a cleft stick

and having done so grasp it rightly by

the neck

then although the snake might wrap its

coils round his hand

or his arm or his limbs still he would

not come to death with deadly suffering

because of that

why is that because of his right grasp

of the snake

so too

here some classmen learn the dharma

because of their right grasp of those

teachings

therefore because

when you understand the meaning of my

statements

remember it accordingly

and when you do not understand the

meaning of my statements then ask your

ask either me about it or those because

who are wise

ask those who have walked the path

if you have some doubts if you have some

clarifications required

ask as many questions as you can

right

obviously it's still limited to three

that's a pretty serious indictment of

misinterpretation

yes right

you're gonna die

right

well

looking at the wrong view of the

teachings you could say that he's

talking about concentration

and what happened before and how

dangerous it can be yeah

yeah

it can lead to a lot of suffering it can

lead to psychosis in some cases it can

lead to a lot of

you know

very painful processes

and then ultimately having wrong view

where does that take you

suffer it takes you to suffer homeless

yes that whole mass of suffering

because i shall show you how the dharma

is similar to a raft being for the

purpose of crossing over

not for the purpose of grasping

listen and attend closely to what i

shall say

yes venerable sir the beakers replied

the blessed one said this

because suppose a man in the course of a

journey saw a great expanse of water

whose near shore was dangerous and

fearful and whose further shore was safe

and free from fear

but there was no ferry boat or bridge

for going to the far shore

then he thought

there is this great expanse of water

whose near shore is dangerous and

fearful and whose further shore is safe

and free from fear

but there is no fairy boat or bridge for

going to the far shore

suppose i collect grass twigs branches

and leaves and bind them together into a

raft and supported by the raft and

making an effort with my hands and feet

i got safely across to the far shore

and then the man collected grass twigs

branches and leaves and bound them

together into a raft and supported by

the raft and making an effort with his

hands and feet he got safely across to

the far shore

then when he had got across and had

arrived at the far shore he might think

thus

this wrath has been very helpful to me

since supported by it and making an

effort with my hands and feet i got

safely across to the far shore

suppose i were to hoist it on my head or

load it on my shoulder and then go

wherever i want

now because what do you think by doing

so would that man be doing what should

be done with that raft

no venerable sir

by doing what would that man be doing

what should be done with that round

here because when that man got across

and had arrived by at the far shore he

might think thus

this raft has been very helpful to me

since supported by it and making an

effort with my hands and feet i got

safely across to the far shore

suppose i were to haul it onto the dry

land or set it adrift in the water and

then go wherever i wanted

now because it is by doing so that the

man would be doing what should be done

with that raft

so i have shown you how the dhamma is

similar to a raft

being for the purpose of crossing over

not for the purpose of grasping

because when you know the dharma to be

similar to a raft you should abandon

even the teachings

how much more so things

contrary to the teachings

how could the buddha say that

you should abandon the teachings

is he saying that or is he saying

abandon your

attachment

to abandon the clinging to the doubt

you follow the eightfold path you

utilize the eightfold path

you use it as a raft to get to the far

shore

to experience

and realize here and now nibana

the end of

suffering but once you experience the

end of suffering you use you have to use

the path until you come to a point

where all craving has gone

all conceit has gone

all wrong views have gone all ignorance

is gone

what's that what does that mean what

that means that the mind now is fully

liberated

that fully liberated mind automatically

by default follows the eightfold path

without second thoughts just

automatically

that mind has right view right intention

speaks with right speech

acts with right action

has right livelihood

is effortless in the right effort

is mindful all the time and is collected

whenever they want meaning can go into

any genre into cessation whatever it

might be

but do they grasp onto that with pride

do they say i have achieved this

and therefore this is the right way

and you should practice it too

because this is the only way out

sure it might be all of those things

sure it is all of those things but what

uses it to use the dharma in that way

so you abandon the clinging to the

dhamma abandon the pride of the dhamma

abandon

the attachment to the time

so it's not like you abandon the

eightfold path

you're always using it until it becomes

your nature

because there are these things these six

standpoints for views what are the six

here because an untaught ordinary this

uh person

who has no regard for noble ones and is

unskilled and undisciplined in their

dhamma

who has no regard for true men and is

unskilled and undisciplined in their

tama regards material form thus

this is mine this i am this is myself

he regards feeling thus

this is mine this i am this is myself

he regards perception thus

this is mine this i am this is myself

he regards formations thus this is mine

this i am this is myself

he regards what is seen heard sensed

cognized encountered sought mentally

pondered thus

this is my this i am

this is myself

and this standpoint for views namely

that which is the self is the world

after death

i shall be permanent everlasting

eternal not subject to change

