From: https://youtube.com/watch?v=S7tlQBAwEdM

Context: Throughout this transcript, Bhante Vimalaramsi is the speaker unless otherwise indicated.

[Music]

so

[Music]

so

today we will

finish what we started yesterday

which is uh

majuminikaya 15

maha nida

the great discourse on origination

big nikaya

good you guys are listening

no

uh

so before i continue yesterday i was

talking about feeling

and i asked can you six our feeling

you cannot sticks are the experience

that happens through the process of

feeling

but you can six are the craving

or the aversion to that experience

you just

to clarify

that you yes

your six are in your own

reaction

yeah

but you ever you can six hour craving

you can six our clinging

but you can't actually six are an

experience you can like

right now you're listening to me you

cannot six here six are

your way out of this diamond talk

well

let's let's let's remember that 6r is

not

eliminating anything yeah

recognizing that something is there

and

releasing your attention

yeah

and then you're relaxing the craving or

resistance if there is

because at certain points

sicks are the feeling the moment you

feel boom

you release

and of course you're releasing the

craving that arose with it

but

you know that feeling will disappear

immediately

and

and then gradually you get to where the

contact just happens and

you know and then

you're in this subtle level now

and that's where you have that

experience of in the scene there is only

the scene

and so on

so

we're going to finish

uh tiga

there are seven stations of

consciousness and two realms

which are the seven

there are beings different in body and

different in perception

such as human beings

some devas and some in states of woe

so this particular station of

consciousness is the sensual realm

there's different

beings

there's different perceptions

for example we can

through our human eye see certain

things and hear certain things

but

rex and duke i guess rex maybe not so

much but

they can hear things farther than we can

or a bird certain kinds of birds can see

certain kinds of light

and so on so

different in perception

now yesterday we brought up the

idea of the hell realms

and so in the hell realms

you can't experience pleasant feeling

it's all unpleasant it's all

very terrible

so your

nervous system as it war is geared to

experience more pain than anything else

and then that changes as you go through

the different

different realms within the sensual

uh what would you say the sensual

category of realms

there are beings in different body a

different in body and alike in

perception

such as

the devas of brahma's retinue

born there on account of having attained

the first jhana

so here it says there are beings

different in body and alike in

perception what is the perception what

is that they they

experience and perceive in the first

brahmaloka

the first channel the factors of the

first channel you have thinking and

examining thought

you have joy coming up you have sukkah

coming up

not the cat sukkah the

the comfort

so

but they're different in body why is

that

because in the first promo realm we have

the

brahma being the maha brahma being

within this and then we have brahma's

retinue

and we have the

purohitas and all the other different

kinds of categories of brahma beings

within this first brahma being

there are beings alike in body

and different in perception

such as the abhasara devas

so here it says that there are beings

alike in body but different in

perception

so the abbas are beings are the second

brahmaloka so what would they experience

second genre

but they do some beings experience it

differently

there might be still

some

uh

thinking going on some process of

verbalizing going on there so there is a

suta in which

anuruddha is talking about these beings

and he talks about the abhassar beings

and within the apostolate beings there

are certain kinds of beings

which are

lower there's three categories of beings

who have the same kind of perception of

the factors of the second channel but

there's a fourth category which have a

have slight verbalizations going on

and then

they have the same body that is to say

they have the same

experience of the body they have the

same kind of body the same type of body

that is to say

the glowing and so on and so forth

they're made out of

some form of light

so whatever i'm saying right now with

regards to the seven

stations of consciousness

it's interesting information it's not

like you really

need to know this stuff it's not like

you really need to it's not going to be

a test

right but it's an interesting

idea of understanding how it correlates

to the genres and the experiences in

psychology

in each life in one life

that is the third station

there are beings alike in body and alike

in perception

such as the subha kina devas

so subha kina are one

level higher than the apostle so they

experience the same factors of the third

genome all of them

and they're also the same in terms of

their body same level of glow and so on

and so forth they have a different kind

of glow than the abhassar beings but

they're all

basically the same

and when you go to these realms

these beings are basically just blissed

out

right they're feeding on bliss

right so you can't you can't disturb

them they just

you know bliss addicts

you know so they're just like

feeding on it and that that's their fuel

and once that is over that karma is over

that's it that's the end of that life in

that particular brahmaloka and whatever

karma is there will take them to their

next life

that is the fourth station

there are beings who have completely

transcended all perception of matter

by vanishing of the perception of sense

reactions

and by non-attention to the perception

of variety

thinking space is infinite

they have attained to the sphere of

infinite space

that is the fifth station

so in infinite space there is there are

brahma beings there are beings who are

experiencing infinite space but they

don't have a form

they only have mentality there they only

have the contact the feeling the

perception

intention and attention

and the experience of spaciousness

infinite space

there are beings who by transcending the

sphere of infinite space

