From: https://youtube.com/watch?v=EkFbf4Aq3QA
Context: Throughout this transcript, Bhante Vimalaramsi is the speaker unless otherwise indicated.
you
okay the discourse tonight is the true
lasat Raqqah suit the shorter discourse
to sachika this number 35 before we get
started
sat Rica was a person that was real good
in debating and he would go around to
all of these different teachers that
were somewhat popular in India at the
time and he would argue with them and he
would try to get them to get unbalanced
and angry and and that sort of thing so
he decided he was going to do that to
the Buddha thus if I heard on one
occasion the blessed one was living in
at Visalli in the great wood in the hall
with the peaked roof now on that
occasion sachika then he got the son was
staying at vesali
he was a debater and clever speaker
regarded by many as a saint he was
making a statement before the Visalli
assembly
I see no recluse or Brahman the head of
an order the head of a group the teacher
of a group even one claiming to be
accomplished and fully awakened who
would not shake shiver and tremble and
sweat under the armpits if he were to
engage and debate with me even if I were
to engage a senseless post and debate it
would shake shiver and tremble
if it were to engage and debate with me
that's pride so what shall I say of a
human being then when it was morning the
venerable AUSA G dressed and taking his
bowl and outer robe went into vesali
four homes as sachika then he got the
son was walking and wandering for
exercise in this alley he saw the
venerable AUSA G coming in the distance
and went up to him and exchanged
readings with him when this courteous
and amiable talk was finished sachika
then he got the son stood at one side
and said to him master
ASSA G how does the Rekluse Gautama
discipline his disciples and how is the
Rekluse Gautam --is instruction usually
presented to his disciples this is how
the Blessed One disciplines his
disciples ASSA G are the sachika and
this is how the Blessed One and
instruction is usually presented to his
disciples monks material form is
impermanent feeling is impermanent
perception is impermanent formations are
impermanent consciousness is impermanent
monks material form is not self feeling
is not self or we could change that to
impersonal perception is impersonal
formations are impersonal consciousness
is impersonal all formations are
impermanent all things are impersonal
that is how the blessed one disciplines
his disciples and that is how the
Blessed ones instruction is usually
presented to his disciples if we have
heard what the Rekluse Gautama asserts
we have indeed heard what is
disagreeable perhaps some time or other
we might meet master Gautama and have
some conversation with him perhaps we
might detach him from that evil view now
at that time 500 lack of ease had met
together in an assembly hall for some
business or other then sachika then they
got the son went to them and said come
forth good luck of ease come forth today
there will be some conversation between
me and the recluse Gautama if the
recluse Gautama maintains before me what
he has maintained before one of his
famous disciples the monk named hostage
he then just as a strong man might cease
a long-haired Ram by the hair and
dragged him to and dragged him fro and
dragged him roundabout so in debate I
will drag the recluse Gautama to and
drag and fro and drag him roundabout
just as a strong brewer's workman might
throw a brewers sieve into the deep
water tank
and take it by its corners drag it to
and drag it fro and drag it roundabout
so in debate I will drag the Rekluse
Gautama to and drag and fro and drag him
roundabout just as a strong Brewers
mixer might take a strainer by the
corners and shake it down and shake it
up and thump it about so in debate I
will shake the Rekluse Gautama down and
shake him up and thump him about yeah
you can see what's gonna happen and just
as a 60 year old elephant might plunge
into a deep pond and enjoy playing the
game of hemp washing so I shall enjoy
playing the game of hemp washing with
the recluse Gautama come forth good lack
of ease come forth today there will be
some conversation between me and the
recluse Gautama thereupon some lack of
ease said who is the recluse Gautama
that he could refute sachika than he got
the sons assertions on the contrary
sachika the Marathas son will refute the
recluse gotama's assertion and some
luckabee said who is sachika than they
got the son that he could refute the
reek the Blessed ones assertions on the
contrary the Blessed one will refute
such a kathan he got the sons assertions
then sachika the nagata's son went with
500 lack of ease to the hall with the
peaked roof
in the great wood now on that occasion a
number of monks were walking up and down
in the open then sachika then he got the
Sun went up to them and asked where is
master go Gautama staying now sirs we
want to see master Gautama the blessed
one has entered the great wood sachika
and is sitting at the root of a tree for
the days abiding then sachika then he
got the son together with a large
following of lek Ovie's entered the
great wood and went to the blessed one
he exchanged greetings with the blessed
one and after this courteous and amiable
talk was finished sat down at one side
some of the lek of ease paid homage to
the blessed one and sat down at one side
that means they nailed to him some
exchange greetings with him
and when this courteous and amiable talk
was finished sat down at one side some
extended their hands and reverential
salutation towards the blessed one and
sat down at one side some pronounced
their name and clan in the blessed one's