i shall endure as long as eternity

this too he regards thus

this is mine this i am this is myself

so here there is someone

who considers these five aggregates or

one of these five aggregates as this is

mine this i am this is myself another

wednesday in other words they take them

personally

they identify with the five aggregates

and then there is a view

which says

that which is the self is the world

this is the atman brahman idea

the non-dual idea

the idea that there is here a soul

and there is out there in existence

and the soul and the universe the soul

and existence

are one and the same

and the universe is infinite and so am i

ultimately being the self

athman the self

brahman the substratum of the universe

which is all-pervading

source of happiness which is there for

eternity

this is the view that they have

but in having that view they think that

after death

i shall be permanent everlasting eternal

not subject to change

and they take that view as mine as i am

as myself

so whenever they do this they equate one

or more of the five aggregates as some

kind of

eternal

soul

as some kind of eternal spirit or some

kind of eternal identity

and because of that they have

wrong view

because

the understanding is

all five aggregates are impermanent

and that which is impermanent

is liable to cause suffering

and therefore it can't be considered as

me mine or myself

because a well-taught noble disciple

who has regard for noble ones and is

skilled and disciplined in their dharma

who has regard for true men

and is skilled and disciplined in their

dhamma regards material form thus

this is not mine this i am not this is

not myself

he regards feeling thus

this is not mine this i am not this is

not myself

he regards perception thus

this is not mine this i am not this is

not myself

he regards formations thus this is not

mine this i am not

this is not myself he regards what is

seen

heard sensed

cognized encountered

mentally pondered thus

this is not mine

this i am not this is not myself

and this standpoint for views namely

that which is the self is the world

after death i shall be impermanent

everlasting eternal not subject to

change i shall endure as long as

eternity

this too he regards thus this is not

mine this i am not this is not

myself

since he regards him thus he is not

agitated about what is non-existent

so he doesn't even have that view that

that which is the self is the world

after death i shall be permanent

everlasting eternal not subject to

change i shall endure as long as

eternity

he doesn't regard any of the five

aggregates itself and he doesn't regard

even this view nor does he identify with

any of you ultimately

and because of that

since he regards them thus he is not

agitated about what is non-existent

in other words that which is considered

self

you can't really pinpoint

because that is all impermanent

everything that is conditioned is

impermanent

and is a liable to cause suffering and

therefore cannot be considered self

so how can you have agitation about that

only when you identify as self and think

that the self is existent is there

something to be agitated about

but if it doesn't exist

if it's non-existent

why worry why have anxiety about that

when you truly see this

when you truly see that there is

no permanent

self

and you understand it

as it is right here and now

through the five aggregates when you

understand and let go of the clinging to

the five aggregates

then you won't have any restlessness at

all arise

because the five

higher feathers that are still present

that is the restlessness

the conceit

the craving for genre craving for

formless realms

and the ignorance these are the five

higher feathers

that prevent you from

crossing all the way

into our hardship

the restlessness the craving for genre

and the creating for formless

attainments

these three are dependent upon conceit

and conceit

arises whenever there is an

identification

with the five aggregates

when you let go of the conceit

everything else falls like a house of

cards

when you let go of the identification

will restlessness arise

what is there to be restless about

when you let go of conceit who is it

that wants jonah who is it that wants

the formless attainments

that idea completely goes away so

there's no more craving for that

there's no more craving for existence or

non-existence

and of course when when ignorance is

gone one knows completely the four noble

truths

so once you know that completely then

ignorance is gone you see

the link's independent origination

clearly

you understand them clearly you

understand the impersonal nature of all

things

you see for yourself how the vulnerable

truths are there present in every moment

when this was said a certain beak who

asked the blessed one

venerable sir can there be agitation

about what is non-existent

externally

there can be beku the blessed one said

here become someone thinks thus alas i

had it

alas i have it no longer alas may i have

alas i do not get it

then he sorrows grieves and laments he

weeps beating his breast and becomes

distraught

that is how there is agitation

about what is non-existent

externally

so what what is he talking about when he

says what is non-existent externally

everything you see around you everything

you're experiencing around you

is experienced through the sixth sense

basis

so the idea is that the world itself

that you experience

subjectively is created

by the sixth sense basis

you can't say that this is the color

purple now i can say this is the color

red and you might also say that this is

the color red

right

but

you're seeing it red because of the way

your eyes perceive them in other words

through the retina through the different

cones and so on in the eyes

you're only picking up certain

frequencies

so you only hear a certain bandwidth of

sound

so your experience of this world how

it's being received it's all vibrations