thinking consciousness is infinite have

attained to the sphere of infinite

consciousness

that is the sixth station

so here what happens is

there are beings who are again formless

there's no form but what they experience

is the arising and passing away of

consciousness dependent upon contact

so what they experience here is not

through the six not to the five physical

sense basis there's only mind and so

whatever they're experiencing is the

arising and passing away of mental karma

in the form of arising and passing away

of

minded consciousness or mental

consciousness

and then when that fuel is spent

then whatever karma is there will take

them to

a different realm

there are beings who having transcended

the sphere of infinite consciousness

thinking there is no thing have attained

to the sphere of no thinness

that is the seventh station of

consciousness

so here

these beings are trans have transcended

infinite space and infinite

consciousness

and are perceiving nothing

there's a perception of nothing there's

contact with the idea and concept of

nothing there's feeling of nothing

there's perception of nothing there's

nothing going on

for many many many many many many

many trillions and trillions and

trillions and trillions

of years

that's a long time

and then

the two realms

are the realm of unconscious beings

and secondly the realm of neither

perception nor non-perception

the realm of unconscious beings

is within the vicinity of the form

realms

within the vicinity of the fourth form

realm

so that means that there are they have a

body

but they're unconscious

there's nothing going on in there

there's no perception there's no feeling

there's no consciousness

doesn't mean that they're experiencing

cessation of perception feeling and

consciousness their mind is just in a

experience of suspended animation

and whatever

karma arises whatever thought arises at

the end of that life will then determine

their next life

so it's like somebody who has gone into

suspended animation

passes away and then appears in the

realm of the unconscious beings

and neither perception or non-perception

there are beings there in this realm

who are not exactly experiencing

perception nor non-perception

right

so they're experiencing what you would

experience in neither perception or

non-perception

but there's no

way to understand what factors are

available there or what factors are

functioning exactly there so the way to

get to this state obviously is somebody

who experiences neither perception or

non-perception

and there's no sense of intention when a

person

let's say in this life

passes on

there's no intention that goes on but

there's still some fuel for karma

there's still some clinging going on and

it will cling to this idea of neither

perception or non-perception and then

take them to

the realm of neither perception or

non-perception

now ananda as regards to this first

station of consciousness

with difference of body and difference

of perception

as in the case of human beings and so on

if anyone were to understand it its

origin its cessation its attraction and

its peril

and the deliverance from it

would it be fitting for him to take

pleasure in it

so in other words if you knew

that this realm of human existence

and the sixth sensual heavens and

basically the entire kama datu as it's

called kamadatu is

the category of sensual realms

you understand if you understood

that

they arose because of causes and

conditions

and because they are conditioned

they are also bound to cease therefore

they are impermanent if you understood

what is it that attracts beings to these

realms and what is the danger in that

and then you understood what is the

deliverance from it

would a person would it be fitting for

fitting for them to take pleasure in

that realm

knowing that pleasant feeling is

impermanent in those realms

would it make sense

no and so as regards to the other

stations and the two spheres likewise

would it make sense

even though those realms are many many

many many trillions of years

of existence they still have an end and

they're still conditioned

and still karma arises from them

would it be fitting to take pleasure in

them

no

ananda

in so far as a monk having known as they

really are

these seven stations of consciousness

and these two spheres

their origin

and cessation their attraction and peril

is freed without attachment

that monk ananda is called one who is

liberated by

wisdom

so

this might be an interesting time to

talk about that so we have liberated by

wisdom

is one category

there are these seven types of people

what's seven

there is one who is the faith follower

there is one who is the dhamma follower

there is one who is

liberated by faith there is one who is

attained to view

there is one who is

liberated by wisdom there's one who is

the body witness and there's one who is

liberated both ways

so the faith follower according to the

suit as the faith follower has

or the commentaries of that suta

actually because it's never really

described what these different types of

people are

but there are commentaries and bodhi has

his own ideas about it but the idea is

with a faith follower and the dhamma

follower they become stream enters with

path

they haven't yet

had the fruition

and the way in which they are our faith

follower or dhamma follower the faith

follower has

the faith faculty the faculty of faith

strengthened in them the dharma follower

has the faculty of wisdom strengthened

in them

so there's the five faculties there's

faith there's energy there's mindfulness

there's collectedness and there's

wisdom

so maybe another way to understand this

i'm putting it out here and maybe if you

want we can discuss it is the idea that

the faith follower is one upon hearing

not having gone through janus

one upon hearing the dharma

experiences stream entry

and then someone who

goes through the path of the janus

and then sees the arising and passing

way of things and experiences

the

destruction of the three feathers

is one who is a dhamma follow one who is

a stream enter

but not yet with fruition

that's one way to look at it

any comments

yeah i mean it's hard to

you know faith follower he hears it and

he attains i mean that's got to be a lot

of wisdom there yeah