presence and sat down at one side some
kept silent and sat down at one side
when sachika the Nagata son had sat down
he said to the Blessed One I would like
to question master Gautama on a certain
point if master Gautam Oh would grant me
the favor of an answer to the
String ask what you like sachika
how does master Gautama discipline his
disciples and how is master Gautama is
instruction usually presented his
disciples this is how I discipline my
disciple sachika and this is how my
instruction is usually presented to my
disciples monks material form is
impermanent feeling is impermanent
perception is impermanent formations are
impermanent consciousness is impermanent
monks material form is impersonal
feeling is impersonal perception is
impersonal formations are impersonal
consciousness is impersonal all
formations are impermanent all things
are impersonal that is the way I
discipline my disciples and that is how
my instruction is usually presented to
my disciples a simile occurs to me
Master Gautama explain how it occurs to
you sachika
the Blessed One said just as when seeds
and plants whatever their kind reach
growth increase and maturation all do so
in dependence upon the earth based upon
the earth and just as when strenuous
work whatever their kind are done all
are done in dependence upon the earth
based upon the earth
so to master Gautama a person has
material form as self based upon
material form he produces merit or
demerit a person has feeling as self and
based upon feeling he produces merit or
demerit a person has perception as self
and based upon perception he produces
merit or demerit a person has formations
as self and based upon formation he
produces merit or demerit a person has
consciousness as self and based upon
consciousness he produces merit or
demerit so what is really saying is the
brahman belief in reincarnation okay and
he's trying to hold that up and listen
to what the Buddha does with this
sachika are you not asserting this
material form is myself feeling is my
self perception is my self formations
are my self consciousness is my self I
assert thus master Gautama material form
is myself feeling is myself
perception is myself formations are my
self consciousness is my self and so
does this great multitude and what has
this great multitude multitude to do
with you sachika
please confine yours
- your own assertion alone then Master
Gautama I assert thus material form is
self feeling as my self perception as my
self formations are my self
consciousness is my self in that case
site Raqqah I shall ask you a question
in return answer it as you choose what
do you think would a head anointed noble
King for example king pasenadi of
Kassala were king ajatasattu of magadha
exercised the power of his own realm to
execute those who should be executed to
find those who should be fined and to
banish those who should be banished
master Gautama a head anointed noble
King for example king pasenadi of Kosala
or king ajatasattu of magadha would
exercise the power in his own realm to
exercise or to execute excuse me those
who should be executed to find those who
should be fined to banish those who
should be banished for even these
oligarchic communities and societies
such as the vagine' the Malians
exercised the power in their own realm
to execute those who should be executed
to find those who should be fined and to
banish those who should be banished so
all the more so should had anointed
noble Kings such as king pasenadi of
Kosala working ijat aside - of
ha he would exercise it master vote
tonight he would be worthy to exercise
it now it starts to get interesting
what do you think such akka when you say
thus material form is myself did you
exercise any such power over that
material form as to say let my form be
thus let my form not be this when this
was said sachika then he got the son was
silent a second time the Blessed one
asked the same question and a second
time sachika then he got the son was
silent when the Blessed then the Blessed
One said to him sachika
now answer now now is not the time to be
silent if anybody went ask a reasonable
question up to the third time by the
target still does not answer his head
splits into seven pieces there and then
oh it's a good idea to answer it now on
that occasion a thunderbolt wielding
spirit holding an iron Thunderbolt that
burned and blazed and glowed appeared in
the air above sachika than they got the
Sun thinking if sachika then he got the
Sun women ask a reasonable question up
to the third time by the Blessed One
still does not answer I shall split his
head into seven pieces here and now the
Blessed One saw the Thunderbolt wielding
spirit and so did sachika than they got
the Sun but nobody else saw it then
sachika then he got the Sun was
frightened alarmed and terrified seeking
his refuge Asylum and refuge seeking his
shelter Asylum and refuge in the Blessed
One himself he said ask me master
Gautama I will answer that was a close
one
what do you think Sarika when you say
this material form is myself do you
exercise any such power over that
material form as to say let my form be
thus let my form not be thus no master
Gautama pay attention sachika pay
attention to how you reply what you said
afterwards does not agree with what you
said before nor does what you said
before agree with what you said
afterwards what do you
Thanks our chica when you say this
feeling is myself do you exercise any
such power over that feeling as to say
let my feeling be thus let my feeling
not be thus that's what you try to do
with some pains have come up in it
no master Gautama pay attention sachika
pay attention to how you reply what you
said afterwards does not agree with what