right

molecular vibrations vibrations in the

atmosphere

and so on and so forth and all of that

is being interpreted in the mind

and then the mind creates this image

this mind creates the experience for you

so what are you actually grasping at

what are you actually craving for what

do you actually have an aversion towards

everything is made up of form right this

whole universe is made up of form what

is form

it's the earth element

it's made up of the earth element the

water element the air element the fire

element

all of that is basically just molecules

in different states of matter

but the interpretation of your mind

causes you to say i like the color red

or i like the color blue but i hate the

color red

i like chocolate cake but i hate

cheesecake

i like goat chocolate cake and

cheesecake

but

you know these preferences that you have

they're created by what

they created by

you identifying with certain kinds of

molecular vibrations that's it

i like this taste because of the

molecules that hit my tongue these

particular molecules i like those

particular molecules i don't know

so when you start to see it in this way

how can we take anything personal

how could you be agitated about them

venerable sir can there be no agitation

about what is non-existent externally

there can be beku

the blessed one said here because

someone does not think thus

alas i had it alas i have it no longer

alas may i have it alas i do not get it

then he does not sorrow grieve and

lament he does not weep beating his

breast and become distraught

that is how there is no agitation about

what is non-existent externally

can there be

agitation about what is non-existent

internally

there can be beku the blessed one said

here because someone has the view

that that which is the self is the world

after death i shall be permanent

everlasting eternal not subject to

change i shall endure as long as

eternity

or a hears

of the tagatha teaching the dhamma for

the elimination of all standpoints

decisions obsessions adherences and

underlying tendencies for distilling of

all formations for the relinquishing of

all attachments for the destruction of

craving for dispassion

for cessation for nirvana

now listen carefully

so here is somebody

who has this view

of the self

that this is me this is mine this is

myself that i shall endure forever this

is the person that has this view

then they are

introduced to the dhamma

and the dhamma which is

for the elimination of all standpoints

decisions obsessions adherences and

underlying tendencies the elimination of

attachment to all views

categorically

all decisions

no identification with any of that

for the stilling of all formations

for the relinquishing of all attachments

for the destruction of craving for

dispassion for cessation for nibana so

this dawah

is for the cessation of suffering

understanding what is suffering

and letting it go through wisdom

that wisdom that arises

shows you that everything is impersonal

but somebody with the view that i have a

self

or i am a self that will endure forever

will think thus

so i shall be annihilated so i shall

perish so i shall be no more

then he sorrows grieves and laments he

weeps beating his breast and becomes

distraught

this is how there is agitation about

what is non-existent

internally

so somebody who's introduced for the to

the dhamma for the first time with the

idea of some permanent soul

they have an immediate resistance when

they hear oh

this is not self this is not you this is

not you so they're like

that means then i'll be annihilated and

the reason why they think that this is

annihilationism is because they still

presuppose somewhere intrinsically

that there is a self

even on an intellectual level they still

think that there is a self

but once you understand that everything

is impersonal

then there's no agitation about it

then you've let go of that view of the

self

you've let go of the view of a personal

self having let go of it you experience

peace

you don't have agitation about it

because now you understand as it

actually is what is form what is feeling

what is perception what are formations

what is consciousness

you understand it all to be impersonal

you understand the sixth sense basis to

be impersonal

you understand the experiences of the

sixth sense basis to be personal

impersonal you understand contact to be

impersonal so when you see all this as

in person

how could you get agitated

if you have truly let go of that view

you would not be agitated and you

wouldn't have this idea

that i will be annihilated

because you realize that there was no

you to begin with

it's all a series of impersonal

causes and conditions

venerable sir can there be no agitation

about what is non-existent internally

there can be beku the blessed one said

here be who someone does not have the

view that which is the self is the world

i shall endure as long as eternity so

they don't have that view they don't

hold them

then they hear that

or a disciple of the tata teaching the

dhamma for the elimination

of all standpoints decisions obsessions

adherences and underlying tendencies for

distilling of all formations for the

relinquishing of all attachments for the

destruction of craven for dispassion for

cessation for nibana

therefore he does not think thus

so i shall be annihilated so i shall

perish

so i shall be no more

then he does not sorrow grieve and

lament he does not weep beating his

breast and become distraught that is how

there is no agitation about what is

non-consistent internally

because perhaps you may well acquire

that possession that is permanent

everlasting eternal not subject to

change and that might endure as long as

eternity

but do you see any such possession

beaches

no venerable sir

good because i too do not see any

possession that is permanent everlasting

eternal

not subject to change and that might

endure as long as eternity