however on the other hand the faith

follower already has confidence in the

smith

and the mind is set toward that and it's

following precepts and it's like ready

but the

followers somebody

maybe not like that but

so you're saying with the faith follower

they take everything just as is and so

they have wisdom there yeah they're not

skeptical

like oh no that can't be that they're

actually going okay that's what it is

yeah and with the dharma follower they

have to see for themselves they have to

actually

go through the process

yeah because in some suddens it talks

about the dhamma follower as one who

sees the impermanence of states

and so seeing so

they then attain streamlined training

yeah

there are ananda these eight liberations

what are they

now the buddha is talking about

liberation is not in the sense of

liberation of the mind in a permanent

sense

like you would have with attainments

but liberation of the mind in terms of

janus

because when you're in jhana you're

temporarily liberated from

the hindrances from unwholesome states

of mind

possessing form one sees form

that is the first liberation

not perceiving material forms in oneself

one sees them

outside that is the second liberation

so it says possessing form one sees

forms

does that sound like the first giant to

you guys

that's what i'm asking you guys what do

you think

possessing form one sees forms

i mean it could be or

it could be monday i mean

if you have forms you see forms whether

it's mundane or

super monday

so

one interpretation about this is what

they're talking about is the asuba

practices or the practice of seeing the

different

parts of the body

so possessing form possessing the body

one sees the forms within the body

and so this is not me this is not mine

this is not myself and so on

that's one way of looking at it

and then in the second form the second

case it says not perceiving material

forms in oneself

one sees them outside

can you take out your heart and see it

from the outside

no no not

visualizing your

outside

this is talking about generally

the commentaries talk about it as casino

casino k-a-s-i-n-a

perceiving material forms in oneself

one sees form one sees forms outside

meaning one uses were you gonna say

something

it might be related to machinery number

one um

that happens where you are seeing the

different elements as they are and then

you conceive of yourself as them

or you conceive yourself in them or you

conceive yourself apart from them or you

conceive yourself

possessed of them

but here we're saying

not perceiving material forms in oneself

one sees them outside

so there's nothing about the

self-conception going on here

it could be like a charmel ground

meditation

so the traditional understanding of

casino is that you take the earth

element or you take the fire element you

take the water element or you take the

air element or you take the colors red

white

blue

yellow no

one of them but

you take some color you take some form

and then it's like you create an image a

circle a disk

and then you focus on that disk

and that's your gateway into getting

into jhana

or flame or water or whatever it might

be

so

the idea is that this casino allows you

to become super concentrated

and allows you to be very one-pointed

but if you look at the word kasina

that's the pali word

it comes from the sanskrit word

kritsna

n

k-r-i-t-s-n-a

and kritzna means to be hold

w-h-o-l-e to be expansive

so actually you're taking that and

you're expanding it

to experience

infinite space

that's when you go back to maja manika

one two one the buddha talks about the

earth and so on and so forth and he

expands it and experiences infinite

space

so actually casino is not about

concentrating it's about having an

expansive awareness

and then

that's the second liberation

thinking it is beautiful one becomes

intent on it that is the third

what could that be

yeah they call the for the fourth jhana

as the beautiful and it's intended upon

but there's another way of looking at it

is beautiful

it's the

liberation of mine through the

brahmaviharas

because they are the beautiful loving

kindness

compassion

uh joy and equanimity

so that's the third thinking it is

beautiful one becomes intent on it

by completely transcending all

perceptions of matter

by the vanishing of the perception of

sense reactions

and by non-attention to the perception

of variety that's the perception of

diversity

that we're talking about

thinking space is infinite one enters

and abides in the sphere of infinite

space

that is the fourth liberation

by transcending the sphere of infinite

space thinking consciousness is infinite

one enters and abides in the sphere of

infinite consciousness that is the fifth

liberation

by transcending the sphere of infinite

consciousness thinking there is no thing

one enters and abides in the sphere of

no thingness

that is the sixth liberation

by transcending the sphere of no

thingness

one reaches and abides in the sphere of

neither perception nor non-perception

that is the seventh

liberation by transcending the sphere of

neither perception nor non-perception

one enters and abides in the cessation

of perception feeling and consciousness

that is the eighth liberation

ananda when once a monk attains

these eight liberations in forward order

in reverse order and in forward and

reverse order entering them and emerging

from them as and when

and for as long as they wish

and has gained by their own super

knowledge here and now

the destruction of the corruptions and

the uncorrupted liberation

of heart

and the liberation by wisdom

that monk is called

liberated both ways

and ananda there is no other

way of both ways liberated that is more

excellent or perfect than this

thus the lord spoke and the venerable

ananda rejoiced and was delighted at his

words

any last questions

okay let's share some merit

may suffering ones be suffering free may

the virus fearless be

may the grieving shed all grief

may all beings find relief

may all beings share this merit that we

have thus acquired for the acquisition

of all kinds of happiness many beings

inhabiting space and earth devas and

nagas of mighty power share this merit

of ours

may they long protect the buddha's

dispensations

[Music]

you

[Music]

so

[Music]