you said before nor does what you said
before agree with what you said
afterwards what do you think sachika
when you say perception is my self
do you exercise any power over that
perception as to say let my perception
be thus let my perception not be thus
and that's what happens when you have
some hindrances come up
no master Gautama pay attention sachika
pay attention to how you reply what you
said afterwards does not agree with what
you said before nor does what you said
before agree with what she said
afterwards what do you think Sachiko
when you say thus formations are myself
do you exercise any such power over
these formations as to say let my
formations be thus let my formations not
be thus no master Gautama
pay attention sachika pay attention to
how you reply what you said afterwards
does not agree with what you said before
nor does what you said before agree with
what you said afterwards
what do you thanks at Raqqah when you
say this consciousness is my self who
takes their thoughts personally tries to
make them be the way they want to hmm
okay and over that consciousness as to
say let my consciousness be thus let my
consciousness not be thus no master
Gautama pay attention sachika pay
attention to how you reply what you said
afterwards does not agree with what you
said before nor does what you said
before agree with what you said
afterwards what do you think sachika is
material form permanent or impermanent
impermanent Master Gautama is what is
impermanent suffering or happiness
suffering Master Gautama is what is
impermanent suffering and subject to
change fit to be regarded thus this is
mine this I am this is my self no master
Gautama what do you think sachika
is feeling permanent or impermanent
impermanent Master Gautama is what is
impermanent suffering or happiness
suffering Master
go tomorrow is what is impermanent
suffering and subject to change fit to
be regarded thus this is mine this I am
this is my self no master Gautama what
do you think sachika is perception
permanent or impermanent impermanent
Master Gautama is what is impermanent
suffering or happiness suffering Master
Gautama is what is impermanent suffering
and subject to change fit to be regarded
thus this is mine this I am this is my
self no master Gautama what do you think
sachika
our formations permanent or impermanent
impermanent Master Gautama is what is
impermanent suffering or happiness
suffering Master Gautama is what is
impermanent suffering and subject to
change fit to be regarded thus this is
mine this I am this is my self no master
Gautama is consciousness permanent or
impermanent impermanent Master Gautama
is what is impermanent suffering or
happiness suffering Master Gautama is
what is impermanent suffering and
subject to change fit to be regarded
thus this is mine this I am this is my
self no master Gautama what do you think
sachika when one adheres to suffering
resorts to
suffering holds to suffering and regards
what is suffering thus this is mine this
I am this is my self could one ever
fully understand suffering oneself or
abide with suffering utterly destroyed
interesting question an awful lot of
people that are practicing meditation
think the opposite they get into their
suffering they want you to suffer I know
because I experienced that for a long
time so the the real question here is
what do you think sachika when wanted
here's to suffering now we're talking
about merited right now
resorts to suffering holds to suffering
regards what is suffering thus if you
take it personally now he's refuting the
I am of everything I am that this I am
this is mine this is my self could one
of ever fully understand suffering when
you get caught in it now that's talking
about merit - but it's not directing it
directly saying narrow or abide with
suffering utterly destroyed so he's he's
talking about demerit and merit if it's
destroyed it's its merit right okay
how could one master Gautama no master
Gautama what do you think sachika that
being so do you not adhere to suffering
resort to suffering hold to suffering
and regard what is suffering as thus
this is mine this I am this is my self
how could I not if he doesn't understand
how to let go of craving as many people
that are practicing meditation don't
realize how can they let it go if they
don't recognize what it is how it arises
and how to let it go okay how could I
not recognize I'd be caught in suffering
master Gautama yes master Gautama it is
though a man needing heartwood seeking
heartwood wandering in search of
heartwood were to take a sharp axe and
enter the wood and there he would see a
large plane ten
a large plane tin trunk straight young
without a butt fruit bud core then he
would cut it down at the root cut off
the crown and unroll the leaf sheath but
as he went on unrolling the the leaf
sheath he would never even see any heart
SAP would let alone heartwood so to
sachika when you are pressed questioned
and crossed question by me a
about your own assertions you turn out
to be empty vacant and mistaken but it
was you who made this statement before
the vesali assembly
I see no Rekluse or brahmin head of an
order head of a group the teacher of a
group even one claiming to be
accomplished and fully awakened who
would not shake shiver and tremble sweat
under the armpits if he were to engage
in debate with me even if I were to
engage as senseless post and debate it
would shake shiver and tremble if it
were to engage in debate with me so what
shall I say of a human being now there
were drops of sweat on your forehead and
they have soaked through your upper road
and fallen to the ground but there's no
sweat on my body now the blessed one