because

perhaps you may well cling to that

doctrine of self that would not arouse

sorrow lamentation pain grief and

despair in one who clings to it

but do you see any such doctrine of self

because

no venerable sin

good because i too do not see any

doctrine of self that would not arouse

sorrow lamentation

pain

grief and despair

in one who clings to it

because perhaps you may well take as

they support that view

that would not arouse sorrow lamentation

pain grief and despair in one who takes

it as a support

but do you see any such support of views

because

no venerable sir good because i too do

not see any support of views that would

not arouse sorrow lamentation pain grief

and despair in one who takes it as

support

that includes right view as well that

includes the dhamma as well

so in the first case the buddha is

asking

do you possess

something that would be

permanent eternal everlasting not

subject to change that might endure as

long as eternity

the beak whose having seen for

themselves all that is not self

know that there is nothing that can be

possessed

which can be considered to be permanent

which can be considered to be

everlasting

which can endure as long as eternity

in the second case

the buddha is asking

you might cling to a doctrine yourself

perhaps there might be a doctrine of

self

that would not arouse sorrow lamentation

pain grief and despair in one who clings

to it

but the big say there is no such view

possible because they are seen for

themselves

taking any kind of view

and attaching

to it clinging to it what does that mean

you're defending that view

i am a self i exist as a self this is me

this is mine this is myself

defending in that way being attached to

it what happens

you have anger you have frustration you

have irritation

you have this whole mass of suffering

that arises

so in the same way

the buddha asks

you might have

take it you might well take

a support that view or as a support that

view that would not arouse sorrow

lamentation pain grief and despair

and the beakers say no

they don't

so he says i too do not see any

supportive views that would not arouse

sorrow lamentation pain grief and

despair in one who takes it as support

because there being a self would there

be for me what belongs to a self

because they're being a self but

therefore me

would there be for me what belongs to a

self

yes venerable

or there being what belongs to a self

would there be for me a self

yes verbal sir

because since a self and what belongs to

herself

are not apprehended as true and

established

then this standpoint for views namely

that which is the self is the world

after death i shall be permanent

everlasting eternal not subject to

change i shall endure as long as

eternity

would it not be an utterly and

completely foolish teaching

what else could it be venerable sir but

an utterly and completely foolish

teaching

so here are the buddha saying okay if

there is a self

right there is a self let's say

would there be for me what belongs to a

self

yes there would be something that

belongs to herself so if there is a self

there would be something that belongs to

that self

that is

whatever it might be that the self

possesses

and then there being what belongs to a

self

would there be for me a self in other

words if there is something there

that presupposes that a self possesses

it then it also presupposes that there

is a self

so the idea is a lot of people

might think

that the form is self

or the form is possessed of self

or feeling itself or feeling is

possessed of self

that perception is self or perception is

possessed of self that formations are

self formations are me or i possess

formations

consciousness is me or i possess

consciousness

so there is some kind of self intrinsic

self that people may believe in and they

take one or more of these five

aggregates one way or the other that

they belong to me or that they are me or

i am in them or i am separate from them

so the buddha says if you have such a

doctrine how do you

let go of them

so he goes to this he says bikus what do

you think

is material form permanent or

impermanent

what do you think

impermanent

is what is impermanent suffering or

happiness

suffering

is what is impermanent suffering and

subject to change fit to be regarded

thus this is mine this i am this is

myself

because what do you think is feeling

permanent or impermanent

impermanent

is what is impermanent suffering or

happiness

suffering

is what is impermanent suffering and

subject to change fit to be regarded

thus this is mine this i am this is

myself

because what do you think is perception

permanent or impermanent

is what is impermanent suffering or

happiness

of suffering

is what is impermanent suffering and

subject to change fit to be regarded

thus

this is mine

this i am this is

because what do you think

are formations permanent or impermanent

impermanent

is what is impermanent suffering or

happiness

suffering

is what is impermanent suffering and

subject to change fit to be regarded

thus this is mind this i am this is

myself

what do you think is consciousness

permanent or impermanent

impermanent

is what is impermanent suffering or

happiness

is what is impermanent suffering and

subject to change fit to be regarded

thus

this is mine this i am this is myself

therefore because any kind of material

form whatever whether past

future or present

internal or external gross or subtle

inferior or superior far or near

all material form should be seen as it

actually is with proper wisdom thus

this is not mine this i am not this is

not myself

any kind of feeling whatever whether

past future or present

internal or external grass or subtle

inferior or superior far or near near

all feeling

should be seen as it actually is with

proper wisdom thus

this is not mine this i am not this is

not myself

any kind of perception

whatever

whether past future or present