so

today we will

finish what we started yesterday

which is uh

majuminikaya 15

maha nida

the great discourse on origination

big nikaya

good you guys are listening

no

uh

so before i continue yesterday i was

talking about feeling

and i asked can you six our feeling

you cannot sticks are the experience

that happens through the process of

feeling

but you can six are the craving

or the aversion to that experience

you just

to clarify

that you yes

your six are in your own

reaction

yeah

but you ever you can six hour craving

you can six our clinging

but you can't actually six are an

experience you can like

right now you're listening to me you

cannot six here six are

your way out of this diamond talk

well

let's let's let's remember that 6r is

not

eliminating anything yeah

recognizing that something is there

and

releasing your attention

yeah

and then you're relaxing the craving or

resistance if there is

because at certain points

sicks are the feeling the moment you

feel boom

you release

and of course you're releasing the

craving that arose with it

but

you know that feeling will disappear

immediately

and

and then gradually you get to where the

contact just happens and

you know and then

you're in this subtle level now

and that's where you have that

experience of in the scene there is only

the scene

and so on

so

we're going to finish

uh tiga

there are seven stations of

consciousness and two realms

which are the seven

there are beings different in body and

different in perception

such as human beings

some devas and some in states of woe

so this particular station of

consciousness is the sensual realm

there's different

beings

there's different perceptions

for example we can

through our human eye see certain

things and hear certain things

but

rex and duke i guess rex maybe not so

much but

they can hear things farther than we can

or a bird certain kinds of birds can see

certain kinds of light

and so on so

different in perception

now yesterday we brought up the

idea of the hell realms

and so in the hell realms

you can't experience pleasant feeling

it's all unpleasant it's all

very terrible

so your

nervous system as it war is geared to

experience more pain than anything else

and then that changes as you go through

the different

different realms within the sensual

uh what would you say the sensual

category of realms

there are beings in different body a

different in body and alike in

perception

such as

the devas of brahma's retinue

born there on account of having attained

the first jhana

so here it says there are beings

different in body and alike in

perception what is the perception what

is that they they

experience and perceive in the first

brahmaloka

the first channel the factors of the

first channel you have thinking and

examining thought

you have joy coming up you have sukkah

coming up

not the cat sukkah the

the comfort

so

but they're different in body why is

that

because in the first promo realm we have

the

brahma being the maha brahma being

within this and then we have brahma's

retinue

and we have the

purohitas and all the other different

kinds of categories of brahma beings

within this first brahma being

there are beings alike in body

and different in perception

such as the abhasara devas

so here it says that there are beings

alike in body but different in

perception

so the abbas are beings are the second

brahmaloka so what would they experience

second genre

but they do some beings experience it

differently

there might be still

some

uh

thinking going on some process of

verbalizing going on there so there is a

suta in which

anuruddha is talking about these beings

and he talks about the abhassar beings

and within the apostolate beings there

are certain kinds of beings

which are

lower there's three categories of beings

who have the same kind of perception of

the factors of the second channel but

there's a fourth category which have a

have slight verbalizations going on

and then

they have the same body that is to say

they have the same

experience of the body they have the

same kind of body the same type of body

that is to say

the glowing and so on and so forth

they're made out of

some form of light

so whatever i'm saying right now with

regards to the seven

stations of consciousness

it's interesting information it's not

like you really

need to know this stuff it's not like

you really need to it's not going to be

a test

right but it's an interesting

idea of understanding how it correlates

to the genres and the experiences in

psychology

in each life in one life

that is the third station

there are beings alike in body and alike

in perception

such as the subha kina devas

so subha kina are one

level higher than the apostle so they

experience the same factors of the third

genome all of them

and they're also the same in terms of

their body same level of glow and so on

and so forth they have a different kind

of glow than the abhassar beings but

they're all

basically the same

and when you go to these realms

these beings are basically just blissed

out

right they're feeding on bliss

right so you can't you can't disturb

them they just

you know bliss addicts

you know so they're just like

feeding on it and that that's their fuel

and once that is over that karma is over

that's it that's the end of that life in

that particular brahmaloka and whatever

karma is there will take them to their

next life

that is the fourth station

there are beings who have completely

transcended all perception of matter

by vanishing of the perception of sense

reactions

and by non-attention to the perception

of variety

thinking space is infinite

they have attained to the sphere of

infinite space

that is the fifth station

so in infinite space there is there are

brahma beings there are beings who are

experiencing infinite space but they

don't have a form

they only have mentality there they only

have the contact the feeling the

perception

intention and attention

and the experience of spaciousness

infinite space

there are beings who by transcending the

sphere of infinite space

thinking consciousness is infinite have

attained to the sphere of infinite

consciousness

that is the sixth station