uncovered his golden colored body before
the assembly when this was said sachika
then he got the sunset silent dismayed
with shoulders drooping and head down
glum without response that'll teach him
then do Mucca the son of the lek of ease
seeing sachika then he got the son in
such a condition said to the Blessed One
assembly a assembly occurs to me master
Gautama explained how it occurs to you
do matka suppose venerable sir not far
from a village or town there was a pond
with a crab in
and then a party of boys or girls went
from the town or village to the pond
went into the water and pulled the crab
out of the water and they put it on dry
land and whenever the crab extended a
leg they would cut it off and broke it
and smashed it with sticks and stones so
that the crab with all his legs cut off
broken and smashed would be unable to
get back to the pond as before so to all
sachika then he got the sons contortions
writhings and vacillations have been cut
off broken and smashed by the blessed
one and now he cannot get near the
blessed one again for the purpose of
debate when this was said sachika then
he got the son told him wait Bhumika
wait you are not speak we are not
speaking with you here we are speaking
with master Gautama then he said let be
master Gautama that talk of ours of
other ordinary recluses and brahmins it
was mere prattle but in what way is a
disciple of master Gautama one who
carries out his instructions who
responds to his advice who has crossed
beyond doubt become free from perplexity
gained intrepidity and become
independent of other
in the teachers breathe dispensation
here sachika any kind of material form
whatever whether past future or present
internal or external gross or subtle
inferior or superior far or near a
disciple of mine sees all material form
as it actually is with proper wisdom
thus this is not mine this I am NOT this
is not my self
any sort any kind of feeling whatever
whether past future or present internal
or external gross or subtle inferior or
superior far or near a disciple sees
that disciple of mine sees all feeling
as it actually is with proper wisdom
thus this is not mine this I am NOT this
is not my self
here's a check any kind of perception
whatever whether past future or present
internal or external gross or subtle
inferior or superior far or near a
disciple of mine sees all perception as
it actually is with proper wisdom thus
this is not mine this I am NOT this is
not my self
here's a chica any kind of formation
whatever whether past future or present
internal or external gross or subtle
inferior or superior
or near a disciple of mine sees all
formations as they actually are with
proper wisdom thus this is not mine this
I am NOT this is not my self
here's I took any kind of consciousness
whatever whether past future or present
internal or external gross or subtle
inferior or superior far or near a
disciple of mine sees all consciousness
as it actually is with proper wisdom
thus this is not mine this I am NOT this
is not my self it is in this way that a
disciple of mine is one who carries out
my instruction who responds to my advice
who has crossed beyond doubt free from
perplexity gained and rapidity and
become independent of others in the
teachers dispensation being independent
of others is actually saying they are
their own teacher master Gautama in what
way is a monk and our hot with taints
destroyed one who has lived the holy
life done what had to be done laid down
the burden reached his own goal
destroyed the fetters of being and is
completely liberated through final
knowledge here's a took any kind of
material form whatever whether past
future or present
ternal or external gross or subtle
inferior or superior far or near a monk
has seen all material form as it
actually is with proper wisdom thus this
is not mine this I am NOT this is not my
self and through not craving and
flinging he is liberated any kind of
feeling whatever whether past future or
present internal or external gross or
subtle inferior or superior far or near
a monk has seen all feeling as it
actually is with proper wisdom thus this
is not mine this I am NOT this is not my
self and through not craving and
clinging he is liberated any kind of
perception whatever whether past future
or present internal or external gross or
subtle inferior or superior far or near
a monk has seen all perception as it
actually is with proper wisdom thus this
is not mine this I am NOT this is not my
self
and through not craving and clinging he
is liberated here sachika
any kind of formation whatever whether
past future or present internal or
external gross or subtle inferior or
superior far or near a monk has seen all
formations as
they actually are with proper wisdom
thus this is not mine this I am NOT this
is not my self
and through not craving and clinging he
has liberated any kind of consciousness
whatever whether past future or present
internal or external gross or subtle
inferior or superior far or near a monk
has seen all consciousness as it
actually is with proper wisdom thus this
is not mine this I am NOT this is not my
self
and through not craving and clinging he
is liberated it is in this way that a
monk is in Hara hot with a taint
destroyed one who has lived the holy
life done what had to be done laid down
the burden reached his own goal
destroyed the fetters of being and has
completely liberated through final
knowledge that's the kind of statement
that happens automatically in your mind
when you become a not when a monk's mine
is thus liberated he possesses three
unsurpassable qualities unsurpassable
vision unsurpassable practice and
unsurpassable deliverance when a monk is