internal or external gross or subtle

inferior or superior far or near

all perception should be seen as it

actually is with proper wisdom thus

this is not mine this i am not this is

not myself

any kind of formations whatever whether

past future or present

internal or external gross or subtle

inferior or superior far or near

all formations should be seen as they

actually are with proper wisdom thus

this is not mine this i am not this is

not myself

any kind of consciousness whatsoever

whether past future or present

internal or external grass or subtle

inferior or superior far or near

all consciousness should be seen as it

actually is with proper wisdom thus

this is not mine this i am not this is

not myself

seeing thus because

a well-taught noble disciple

becomes disenchanted with material form

disenchanted with feeling

disenchanted with perception

disenchanted with formations

disenchanted with consciousness

does this sound familiar what happens

when you see the arising and passing

away of consciousnesses

you see they are impermanent they become

tiresome so you see them as dukka

therefore you see them as impersonal

there's no control of them

what happens you experience equanimity

with nothingness

as you get deeper and deeper that

equanimity changes into

this enchantment

you become disenchanted with all arising

and passing away of formations

of consciousness of feeling of

perception

being disenchanted he becomes

dispassioned

remember dispassionate is that

attitude that that tough mind that

nothing sticks

it just glides on through

it comes from the word varagya which

means to be detached

no longer seeing this as me mine or

myself no longer seeing it as

you know something i have to

engage in

completely disengaged from formations

disengaged from consciousness things

disengaged from feeling disengaged from

perception disengaged from form

through this passion through that

attitude

his mind is liberated

when it is liberated there comes the

knowledge it is liberated so

that dispassion leads to cessation leads

to the experience of nirvana

having seen that one comes one knows

that the mind is liberated and then one

understands birth is destroyed the holy

life has been lived what had to be done

has been done

there is no more coming to any state of

being

because

such a biku one who understands this and

sees it

is called one whose crossbar has been

lifted whose trench has been filled in

whose pillar has been uprooted

one who has no bolt

bolt

a noble one whose banner is lowered

whose burden is lord who is unfettered

destroyed all of the feathers

and how is the behoo

one whose crossbar has been lifted

here the biku has abandoned ignorance

has cut it off at the root

made it like a palm stone done away with

it so that it is no longer subject to

future arising

so in other words that biku that person

not one

who has attained to our hardship has let

go completely of ignorance abandoned it

because they have completely understood

right view

they have attained to the super mundane

right view of the four noble truths

this is how the beku who is one whose

crossbar has been lifted

and how is the beaker one whose trench

has been filled in

here the biku has abandoned the round of

birds that brings renewed be renewed

being has cut it off at the root

so that it is no longer subject to

future arising

in other words that biku that one who

has attained to our hardship has

abandoned the possibility of further

rebirth

because there is no more becoming

no more identification

no more concretizing of a sense of self

and power

no more habitual emotional reactions

no more clinging

that is how the beku is one whose trench

has been filled in

and how is the bq1 whose pillar has been

uprooted

here the biku has abandoned craving has

cut it off at the root

so that it is no longer subject to

future arising

so what is he abandoned he has abandoned

craving craving already his abandonment

for sensual experiences

but he's also create abandoned the

craving for existence and the craving

for non-existence

this is how the biku is one who has boat

or rather whose pillar has been uprooted

and how is the bee crew one who has no

boat

here the beagle has abandoned the five

lower fetters has cut them off at the

root

so that they are no longer subject to

future arising that is how the beku is

one who has no bold

in other words he has let go already of

the first five fetters he no longer has

belief in personal self

he no longer has doubt in the buddha in

sangha

he no longer has any clinging to rights

and rituals with the idea that they will

take him to nibada

he no longer has any sensual craving he

no longer has an aversion

and how is the big

noble one

who whose banner is lowered whose burden

is lord who is unfettered

here the biku has abandoned the conceit

i am

has cut it off at the root so that it is

no longer subject to future arising

remember what i

said that conceit that fetter of conceit

gives rise to restlessness gives rise to

anxiety gives rise to agitation

gives rise to craving for existence in a

form realm or formless

when that conceit of i am is gone

that conceit of identifying with any of

the five aggregates is gone then there

is no mental agitation restlessness goes

away there is no craving for further

existence that goes away no craving for

jhana no craving for formless

attainments and already ignorance is

gone

and so that is how the biku is a noble

one whose banner is lowered whose burden

is lord who is unfettered

because when the gods with indra indra

is also saka it's another name for

with brahma and with pachapati pajapati

here is actually

seek a biku who is thus liberated in

mind they do not find anything of which

they could say

the consciousness of one thus gone

is supported by this

why is that

one thus gone i say is unfazable

here and now

the mind of the arahat is empty of

craving

it is a mind without craving

[Music]