so here what happens is

there are beings who are again formless

there's no form but what they experience

is the arising and passing away of

consciousness dependent upon contact

so what they experience here is not

through the six not to the five physical

sense basis there's only mind and so

whatever they're experiencing is the

arising and passing away of mental karma

in the form of arising and passing away

of

minded consciousness or mental

consciousness

and then when that fuel is spent

then whatever karma is there will take

them to

a different realm

there are beings who having transcended

the sphere of infinite consciousness

thinking there is no thing have attained

to the sphere of no thinness

that is the seventh station of

consciousness

so here

these beings are trans have transcended

infinite space and infinite

consciousness

and are perceiving nothing

there's a perception of nothing there's

contact with the idea and concept of

nothing there's feeling of nothing

there's perception of nothing there's

nothing going on

for many many many many many many

many trillions and trillions and

trillions and trillions

of years

that's a long time

and then

the two realms

are the realm of unconscious beings

and secondly the realm of neither

perception nor non-perception

the realm of unconscious beings

is within the vicinity of the form

realms

within the vicinity of the fourth form

realm

so that means that there are they have a

body

but they're unconscious

there's nothing going on in there

there's no perception there's no feeling

there's no consciousness

doesn't mean that they're experiencing

cessation of perception feeling and

consciousness their mind is just in a

experience of suspended animation

and whatever

karma arises whatever thought arises at

the end of that life will then determine

their next life

so it's like somebody who has gone into

suspended animation

passes away and then appears in the

realm of the unconscious beings

and neither perception or non-perception

there are beings there in this realm

who are not exactly experiencing

perception nor non-perception

right

so they're experiencing what you would

experience in neither perception or

non-perception

but there's no

way to understand what factors are

available there or what factors are

functioning exactly there so the way to

get to this state obviously is somebody

who experiences neither perception or

non-perception

and there's no sense of intention when a

person

let's say in this life

passes on

there's no intention that goes on but

there's still some fuel for karma

there's still some clinging going on and

it will cling to this idea of neither

perception or non-perception and then

take them to

the realm of neither perception or

non-perception

now ananda as regards to this first

station of consciousness

with difference of body and difference

of perception

as in the case of human beings and so on

if anyone were to understand it its

origin its cessation its attraction and

its peril

and the deliverance from it

would it be fitting for him to take

pleasure in it

so in other words if you knew

that this realm of human existence

and the sixth sensual heavens and

basically the entire kama datu as it's

called kamadatu is

the category of sensual realms

you understand if you understood

that

they arose because of causes and

conditions

and because they are conditioned

they are also bound to cease therefore

they are impermanent if you understood

what is it that attracts beings to these

realms and what is the danger in that

and then you understood what is the

deliverance from it

would a person would it be fitting for

fitting for them to take pleasure in

that realm

knowing that pleasant feeling is

impermanent in those realms

would it make sense

no and so as regards to the other

stations and the two spheres likewise

would it make sense

even though those realms are many many

many many trillions of years

of existence they still have an end and

they're still conditioned

and still karma arises from them

would it be fitting to take pleasure in

them

no

ananda

in so far as a monk having known as they

really are

these seven stations of consciousness

and these two spheres

their origin

and cessation their attraction and peril

is freed without attachment

that monk ananda is called one who is

liberated by

wisdom

so

this might be an interesting time to

talk about that so we have liberated by

wisdom

is one category

there are these seven types of people

what's seven

there is one who is the faith follower

there is one who is the dhamma follower

there is one who is

liberated by faith there is one who is

attained to view

there is one who is

liberated by wisdom there's one who is

the body witness and there's one who is

liberated both ways

so the faith follower according to the

suit as the faith follower has

or the commentaries of that suta

actually because it's never really

described what these different types of

people are

but there are commentaries and bodhi has

his own ideas about it but the idea is

with a faith follower and the dhamma

follower they become stream enters with

path

they haven't yet

had the fruition

and the way in which they are our faith

follower or dhamma follower the faith

follower has

the faith faculty the faculty of faith

strengthened in them the dharma follower

has the faculty of wisdom strengthened

in them

so there's the five faculties there's

faith there's energy there's mindfulness

there's collectedness and there's

wisdom

so maybe another way to understand this

i'm putting it out here and maybe if you

want we can discuss it is the idea that

the faith follower is one upon hearing

not having gone through janus

one upon hearing the dharma

experiences stream entry

and then someone who

goes through the path of the janus

and then sees the arising and passing

way of things and experiences

the

destruction of the three feathers

is one who is a dhamma follow one who is

a stream enter

but not yet with fruition

that's one way to look at it

any comments

yeah i mean it's hard to

you know faith follower he hears it and

he attains i mean that's got to be a lot

of wisdom there yeah

however on the other hand the faith

follower already has confidence in the