thus liberated he still honors respects
Revere's and venerates that's a target
of us the Blessed One is awakened and he
teaches the Dhamma for
the sake of awakening the Blessed One is
tamed and he teaches the Dhamma for
taming oneself the Blessed One is at
peace and he teaches the Dhamma for the
sake of peace the Blessed One had
crossed over he teaches the Dhamma for
crossing over the Blessed One has
attained Nirvana and he teaches the
Dhamma for attaining Nibbana when this
was said that he got the sachika then he
got the son replied master Gautama we
were bold and impudent and thinking that
we could attack master Gautama and
debate a man might it might attack a mad
elephant and find safety yet he could
not attack master Gautama and find
safety a man might attack a blazing mass
of fire and find safety yet he could not
attack master Gautama and find safety a
man might attack a terrible poisonous
snake and find safety yet he could not
attack master go to mind find safety we
were bold and impudent and thinking we
could attack master go to my Inn debate
let the Blessed One together with the
Sangha of monks consent to accept
tomorrow's meal from me the Blessed One
consented in silence then knowing that
the Blessed One had consented sachika
then he got the son addressed the lack
of ease here me lack of ease the recluse
Gautama together with the Sangha of good
monks
has been invited by me for tomorrow's
meal you may bring to me whatever you
think would be suitable for him he's
asking him to donate the food then when
it was night and it had ended the lack
of ease brought 500 ceremonial dishes of
milk rice as a gift of food I've told
this story quite a few times there's two
different kinds of milk rice one is just
cooking the rice and milk okay and they
throw sugar in it and things like that
but I had something offered to me that
was really really special when they make
rice from milk what they do is they
plant the best rice they could find and
they only take milk for the rice dirt
nourishment in other words it's just a
field of milk with rice popping up and
then they take all of that grain and
they've replanted with milk in the field
and then they take that grain and they
replant it again with milk in the field
and I was offered a bowl of that and it
was unbelievable it was really something
special I have no idea why they offered
it to me but they I was with some other
monks that were very famous in Burma and
I just happened to be with them at the
right time so
of course laying down the burden of
being reborn again get off the wheel
there's there's an interesting thing
about this a lot of people are very
confused about me Bona and what happens
when you get off the wheel and B you
become an RA and get off the wheel in
the end retrim nakiya
there's a short verse that says suppose
you were at the beach and you built a
sand castle and a wave came and knocked
it all down you could never put that
sandcastle together again in exactly the
same way now what they're finding out
about space is that there is some
consciousness in space and there are
some beings that come from that
consciousness that start to grow they're
very small they don't need to have air
but it is live beings so the space is
not empty and to my way of thinking the
only thing that's holding us together is
craving and ignorance okay when you
become an art hot and you die all of
these different aggregates are still
there because nothing can come from
nothing but these aggregates are still
there but you can never be put together
in the same way again and it seems it
seems at least reasonable
that this can be like that it's a
conglomeration of things that well but
when you become a Nara hot you don't
have any more craving if there's no more
craving there's no more rebirth so when
you die you still have your five
aggregates as an are hot but you don't
have any craving or clinging so
basically an Arad is somebody that's
coming from their intuition with their
connection to the universe as it were
and that's the advantage of being around
in our hot they're gonna give you the
straight the straight skinny they're
gonna give you the straight answers and
they turn out to be magnificent teachers
if they feel like doing that some some
just go off and they don't see people
again and and then they die whenever
they die but a lot of the our hearts
they spend their time helping other
people to attain nirvana
it is about the graving and blinging if
you don't have anything craving you're
not making any bad merit okay there's
only good merit that you're making until
you die absolutely I look for 12 years
to see if I could find one and I never
did I went to a lot of claims of ära
Hachi
there's one month that he uses the name
are Sri Lanka and one of my students
went and spent some time with him and
what his teaching was was to be happy
and he was always stressing smiling
laughing and helping other people but he
got heavily criticised for claiming to
be in our heart because he wasn't
well that's kind of a tricky question
there are people that can become our
hats or pacheco buddhas when there is
not a samisen buddha around they can't
be in the buddha era and Patrika buddhas
they stress to people when they see them
they pretty much hide out but they have
to go out for alms round and whenever
they see someone that's it's giving them
some alms food they can ask questions
and they're only going to talk about the
importance of keeping your precepts and
practicing your generosity and things
like that so yes there are people that
can become our hats not in the buddha
era there are a lot more that become our
hats and the buddha era but the buddha
said this era was going to last about
5