but without that craving without that

conceit without that ignorance without

any of that how could that mind be

traced

that mind is completely void of these

things

that mind is signless

sinus in that it has no objects

of craving it has no objects of hatred

it has no objects of delusion

it is void it is empty it is signless

it has nothing there because there's

nothing there to measure it by it is

immeasurable for that reason

there is no conceit there is no mana

there is no measuring

so how could you trace how could you

it's like a free burp that night

there's no way you can grasp at that

mind

to try to read into the mind of an

arahat

all you can see is that it's just free

there's nothing there

just empty

so the devas the brahmanas

they can't do anything

they can't

scope out that brain or the mind of the

arahat

because there's nothing there to

identify with

so one thus gone that's another

word for the titan that's what the

target means one thus gone or one come

forth

but one thus gone meaning one who has

attained full niban one who has attained

full awakening

there is no way to trace that

consciousness

it is known as

non-reflective consciousness

that consciousness doesn't reflect unto

anything

the mind of the arahat is completely

free of the notion of i mean or me or

mine

although they might use the words i me

or mine just as a way of transacting

with the world

the mind of our heart will still have

feeling we'll still have perceptions

we'll still have intention

we'll still have consciousness we'll

still experience contact obviously

but it will not reflect anything

it just arises

there is no hue there there is no you in

between there is no you here or there in

between

it's just all processes have

completely unestablished

so saying

so proclaiming

i have been basisly vainly falsely and

wrongly misrepresented by some recluses

and brahmanas thus

the reckless gautama is one who leads

astray

he teaches the annihilation the

destruction the extermination of an

existing being

the reason why they say that he teaches

annihilationism is because they assume

that there is a being

that goes back to that same question

isn't arahat a being or a non-being

if you say that he is a being then

you're saying that there is someone

there that there is something to

define that being by but if you say he

is a non-being then that means that he

was a being at one time he's no longer a

being

but the arahat was never not being nor a

being

the arahat completely understands

that there was no self to begin with

once they understand the completely

impersonal nature of all things

conditioned and unconditionally because

nirvana also is impersonal

there's nothing to grasp

and there's nothing to grasp that in the

mind of that

so how could you say that it is the

extermination of an existing being once

you realize this

as i am not as i do not proclaim so have

i been baselessly vainly falsely

and wrongly misrepresented

thus

by some recluses and brahmanas the

reckless gautama is one who leads astray

he teaches the annihilation the

destruction the extermination of an

existing being

because both formerly

and not

what i teach

is suffering and the cessation of

suffering

if others abuse revile scold and harass

the tagalog for that

that the tagat on that account feels no

annoyance

bitterness or dejection of the heart

and if others honor respect revere and

venerate the tagath for that the tata on

that account feels no delight joy or

elation of the heart if others honor

respect revere and venerated the target

for that

that the god on that account thinks thus

they perform such services as these for

me in regard to this which earlier was

fully understood

they performed such services as these

for me in regard to this which earlier

was fully understood

so in other words when they do honor

when they do respect when they revere

when they venerate they buddha or in our

heart

in the mind of such a being

being quote unquote

there arises the thought that they're

doing this because they fully understand

or they have some appreciation for the

dhamma they have some appreciation for

noble ones

that's it

so they'll just say

therefore because if others abuse revile

scold and harass you

on that account you should not enter

entertain any annoyance

bitterness or dejection of the heart

and if others honor respect revere and

venerate you on that account

you should not entertain any delight joy

relation of the heart

if others honor respect revere and

venerate you on that account you should

think thus

they perform such services as these for

us in regard to this which earlier was

fully understood

therefore because whatever is not yours

abandon it

his form yours his feelings his

perception yours his formation in yours

consciousness once you actually see it

as it actually is just let it go

let go of all identification with it

when you have abandoned it

that will lead to your welfare and

happiness for a long time

what is it that is not yours

material form is not yours abandon it

when you have abandoned it that will

lead to your welfare and happiness for a

long time

feeling is not yours abandon it

when you have abandoned it

that will lead to your welfare and

happiness for a long time

perception is not yours abandon it

when you have abandoned it that will

lead to your welfare and happiness for a

long time

formations are not yours abandon them

when you have abandoned them that will