smith

and the mind is set toward that and it's

following precepts and it's like ready

but the

followers somebody

maybe not like that but

so you're saying with the faith follower

they take everything just as is and so

they have wisdom there yeah they're not

skeptical

like oh no that can't be that they're

actually going okay that's what it is

yeah and with the dharma follower they

have to see for themselves they have to

actually

go through the process

yeah because in some suddens it talks

about the dhamma follower as one who

sees the impermanence of states

and so seeing so

they then attain streamlined training

yeah

there are ananda these eight liberations

what are they

now the buddha is talking about

liberation is not in the sense of

liberation of the mind in a permanent

sense

like you would have with attainments

but liberation of the mind in terms of

janus

because when you're in jhana you're

temporarily liberated from

the hindrances from unwholesome states

of mind

possessing form one sees form

that is the first liberation

not perceiving material forms in oneself

one sees them

outside that is the second liberation

so it says possessing form one sees

forms

does that sound like the first giant to

you guys

that's what i'm asking you guys what do

you think

possessing form one sees forms

i mean it could be or

it could be monday i mean

if you have forms you see forms whether

it's mundane or

super monday

so

one interpretation about this is what

they're talking about is the asuba

practices or the practice of seeing the

different

parts of the body

so possessing form possessing the body

one sees the forms within the body

and so this is not me this is not mine

this is not myself and so on

that's one way of looking at it

and then in the second form the second

case it says not perceiving material

forms in oneself

one sees them outside

can you take out your heart and see it

from the outside

no no not

visualizing your

outside

this is talking about generally

the commentaries talk about it as casino

casino k-a-s-i-n-a

perceiving material forms in oneself

one sees form one sees forms outside

meaning one uses were you gonna say

something

it might be related to machinery number

one um

that happens where you are seeing the

different elements as they are and then

you conceive of yourself as them

or you conceive yourself in them or you

conceive yourself apart from them or you

conceive yourself

possessed of them

but here we're saying

not perceiving material forms in oneself

one sees them outside

so there's nothing about the

self-conception going on here

it could be like a charmel ground

meditation

so the traditional understanding of

casino is that you take the earth

element or you take the fire element you

take the water element or you take the

air element or you take the colors red

white

blue

yellow no

one of them but

you take some color you take some form

and then it's like you create an image a

circle a disk

and then you focus on that disk

and that's your gateway into getting

into jhana

or flame or water or whatever it might

be

so

the idea is that this casino allows you

to become super concentrated

and allows you to be very one-pointed

but if you look at the word kasina

that's the pali word

it comes from the sanskrit word

kritsna

n

k-r-i-t-s-n-a

and kritzna means to be hold

w-h-o-l-e to be expansive

so actually you're taking that and

you're expanding it

to experience

infinite space

that's when you go back to maja manika

one two one the buddha talks about the

earth and so on and so forth and he

expands it and experiences infinite

space

so actually casino is not about

concentrating it's about having an

expansive awareness

and then

that's the second liberation

thinking it is beautiful one becomes

intent on it that is the third

what could that be

yeah they call the for the fourth jhana

as the beautiful and it's intended upon

but there's another way of looking at it

is beautiful

it's the

liberation of mine through the

brahmaviharas

because they are the beautiful loving

kindness

compassion

uh joy and equanimity

so that's the third thinking it is

beautiful one becomes intent on it

by completely transcending all

perceptions of matter

by the vanishing of the perception of

sense reactions

and by non-attention to the perception

of variety that's the perception of

diversity

that we're talking about

thinking space is infinite one enters

and abides in the sphere of infinite

space

that is the fourth liberation

by transcending the sphere of infinite

space thinking consciousness is infinite

one enters and abides in the sphere of

infinite consciousness that is the fifth

liberation

by transcending the sphere of infinite

consciousness thinking there is no thing

one enters and abides in the sphere of

no thingness

that is the sixth liberation

by transcending the sphere of no

thingness

one reaches and abides in the sphere of

neither perception nor non-perception

that is the seventh

liberation by transcending the sphere of

neither perception nor non-perception

one enters and abides in the cessation

of perception feeling and consciousness

that is the eighth liberation

ananda when once a monk attains

these eight liberations in forward order

in reverse order and in forward and

reverse order entering them and emerging

from them as and when

and for as long as they wish

and has gained by their own super

knowledge here and now

the destruction of the corruptions and

the uncorrupted liberation

of heart

and the liberation by wisdom

that monk is called

liberated both ways

and ananda there is no other

way of both ways liberated that is more

excellent or perfect than this

thus the lord spoke and the venerable

ananda rejoiced and was delighted at his

words

any last questions

okay let's share some merit

may suffering ones be suffering free may

the virus fearless be

may the grieving shed all grief

may all beings find relief

may all beings share this merit that we

have thus acquired for the acquisition

of all kinds of happiness many beings

inhabiting space and earth devas and

nagas of mighty power share this merit

of ours

may they long protect the buddha's

dispensations

[Music]

you

[Music]

so

[Music]

so

today we will

finish what we started yesterday

which is uh

majuminikaya 15

maha nida

the great discourse on origination

big nikaya

good you guys are listening

no

uh

so before i continue yesterday i was

talking about feeling

and i asked can you six our feeling

you cannot sticks are the experience

that happens through the process of

feeling

but you can six are the craving

or the aversion to that experience

you just

to clarify

that you yes

your six are in your own

reaction

yeah

but you ever you can six hour craving

you can six our clinging

but you can't actually six are an

experience you can like

right now you're listening to me you

cannot six here six are

your way out of this diamond talk

well

let's let's let's remember that 6r is

not

eliminating anything yeah

recognizing that something is there

and

releasing your attention

yeah

and then you're relaxing the craving or

resistance if there is

because at certain points

sicks are the feeling the moment you

feel boom

you release

and of course you're releasing the

craving that arose with it

but

you know that feeling will disappear

immediately

and

and then gradually you get to where the

contact just happens and

you know and then

you're in this subtle level now

and that's where you have that

experience of in the scene there is only

the scene

and so on

so

we're going to finish

uh tiga

there are seven stations of

consciousness and two realms

which are the seven

there are beings different in body and

different in perception

such as human beings

some devas and some in states of woe

so this particular station of

consciousness is the sensual realm

there's different

beings

there's different perceptions

for example we can

through our human eye see certain

things and hear certain things

but

rex and duke i guess rex maybe not so

much but

they can hear things farther than we can

or a bird certain kinds of birds can see

certain kinds of light

and so on so

different in perception

now yesterday we brought up the

idea of the hell realms

and so in the hell realms

you can't experience pleasant feeling

it's all unpleasant it's all

very terrible

so your

nervous system as it war is geared to

experience more pain than anything else

and then that changes as you go through

the different

different realms within the sensual

uh what would you say the sensual

category of realms

there are beings in different body a

different in body and alike in

perception

such as

the devas of brahma's retinue

born there on account of having attained

the first jhana

so here it says there are beings

different in body and alike in

perception what is the perception what

is that they they

experience and perceive in the first

brahmaloka

the first channel the factors of the

first channel you have thinking and

examining thought

you have joy coming up you have sukkah

coming up

not the cat sukkah the

the comfort

so

but they're different in body why is

that

because in the first promo realm we have

the

brahma being the maha brahma being

within this and then we have brahma's

retinue

and we have the

purohitas and all the other different

kinds of categories of brahma beings

within this first brahma being

there are beings alike in body

and different in perception

such as the abhasara devas

so here it says that there are beings

alike in body but different in

perception

so the abbas are beings are the second

brahmaloka so what would they experience

second genre

but they do some beings experience it

differently

there might be still

some

uh

thinking going on some process of

verbalizing going on there so there is a

suta in which

anuruddha is talking about these beings

and he talks about the abhassar beings

and within the apostolate beings there

are certain kinds of beings

which are

lower there's three categories of beings

who have the same kind of perception of

the factors of the second channel but

there's a fourth category which have a

have slight verbalizations going on

and then

they have the same body that is to say

they have the same

experience of the body they have the

same kind of body the same type of body

that is to say

the glowing and so on and so forth

they're made out of

some form of light

so whatever i'm saying right now with

regards to the seven

stations of consciousness

it's interesting information it's not

like you really

need to know this stuff it's not like

you really need to it's not going to be

a test

right but it's an interesting

idea of understanding how it correlates

to the genres and the experiences in

psychology

in each life in one life

that is the third station

there are beings alike in body and alike

in perception

such as the subha kina devas

so subha kina are one

level higher than the apostle so they

experience the same factors of the third

genome all of them

and they're also the same in terms of

their body same level of glow and so on

and so forth they have a different kind

of glow than the abhassar beings but

they're all

basically the same

and when you go to these realms

these beings are basically just blissed

out

right they're feeding on bliss

right so you can't you can't disturb

them they just

you know bliss addicts

you know so they're just like

feeding on it and that that's their fuel

and once that is over that karma is over

that's it that's the end of that life in

that particular brahmaloka and whatever

karma is there will take them to their

next life

that is the fourth station

there are beings who have completely

transcended all perception of matter

by vanishing of the perception of sense

reactions

and by non-attention to the perception

of variety

thinking space is infinite

they have attained to the sphere of

infinite space

that is the fifth station

so in infinite space there is there are

brahma beings there are beings who are

experiencing infinite space but they

don't have a form

they only have mentality there they only

have the contact the feeling the

perception

intention and attention

and the experience of spaciousness

infinite space

there are beings who by transcending the

sphere of infinite space

thinking consciousness is infinite have

attained to the sphere of infinite

consciousness

that is the sixth station

so here what happens is

there are beings who are again formless

there's no form but what they experience

is the arising and passing away of

consciousness dependent upon contact

so what they experience here is not

through the six not to the five physical

sense basis there's only mind and so

whatever they're experiencing is the

arising and passing away of mental karma

in the form of arising and passing away

of

minded consciousness or mental

consciousness

and then when that fuel is spent

then whatever karma is there will take

them to

a different realm

there are beings who having transcended

the sphere of infinite consciousness

thinking there is no thing have attained

to the sphere of no thinness

that is the seventh station of

consciousness

so here

these beings are trans have transcended

infinite space and infinite

consciousness

and are perceiving nothing

there's a perception of nothing there's

contact with the idea and concept of

nothing there's feeling of nothing

there's perception of nothing there's

nothing going on

for many many many many many many

many trillions and trillions and

trillions and trillions

of years

that's a long time

and then

the two realms

are the realm of unconscious beings

and secondly the realm of neither

perception nor non-perception

the realm of unconscious beings

is within the vicinity of the form

realms

within the vicinity of the fourth form

realm

so that means that there are they have a

body

but they're unconscious

there's nothing going on in there

there's no perception there's no feeling

there's no consciousness

doesn't mean that they're experiencing

cessation of perception feeling and

consciousness their mind is just in a

experience of suspended animation

and whatever

karma arises whatever thought arises at

the end of that life will then determine

their next life

so it's like somebody who has gone into

suspended animation

passes away and then appears in the

realm of the unconscious beings

and neither perception or non-perception

there are beings there in this realm

who are not exactly experiencing

perception nor non-perception

right

so they're experiencing what you would

experience in neither perception or

non-perception

but there's no

way to understand what factors are

available there or what factors are

functioning exactly there so the way to

get to this state obviously is somebody

who experiences neither perception or

non-perception

and there's no sense of intention when a

person

let's say in this life

passes on

there's no intention that goes on but

there's still some fuel for karma

there's still some clinging going on and

it will cling to this idea of neither

perception or non-perception and then

take them to

the realm of neither perception or

non-perception

now ananda as regards to this first

station of consciousness

with difference of body and difference

of perception

as in the case of human beings and so on

if anyone were to understand it its

origin its cessation its attraction and

its peril

and the deliverance from it

would it be fitting for him to take

pleasure in it

so in other words if you knew