lead to your welfare and happiness for a

long time

consciousness is not yours abandon it

when you have abandoned it that will

lead to your welfare and happiness for a

long time

because what do you think if people

carried off the grass sticks branches

and leaves in this jetta grove or burned

them or did what they liked with them

would you think

people are carrying us off or burning us

or doing what they like with us

no venerable sir why not

because that is neither our self nor

what belongs to ourselves

so too because whatever is not yours

abandon it

when you have abandoned it that will

lead to your welfare and happiness for a

long time

that is how you should see

the five aggregates

just

impersonal

processes

somebody pokes you

abandon that right it's just an

experience it's just a feeling

impersonal feeling somebody says

something about your form

abandon it

it's just an impersonal feeling

when you have a perception

what do you do do you grasp at it

and say i want it or this is going to

make me feel good

or just abandon me and just have

happiness right there and then

treat the five aggregates see the five

aggregates

as what the buddha just said as just

grass as sticks as branches and leaves

anything happens impersonally i mean

anything that happens

pleasant or unpleasant should be seen as

impersonal

anything that happens that is neutral

should be seen as impersonal

the experience you have in jhana

abandon it

right abandonment meaning don't take it

personally

the good feelings that you experience

with loving kindness the good feelings

you experience with compassion

the joy the equality

don't abandon that abandon the

attachment to it

so those feelings are seen as one

impersonal

don't say this is my loving kindness

this is just loving kindness

it arises and arises it goes away it

goes away

this is the joy that arises in jhana

is it my joy or is it just joy that

arose

abandonment

abandon the first chiang abandoned the

second gen abandoned the third giant

abandon the fortune abandon infinite

space

abandon infinite consciousness abandoned

nothingness abandoned neither perception

non-perception

and what happens

cessation of perception feeling and

consciousness

everything that arises in the mind is

not yours it's not you

abandoned let it go

and then you will experience cessation

because the dharma well proclaimed by me

thus is clear open evident and free of

patchwork in the dharma well proclaimed

by me thus which is clear open evident

and free of patchwork there is no future

around for manifestations in the case of

those who are arahats with taints

destroyed who have lived the holy life

done what had to be done lay down the

burden reached their own goal destroyed

the fetters of being and are completely

liberated through final knowledge

because

the dhamma well proclaimed by me thus is

clear free of patchwork

in the dharma well proclaimed by me thus

which is clear free of patchwork those

speakers who have abandoned the five

lower feathers are all due to reappear

spontaneously in the pure abodes and

there attained final nirvana without

ever returning

from that world

because the dhamma well proclaimed by me

thus is clear free of patchwork

in the dharma well proclaimed by me thus

which is clear free of patchwork

those beakers who have abandoned three

fetters and in and to attenuated

lust

hatred and delusion are all once

returners returning once to this world

to make an end of suffering

because the dharma well proclaimed by me

thus is clear

free of patchwork

in the dhamma well proclaimed by me thus

which is clear free of patchwork those

beakers who have abandoned three fetters

are all stream enterers no longer

subject to perdition

bound for

liberation and headed for enlightenment

because the dharma well proclaimed by me

thus is clear

free of patchwork in the dhamma well

proclaimed by me thus which is clear

free of patchwork there arise who are

dharma followers or faith followers

these are sodapanas with path

are all headed for enlightenment

because the dhamma well proclaimed by me

thus is clear

open evident free of patchwork

in the dhamma well proclaimed by me thus

which is clear open evident and free of

patchwork

those who have sufficient faith

in me sufficient love for me are all

headed for heaven

in other words those who have let go of

just even doubt

who just practiced the dharma out of

confidence in the buddha dharma and

sangha

already are attaining towards right view

attaining towards having the right

priest attaining towards keeping the

precepts

having generosity and so on and that

leads them to a higher state in

a devaloka

that is what the blessed one said the

bikus were satisfied and delighted in

the blessed one's words

questions

wow you guys are really delighted your

instructions were free of patchwork

thank you

yeah

uh can you explain uh

the likes three through like five from

consciousness to six four days

yeah

so consciousness there is basically the

six-fold consciousness that is the eye

consciousness the urinal consciousness

the nose consciousness

the tongue consciousness the body

consciousness and mind consciousness

that's one understanding so

consciousness also

gives rise to nama rupa or mentality

materiality

that means that mentality materiality

depends upon consciousness for it to be

experienced

and consciousness cannot be experienced

without mentality material

so for consciousness to continue it