that this realm of human existence

and the sixth sensual heavens and

basically the entire kama datu as it's

called kamadatu is

the category of sensual realms

you understand if you understood

that

they arose because of causes and

conditions

and because they are conditioned

they are also bound to cease therefore

they are impermanent if you understood

what is it that attracts beings to these

realms and what is the danger in that

and then you understood what is the

deliverance from it

would a person would it be fitting for

fitting for them to take pleasure in

that realm

knowing that pleasant feeling is

impermanent in those realms

would it make sense

no and so as regards to the other

stations and the two spheres likewise

would it make sense

even though those realms are many many

many many trillions of years

of existence they still have an end and

they're still conditioned

and still karma arises from them

would it be fitting to take pleasure in

them

no

ananda

in so far as a monk having known as they

really are

these seven stations of consciousness

and these two spheres

their origin

and cessation their attraction and peril

is freed without attachment

that monk ananda is called one who is

liberated by

wisdom

so

this might be an interesting time to

talk about that so we have liberated by

wisdom

is one category

there are these seven types of people

what's seven

there is one who is the faith follower

there is one who is the dhamma follower

there is one who is

liberated by faith there is one who is

attained to view

there is one who is

liberated by wisdom there's one who is

the body witness and there's one who is

liberated both ways

so the faith follower according to the

suit as the faith follower has

or the commentaries of that suta

actually because it's never really

described what these different types of

people are

but there are commentaries and bodhi has

his own ideas about it but the idea is

with a faith follower and the dhamma

follower they become stream enters with

path

they haven't yet

had the fruition

and the way in which they are our faith

follower or dhamma follower the faith

follower has

the faith faculty the faculty of faith

strengthened in them the dharma follower

has the faculty of wisdom strengthened

in them

so there's the five faculties there's

faith there's energy there's mindfulness

there's collectedness and there's

wisdom

so maybe another way to understand this

i'm putting it out here and maybe if you

want we can discuss it is the idea that

the faith follower is one upon hearing

not having gone through janus

one upon hearing the dharma

experiences stream entry

and then someone who

goes through the path of the janus

and then sees the arising and passing

way of things and experiences

the

destruction of the three feathers

is one who is a dhamma follow one who is

a stream enter

but not yet with fruition

that's one way to look at it

any comments

yeah i mean it's hard to

you know faith follower he hears it and

he attains i mean that's got to be a lot

of wisdom there yeah

however on the other hand the faith

follower already has confidence in the

smith

and the mind is set toward that and it's

following precepts and it's like ready

but the

followers somebody

maybe not like that but

so you're saying with the faith follower

they take everything just as is and so

they have wisdom there yeah they're not

skeptical

like oh no that can't be that they're

actually going okay that's what it is

yeah and with the dharma follower they

have to see for themselves they have to

actually

go through the process

yeah because in some suddens it talks

about the dhamma follower as one who

sees the impermanence of states

and so seeing so

they then attain streamlined training

yeah

there are ananda these eight liberations

what are they

now the buddha is talking about

liberation is not in the sense of

liberation of the mind in a permanent

sense

like you would have with attainments

but liberation of the mind in terms of

janus

because when you're in jhana you're

temporarily liberated from

the hindrances from unwholesome states

of mind

possessing form one sees form

that is the first liberation

not perceiving material forms in oneself

one sees them

outside that is the second liberation

so it says possessing form one sees

forms

does that sound like the first giant to

you guys

that's what i'm asking you guys what do

you think

possessing form one sees forms

i mean it could be or

it could be monday i mean

if you have forms you see forms whether

it's mundane or

super monday

so

one interpretation about this is what

they're talking about is the asuba

practices or the practice of seeing the

different

parts of the body

so possessing form possessing the body

one sees the forms within the body

and so this is not me this is not mine

this is not myself and so on

that's one way of looking at it

and then in the second form the second

case it says not perceiving material

forms in oneself

one sees them outside

can you take out your heart and see it

from the outside

no no not

visualizing your

outside

this is talking about generally

the commentaries talk about it as casino

casino k-a-s-i-n-a

perceiving material forms in oneself

one sees form one sees forms outside

meaning one uses were you gonna say

something

it might be related to machinery number

one um

that happens where you are seeing the

different elements as they are and then

you conceive of yourself as them

or you conceive yourself in them or you

conceive yourself apart from them or you

conceive yourself

possessed of them

but here we're saying

not perceiving material forms in oneself

one sees them outside

so there's nothing about the

self-conception going on here

it could be like a charmel ground

meditation

so the traditional understanding of

casino is that you take the earth

element or you take the fire element you

take the water element or you take the

air element or you take the colors red

white

blue

yellow no

one of them but

you take some color you take some form

and then it's like you create an image a

circle a disk

and then you focus on that disk

and that's your gateway into getting

into jhana

or flame or water or whatever it might

be

so

the idea is that this casino allows you

to become super concentrated

and allows you to be very one-pointed

but if you look at the word kasina

that's the pali word

it comes from the sanskrit word

kritsna

n

k-r-i-t-s-n-a

and kritzna means to be hold

w-h-o-l-e to be expansive

so actually you're taking that and

you're expanding it

to experience

infinite space

that's when you go back to maja manika

one two one the buddha talks about the

earth and so on and so forth and he

expands it and experiences infinite

space

so actually casino is not about

concentrating it's about having an

expansive awareness

and then

that's the second liberation

thinking it is beautiful one becomes

intent on it that is the third

what could that be

yeah they call the for the fourth jhana

as the beautiful and it's intended upon

but there's another way of looking at it

is beautiful

it's the

liberation of mine through the

brahmaviharas

because they are the beautiful loving

kindness

compassion

uh joy and equanimity

so that's the third thinking it is

beautiful one becomes intent on it

by completely transcending all

perceptions of matter

by the vanishing of the perception of

sense reactions

and by non-attention to the perception

of variety that's the perception of

diversity

that we're talking about

thinking space is infinite one enters

and abides in the sphere of infinite

space

that is the fourth liberation

by transcending the sphere of infinite

space thinking consciousness is infinite

one enters and abides in the sphere of

infinite consciousness that is the fifth

liberation

by transcending the sphere of infinite

consciousness thinking there is no thing

one enters and abides in the sphere of

no thingness

that is the sixth liberation

by transcending the sphere of no

thingness

one reaches and abides in the sphere of

neither perception nor non-perception

that is the seventh

liberation by transcending the sphere of

neither perception nor non-perception

one enters and abides in the cessation

of perception feeling and consciousness

that is the eighth liberation

ananda when once a monk attains

these eight liberations in forward order

in reverse order and in forward and

reverse order entering them and emerging

from them as and when

and for as long as they wish

and has gained by their own super

knowledge here and now

the destruction of the corruptions and

the uncorrupted liberation

of heart

and the liberation by wisdom

that monk is called

liberated both ways

and ananda there is no other

way of both ways liberated that is more

excellent or perfect than this

thus the lord spoke and the venerable

ananda rejoiced and was delighted at his

words

any last questions

okay let's share some merit

may suffering ones be suffering free may

the virus fearless be

may the grieving shed all grief

may all beings find relief

may all beings share this merit that we

have thus acquired for the acquisition

of all kinds of happiness many beings

inhabiting space and earth devas and

nagas of mighty power share this merit

of ours

may they long protect the buddha's

dispensations

[Music]

you