needs mentality materiality and for

mentality materiality to be experienced

that requires consciousness

mentality is made up of five things

it's made up of contact feeling

perception intention and attention

so that means it gives rise to the

potential for contact here's rise for

the potential of feeling gives rise for

the potential of perception

gives rise to intention caitanya which

is the inclination of the mind towards

something wholesome or unwholesome

and attention that is the attention

moves from one thing to the other and so

so does consciousness

attention is what drives forward the

consciousness

intention is what drives forward the

formations

then there is form materiality which is

made up of the four great

uh elements

that is earth water fire and air

in other words the different states of

matter make up this form this body that

we see here

it's made up of the different elements

in order for mentality to be able to be

functioning it requires

the materiality

that is to say it requires the brain

which is all of this stuff that's there

through that you experience the factors

of mentality that is

the contact the feeling the perception

the intention and the attention

so in order for you to know that there

is a materiality you need a mentality

but in order for mentality to

actually work it needs to have

materiality so there is that

interdependency there as well

housed within this mentality materiality

are the sixth sense spaces

so that is the eye the ears the nose the

tongue the body and the mind

i see so so

materiality is dependent on

consciousness and

vice versa so that there's like a cycle

there right yes so is there like uh

which one came first or

how does that work

that's a chicken and egg chicken right

here

i see it

because the thing is consciousness

continues to rise and pass away in every

moment

so it continues to give vitality to the

materiality

so you could say the struck one starting

point

in one life is just at the birth of that

new nama rupa so there's consciousness

that descends in that mentality

materiality and then that starts the

process but it's not the same

consciousness that departs that body

it's a consciousness that continues to

change continues to arise and passively

i see that makes sense

and so i guess kind of a follow-up

question of that is so if an infinite

consciousness

could you like describe what the

like the signpost there is

or like what do you see there

so generally in infinite consciousness

what you see is the arising and passing

away of eye consciousness or your

consciousness or nose consciousness or

tongue consciousness or body

consciousness mind consciousness

so the way you would see eye

consciousness could be in

multiple different ways in other words

you can you can notice flickering

behind your eyelids you could notice

like concentric circles suddenly you

know coming into being you can notice

little things dots things like that

coming and going coming and going uh

with the your consciousness you can

notice flickering happening like

clicking you know snapping going on

or actually you might even notice when

you like some people can experience

infinite consciousness

while their eyes open and while they're

walking

so the world around them is like slowed

down and they see the frames of reality

like when you slow down a film reel you

start to see the individual frames

so it's like you're under strobe lights

you know and you just see like movements

like that jerky movements

and then sometimes people can hear the

sound and then they hear every other

sound

like there's a blank there because

they're seeing they're rising and

passing away sound the arising passenger

of your consciousness

some people experience nose

consciousness through phantom smells in

their meditation

or they'll experience phantom tastes in

the tongue

or they'll experience electricity in the

tongue and likewise in the body they'll

experience tingling or vibrations all

throughout the body

or they'll experience some kind of heat

and cold in the body

and then with the mind they start to see

their thoughts the stream of thoughts

and they start to see the gaps

in between the thoughts

so these are some ways

that they can be experienced

so i guess my question there is

so you know so the eye consciousness

flickering for example um so you know

that at uh

contact and feeling right you see like

those moving so i guess how do you know

that

that's the consciousness link that's

arising and passing away and not just

feeling arising and messing with it

well you're feeling it

you're experiencing it yeah

that's the thing when there is

consciousness there is also feeling and

perception tied to it

so you can't like

is it you can't know like for sure and

pinpoint oh like this is the

consciousness link like a rising

investment rate

well where there is the consciousness

link

that is to say the arising and passing

way of eye consciousness there is high

feeling there as well and eye perception

there

so because you see that feeling is

rising passing away and because feelings

dependent on consciousness

like through that inference you can say

that consciousness must be arising and

passing away

yes

but feeling is dependent upon contact

and in contact there is the eye

consciousness

so i guess if if you say that so if

we're saying that consciousness is the

beer like cognition right

so i guess

okay yeah i guess that makes sense yeah

thank you